Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[HockeyMom]

Okay-

We can all agree that several people here have faced some sort of discrimination, oppression, or just tough times in their lives based on their race, religion, sex-or whatever-based on some reason that they have no control over. It's not fair.

I think that the most important thing is- how do you react to it? Do you stand up and say, that's not right? Do you spend years and years harboring resent and anger, trying to ruthlessly revenge what happened at any cost? Do you say-okay, this happened, how can I make my life better from it? How do I make it better for those people who will follow after me so they don't suffer the same fate as me? Do you blame the person that did it to you and just stop moving forward because something happened to you?

For me blaming someone else and resenting them, harboring that anger, and letting it hold you back-using it as an excuse to stop living is taking the easy way out. You can wallow in self-pity for years, but in the end-you will have lost because you LET them beat you....you let it consume so much of your energy that you LET them win.

There was a time that I was so angry about something that had happened, I would laugh when I thought about forgiving the people that had done it to me.....I really thought it would be a cold day in hell. Well, I went ice skating in hell about a year ago, cause it was awful cold. I moved on. Being angry about it and dwelling on it was taking up too much of my energy. My life is better because of it, I go to work everyday happy about what I do and I'm excited about it, and the people that followed behind me have it better off.

Accept that it happened, forgive the people that did it, and move on-make your life better.......you'll be a lot happier.

[Siouxmama]

Okay-

We can all agree that several people here have faced some sort of discrimination, oppression, or just tough times in their lives based on their race, religion, sex-or whatever-based on some reason that they have no control over. It's not fair.

I think that the most important thing is- how do you react to it? Do you stand up and say, that's not right? Do you spend years and years harboring resent and anger, trying to ruthlessly revenge what happened at any cost? Do you say-okay, this happened, how can I make my life better from it? How do I make it better for those people who will follow after me so they don't suffer the same fate as me? Do you blame the person that did it to you and just stop moving forward because something happened to you?

For me blaming someone else and resenting them, harboring that anger, and letting it hold you back-using it as an excuse to stop living is taking the easy way out. You can wallow in self-pity for years, but in the end-you will have lost because you LET them beat you....you let it consume so much of your energy that you LET them win.

There was a time that I was so angry about something that had happened, I would laugh when I thought about forgiving the people that had done it to me.....I really thought it would be a cold day in hell. Well, I went ice skating in hell about a year ago, cause it was awful cold. I moved on. Being angry about it and dwelling on it was taking up too much of my energy. My life is better because of it, I go to work everyday happy about what I do and I'm excited about it, and the people that followed behind me have it better off.

Accept that it happened, forgive the people that did it, and move on-make your life better.......you'll be a lot happier.

*clap clap clap clap clap clap*

Very nice post HockeyMom. I agree with you 100%

[Sioux-cia]

Okay-

We can all agree that several people here have faced some sort of discrimination, oppression, or just tough times in their lives based on their race, religion, sex-or whatever-based on some reason that they have no control over. It's not fair.

I think that the most important thing is- how do you react to it? Do you stand up and say, that's not right? Do you spend years and years harboring resent and anger, trying to ruthlessly revenge what happened at any cost? Do you say-okay, this happened, how can I make my life better from it? How do I make it better for those people who will follow after me so they don't suffer the same fate as me? Do you blame the person that did it to you and just stop moving forward because something happened to you?

For me blaming someone else and resenting them, harboring that anger, and letting it hold you back-using it as an excuse to stop living is taking the easy way out. You can wallow in self-pity for years, but in the end-you will have lost because you LET them beat you....you let it consume so much of your energy that you LET them win.

There was a time that I was so angry about something that had happened, I would laugh when I thought about forgiving the people that had done it to me.....I really thought it would be a cold day in hell. Well, I went ice skating in hell about a year ago, cause it was awful cold. I moved on. Being angry about it and dwelling on it was taking up too much of my energy. My life is better because of it, I go to work everyday happy about what I do and I'm excited about it, and the people that followed behind me have it better off.

Accept that it happened, forgive the people that did it, and move on-make your life better.......you'll be a lot happier.

Acceptance of the past, as the past, and moving forward in spite of the obstacles that another, life, etc. puts in front of us is what we are suppose to do. (see RW77's post)If we don't, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Some have to work twice as hard as others to move forward the same amount of distance. But if you want it, you'll do it regardless of the price. Lying around blaming the system, a name/logo, for the inequities in life and/or the injustices in life won't get you much these days, not even pity.

If ONE person could tell me how changing the Fighting Sioux name and logo is going to make the life or 'plight' of the Sioux people better, and by that I mean higher numbers of high school graduation, college/trade school graduation, reduction in teenage pregnancy, reduction of alcohol and drug abuse, decrease in domestic (spouse, elder, child) abuse, economic growth in addition to casinos on the reservations, I will be the first to change my stance. I will support the name change and I know others on this board will do so also. This question has been asked dozens if not thousands of times and has yet to be answered.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Undsportsfan,

You have had ample time to read the real feelings of people on this posting board and I can only assume that you do not find it a haven for the Klan or racists in general. To the contrary, the people on this website have tried to understand your points and carefully analyze them per their own claims of keeping the nickname. To that extent, is it not easy to see for your benefit and the benefit of the name changers that the most positive outcome of this whole event would be to side with the keepers of the name and use the raw numbers and positive emotion of the group to spread the culture of the native american well beyond North Dakota in the positive way already practiced? Possibly, enhance the education and understanding of all peoples as it pertains to the native american. Your insistence on the negative of the name and ultimately its removal will only provide you with a pyrrhic victory.

BobIwabuchiFan

[redwing77]

Here's an interesting thought:

Many people view being different as being able to avoid conformity and, hence, retain uniqueness and individuality. However, with this attitude comes solitude and a percieved sense of oppresion and injustice. These people see themselves as outsiders and unequal to the remainder who aren't in this "group." This is one of the reasons why many minorities are so willing to cry racism when things don't go their way or that they are offended and believe that those that they feel offended them should cater to the whim which they determine would "correct" the offense.

My argument is that the word "conformity" has a negative stigma because of the attached assumptions that go along with it that states that things will have to change, "the old ways" will have to be abandoned, they will stop being listened to, and they will not be allowed to think for themselves (Fahrenheit 451 for example). Change is NEVER recieved well by an entire group because some people can't handle it. So people embrace assumptions like the forced abandonment of tradition and past ideals (I'm talking about contempary times, not pre-civil rights movement) and they dig in their heels. When external entities or groups come in and try to assist them to make the changes, regardless of the size of such a change, they resist. And that leads to lashing out at symbolisms and imagery because they cannot handle being "just another American" or "just like everybody else."

Another aspect behind this whole thing is, at the same time, a positve aspect of Native American life. Native Americans, as a culture, have a strong and deep-seated respect for their elders. This is, as I said, a good thing. Something many Americans could learn about and use more. At the same time however, these elders are holding the Native American people back by clinging to past injustices and forcing those memories from the past into the forefront of the Native American younger generations (even if those younger generations are only on a relative scale, meaning a younger generation could still be above 30 years of age). This is a sad and unfortunate side affect of a very good societal belief structure.

Thoughts?

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Just for the record this is a leftist organization and I wouldn't consider it an objective source for your information.

Not so much leftist but more so hypocritical.

See the following NCAA sanctioned Seminole war chant with tomahawk chop.

Seminole War Chant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU-XXy99xVw...ted&search=

[ScottM]

Those silly Ivy Leaguers are at it again ...

Princeton Eats It

[dakotadan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU-XXy99xVw...ted&search=

Hey, don't blame them for accurately portraying American Indians. These 2 females are both apparently 1/8th Seminole and obviously approve of FSU's antics.

Obviously UND should be following FSU's lead. If only UND was as sensitive as them.

[Sioux-cia]

Hey, don't blame them for accurately portraying American Indians. These 2 females are both apparently 1/8th Seminole and obviously approve of FSU's antics.

Obviously UND should be following FSU's lead. If only UND was as sensitive as them.

That was the first time I saw the FSU tomahawk chop (and heard their 'chant'). I can see where someone who has never been to a hockey game and only saw a silent film or picture of the 'sieve' chant and arm motion would think it was a tomahawk chop. But, anyone who was interested in gathering accurate 'evidence' would go to a game and see/hear for themselves what the heck those students and fans are doing and saying and why they are doing it.

[Chewey]

Those silly Ivy Leaguers are at it again ...

Princeton Eats It

I don't see anything racist by using hyperbole and overstatement to drive home points. While it's ironic that the PC bastion of Princeton is being accused of racism, I do have some sympathy for them. Poets and writers of fiction watch out!!!!! Unless you write about PC subjects, you're at risk of being a "racist." I just experienced racism and hostility and abuse from two indian women last Saturday at the Gopher/Denver hockey game. I was wearing my favourite jacket, a Fort Berthold Community College jacket. My dad, a white man (OMFG!!!!!), taught there for a few years. As I was walking up the steps at the end of the game, the two women had apparently taken "offense" at a white guy wearing a wind-breaker like jacket with a beautiful design of an indian on the back and "FBCC" on the front. I was called a "racist bigot" and an "idiot". I promptly told them that they were the racists, that I was pleased that they enjoyed my jacket and that I was going to wear it even more now. The point is that many of the so-called "victims" are themselves the racists, including these two radicals. The radicals don't want anyone to have anything indian whether it's a coat displaying a tribal college or a bolo tie made of indian bead work (I have several of these). Another point is that bending over and giving in to these loons just perpetuates the racism that they themselves promote and emboldens them to continue their antics. The self-proclaimed arbiters of "racism" don't like to be called for the racists that they are.

[GeauxSioux]

Confronting society with science

Which is what much of the second half of the exhibit is about

[ScottM]

The videos of Indian lawyers and nurses and students describing their lives and then saying, "I am not a mascot,'' could be express-mailed to the University of North Dakota, which clings to its Fighting Sioux team name.

Yes, especially if they took advantage of the AI programs at UND to get their degrees, versus the U, Wisco, etc.

[PCM]

The videos of Indian lawyers and nurses and students describing their lives and then saying, "I am not a mascot,'' could be express-mailed to the University of North Dakota, which clings to its Fighting Sioux team name.

Do any of these people resemble the fictional Sioux warrior portrayed in UND's logo? If not, why would someone think that any of them were UND's team mascot?

I don't understand that line of reasoning. Perhaps someone can explain it to me.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

The videos of Indian lawyers and nurses and students describing their lives and then saying, "I am not a mascot,'' could be express-mailed to the University of North Dakota, which clings to its Fighting Sioux team name.

Any videos of Irish lawyers, nurses and students describing their lives and saying they aren't mascots? Greek lawyers, etc? For that matter, miners? Railroad workers?

Do any of these people resemble the fictional Sioux warrior portrayed in UND's logo? If not, why would someone think that any of them were UND's team mascot?

The same question could be asked of the Notre Dame leprachaun, the fictional Spartan warrior depicted by MSU or the fictional Trojan warrior used by Southern Cal.

The biggest question to be asked is if the moviemakers visited Florida to talk with the Seminoles.

Oddly enough, the entire article starts out with the idea that there is no such thing as race. And then goes on to talk to various "victims" who blame everything that has ever gone wrong in their lives on this non-existent factor. And this is being used to urge that sports logos these people don't agree with be changed, because they depict something that doesn't exist.

[GeauxSioux]

Here is an interesting twist...

UND group nominates NCAA for award

Members of the student group BRIDGES nominated the NCAA for the award as a way to say thank you for its work on the nickname issue, said Frank Sage, the group

[ScottM]

Members of the student group BRIDGES nominated the NCAA for the award as a way to say thank you for its work on the nickname issue, said Frank Sage, the group

[dagies]

[PCM]

To me this implies the ignorant attitude of the NCAA. Did they really think that issues of diversity and different points of view were somehow not allowed on this campus? What dorks.

I wonder what the NCAA thought about the ceremony honoring Sioux warrior Woodrow Wilson Keeble before Saturday's game at Engelstad Arena. That was a much better example of diversity and different points of view being represented at UND.

[dagies]

There's a quote in this story that I think is very relevant to the whole nickname discussion. The story itself has nothing to do with the nickname issue, but I wanted the source of the quote to be credited:

The power to cause guilt, shame or pity is a shady resource.

[siouxforeverbaby]

I wonder what the NCAA thought about the ceremony honoring Sioux warrior Woodrow Wilson Keeble before Saturday's game at Engelstad Arena. That was a much better example of diversity and different points of view being represented at UND.

I took pictures at it. not very good pictures mind you but still pictures. Got the e-mail to the NCAA?

[Goon]

[GeauxSioux]

Nickname that defines an era

The legacy of Charles Kupchella's presidency at UND will undoubtedly be tied in many minds with the recent history of the Fighting Sioux logo dispute.

Kupchella, who announced Thursday he will retire in one year, has been UND's president during eight years that saw the issue move from a campus dispute to a lawsuit against the NCAA with national implications.

If there was a change in Kupchella's personal attitude toward the logo, many speculate it happened in December 2000.

That's when UND benefactor Ralph Engelstad sent Kupchella and members of the State Board of Higher Education a letter, made public after a request by The Associated Press, stating he would abandon the then $85 million hockey arena he was then building and let what had been built deteriorate if Kupchella abandoned the Fighting Sioux nickname.

[yekcoh]

Forum Opinion

Today a UND student organization will lower itself to cheap-shot status by giving a representative of the NCAA an award as a way to say thank you for the NCAA

[PCM]

If there was a change in Kupchella's personal attitude toward the logo, many speculate it happened in December 2000.

It would be a shame if rather than speculating, the Herald might ask the man himself what happened because he's the only one who really knows. That's what I did. He'd also strongly disagree that the nickname issue defined his tenure at UND.

USCHO: One final question: When you accepted the job to be president of UND back in 1999, did you ever think that you would spend as much time as you have on this issue?

Kupchella: There's an assumption in your question that it's lots of time, and it really isn't. It seems like a lot more than it is because of the media and public interest in it. Of course, you could argue that any time spent on it is unfortunate. I don't happen to believe that. I think this is one of those classic issues that it's kind of not altogether bad to have it to sharpen minds on. Where's the boundary between social justice and political correctness? There are fundamental questions here such as: How big an opposition group you need before you change something? When does the majority not have control even when it's so large? These are some fundamental, interesting issues. There are those who say that it's disruptive of classrooms here. Hey, we're educating students about how to deal with a world that gets kind of fuzzy around the edges, and not all the answers are clear. There are good people with good arguments on both sides of almost anything you call an issue. So it's not bad at all that we

[Northcountry]

It may be meaningless, but I found the story on UMary basketball player Ray Graham changing his name to be interesting in an ironic sort of way. It may be only my personal bias that colors the story, but I think it poses some interseting questions.

Ray E. Graham was first recruited as a basketball player under the name Ray Taken Alive. When I read this story I wondered first if he was related to Ira and Jesse Taken Alive (Ira has tried twice to have the ND legislature enact legislation to force UND to drop the Sioux name and Jesse made GF Herald headlines when he transferred to USD to get away from the "hostile and abusive" environment of UND). If so, did that have anyting to do with his decision?

Secondly, I wondered how Mr. Graham's name change is received among American Indians? The article said that his immediate family had no problem with it, but what about the rest of his peers? I don't like to draw assumptions based on tidbits of information, but this article has opened up a world of speculation in my mind.