Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Diggler]

While you weren't specific, I'm assuming that this little outburst is somehow directed at me. I will inform you that I am no longer in school, and have graduated for some time now. Well employed using my Poli Sci degree, I might add. I just love how anyone who supports the Native Americans in there quest to rid UND of a racist logo will be ridiculed. I said a long time back that the Sioux name would be retired and I was right What I can't figure out is why we seemingly have refocused our attention from finding a new name that conveys what we are at UND to bickering over keeping the old name. BTW, since you aren't even a UND grad, I don't see where you even have a horse to race in this event.

It's a racist logo? Really? I can't only assume this logo is also racist. The guy has grey skin! No white guy has grey skin unless he's dead. That's a gross misrepresentation of your average Minuteman and UMass should be forced to get rid of that logo.

The Sioux name has been retired? Really? I must have missed that. Do you have a link? Thanks!

If you want the bickering to end, why don't you should stop arguing with us? Problem solved.

[Goon]

Wait a minute. His interests NATURALLY led him to nicknames?

Which part is natural? An undergrad in Computer Science? (The fact that he took that undergrad and went on to grad school for sociology is interesting in and of itself.) The grad work in Sociology?

Are we to assume that everyone with a BS from North Dakota in Computer Science who go on for a Masters or doctorate in Sociology should study "American Indian sports nicknames"??

That one is a head shaker, Computer science to Sociology. What it should say is his personal bias lead him to the American Indian Sports Names. Also, his studies in Computer Science lead him to studies in anarchy?

[LeftyZL]

Just found this article, not relating to the Sioux Name Issue, but relating to the Sioux People instead. Apparently, Lakota people are no longer U.S. Citizens: Lakota Indians Withdraw U.S. Treaties

[Oxbow6]

Just found this article, not relating to the Sioux Name Issue, but relating to the Sioux People instead. Apparently, Lakota people are no longer U.S. Citizens: Lakota Indians Withdraw U.S. Treaties

Interesting, but don't think for a second those NAs that want their independence from the US will cut off their cash flow from the government they are supposedly wanting independence from.

But I am sure TRex will have some scientific study as to why this is a legitimate right by those sited in the article?

[The Sicatoka]

Just found this article, not relating to the Sioux Name Issue, but relating to the Sioux People instead. Apparently, Lakota people are no longer U.S. Citizens: Lakota Indians Withdraw U.S. Treaties

With no treaty:

.... Doesn't that mean the US State Department would have to negotiate the Sioux nickname*?

and more importantly

.... Doesn't that mean we're still at war?

Where's William T. Sherman when you need him ....

The bad news for Ron McNeil (aka His Horse is Thunder): Today's 7th Cavalry has armor.

* states can't negotiate with foreign entities

[Chewey]

With no treaty:

.... Doesn't that mean the US State Department would have to negotiate the Sioux nickname*?

and more importantly

.... Doesn't that mean we're still at war?

Where's William T. Sherman when you need him ....

The bad news for Ron McNeil (aka His Horse is Thunder): Today's 7th Cavalry has armor.

* states can't negotiate with foreign entities

While I agree that the U S, in many respects, did not stick to the treaties with the Indians and while I understand that indians have suffered through the decades, it is thinking like this that only perpetuates the suffering of the indian people. I don't see how parting from the U.S. helps indians at all. Without federal money and with the political corruption that pervades many reservations, the indian people would only be worse off. Time to move through the anger and work within what you've got now even though you would rather things be different.

[The Sicatoka]

... it is delusional thinking like this that only perpetuates the suffering of the indian people.

You missed a word in there.

[ScottM]

The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months.

I take it the Iranians and Sudanese were busy?

[The Sicatoka]

I take it the Iranians and Sudanese were busy?

They're hoping to get on Kim Jong-Il's calendar in North Korea before the year ends.

[dagies]

I don't blame the Native Americans for this action considering the atrocious treatment they received from the hands of the US government after signing the treaties.

That said, I think it should have happened a long time ago. I fail to see the benefit at this time. Maybe in the end, however this situation is resolved, it will be better for the Native Americans. That much I hope.

[The Sicatoka]

Just found this article, not relating to the Sioux Name Issue, but relating to the Sioux People instead. Apparently, Lakota people are no longer U.S. Citizens: Lakota Indians Withdraw U.S. Treaties

That "Cavalry" moniker just ratcheted up a notch or two on my list ....

[The Sicatoka]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=61157

North Dakota's Board of Higher Education today voted to authorize university system chancellor Bill Goetz to visit chairpeople at North Dakota's two Sioux reservations to discuss UND's Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

Goetz said he plans to meet personally with Standing Rock Chairman Ron His Horse Is Thunder and Spirit Lake Chairwoman Myra Pearson before the state board meets in February and report back at that meeting.

....

Board President John Paulsen floated the idea of retiring the nickname without visiting the tribes, but that plan met strong opposition from other board members and some state leaders.

A primary message at today's state board meeting was that there was no need to rush the negotiating process.

Oh yeah, John Q. "I'm Chapman's sock puppet" Paulsen is looking out for UND's interests .....

[Goon]

That "Cavalry" moniker just ratcheted up a notch or two on my list ....

Ah yes I should have know Russel Means was involved in this. So does that mean that all funding by the US government is now gone? Does that mean their student will have to get Visa to go to college?

[Diggler]

What exactly is Paulsen's problem? Good God. Someone needs to float the idea of his fat ass leaving the board.

[PCM]

Ah yes I should have know Russel Means was involved in this. So does that mean that all funding by the US government is now gone? Does that mean their student will have to get Visa to go to college?

All it means is that Means is shooting his mouth off for a meanignless publicity stunt.

[Goon]

All it means is that Means is shooting his mouth off for a meanignless publicity stunt.

Too bad he isn't any good at acting either.

[PCM]

Indian Country Today columnist Susan Harjo has announced her annual "Mantle of Shame" awards.

Uncle Tomahawk Chops - for their unusual focus on and attachment to ''Indian'' sports references and their singular disregard of the views or situations of living Native Americans. The hands-down winner in this category this year is the University of North Dakota, whose fans would rather spend tens of millions of dollars in court to keep their team name and images than pay attention to the actual Sioux peoples who are telling them to retire ''Fighting Sioux.'' Dishonorable mentions go to the Indian hustler who cut a deal with UND to convince the Sioux nations to change their minds and the non-Indian hustler who made up the T-shirts with this: ''No Sioux Logo / No Sioux Casinos.''

Facts? Ms. Harjo don't need no stinkin' facts!

At least UND is in good company. Russell Means got an award, too!

Russell Means - for his mid-December announcement in D.C. that he is unilaterally withdrawing the Lakota Sioux from treaties with the United States. News flash to Means: treaties are made between nations; you are a person and not a nation; you are not empowered to speak for the Great Sioux Nation; as an individual, you can only withdraw yourself from coverage of your nation's treaties. (Means is the same Oglala Sioux actor who tried to beat domestic violence charges by challenging the sovereign authority of the Navajo Nation to prosecute him - he took it all the way to the Supreme Court and lost.)

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

This one will be a bit out of order compared to the original, but I'm sure everyone will be able to follow along.

I will inform you that I am no longer in school, and have graduated for some time now.

I did find the place where I came to the conclusion you were a student. It was a bit earlier than this summer, but still-I think its reasonable to say that someone who claims to have "classmates" in the spring is still a student in the fall. http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?sho...8082&st=101

I've talked to several of my classmates who feel the same as I do. This issue needs to go away, and the only way to do it change the name. Something nice and neutral.

So, now we all know-yes, you are a graduate.

Well employed using my Poli Sci degree...

Can I ask if you are either teaching or involved in politics? I'll be honest, so far just about everyone I've ever run across in politics is either a lawyer or a marketing person of some sort. I've yet to find either an elected/appointed official or even someone who runs a campaign who has a PoliSci degree.

I said a long time back that the Sioux name would be retired and I was right

Two can play that game. Here it is, mark it down-on Christmas Day, the sun will rise in the east.

I'll be back on the 26th to accept congratulations from all.

(BTW, here's a long-term outlook one for free-we'll elect a new president in 2008.)

BTW, since you aren't even a UND grad, I don't see where you even have a horse to race in this event.

Ah, this old chestnut. Lemme guess at the next one: if you haven't directed a movie then you can't be a movie critic-right?

Okay, everyone who isn't a UND grad get out of the pool.

-Except for the Sioux themselves. The can stay in the debate.

-And the AD at the University of Minnesota, he stays too. We like him.

-Oh, and whoever writes a newspaper editorial I agree with.

-Hmmm, one more, sympathetic professors and Native American "activists": they can stay too.

-Wait, student protestors at Dartmouth are okay: its good to have their voices heard.

-And....

I just love how anyone who supports the Native Americans in there quest to rid UND of a racist logo will be ridiculed.

I saved the best one for last. The claim of VICTIM status. "Oh, look everyone (hey, is this bullhorn on? Testing....) I'm being persecuted for my beliefs." Simple answer-no, there's no attacks on people just because they say something. I can't claim to have read all the posts, but most of the time people here seem to be talking about ideas rather than personalites. And that's the key. When YOU spout astoundingly simplistic, moronic ideas that are simply breathtaking in their incredible failure to even come close to having a tenuous grasp on reality, those posts are going to be shot down. You need to separate the ideas from the person.

One thought from the other thread-if someone is consistently being accused of being a flamer/troll, and they aren't trying to do that: its time that they leave the forum. And trust me, its not because he's the smartest guy in the room and the rest need a little time to catch up with his intellect. When you keep on insisting that you (and you alone) have the correct interpretation of the First Amendment-and its one that the Supreme Court hasn't quite gotten around to issuing yet-well, people tend to ignore the rest of your ideas.

[Hawkster]

This one will be a bit out of order compared to the original, but I'm sure everyone will be able to follow along.

I did find the place where I came to the conclusion you were a student. It was a bit earlier than this summer, but still-I think its reasonable to say that someone who claims to have "classmates" in the spring is still a student in the fall. http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?sho...8082&st=101

So, now we all know-yes, you are a graduate.

Can I ask if you are either teaching or involved in politics? I'll be honest, so far just about everyone I've ever run across in politics is either a lawyer or a marketing person of some sort. I've yet to find either an elected/appointed official or even someone who runs a campaign who has a PoliSci degree.

Two can play that game. Here it is, mark it down-on Christmas Day, the sun will rise in the east.

I'll be back on the 26th to accept congratulations from all.

(BTW, here's a long-term outlook one for free-we'll elect a new president in 2008.)

Ah, this old chestnut. Lemme guess at the next one: if you haven't directed a movie then you can't be a movie critic-right?

Okay, everyone who isn't a UND grad get out of the pool.

-Except for the Sioux themselves. The can stay in the debate.

-And the AD at the University of Minnesota, he stays too. We like him.

-Oh, and whoever writes a newspaper editorial I agree with.

-Hmmm, one more, sympathetic professors and Native American "activists": they can stay too.

-Wait, student protestors at Dartmouth are okay: its good to have their voices heard.

-And....

I saved the best one for last. The claim of VICTIM status. "Oh, look everyone (hey, is this bullhorn on? Testing....) I'm being persecuted for my beliefs." Simple answer-no, there's no attacks on people just because they say something. I can't claim to have read all the posts, but most of the time people here seem to be talking about ideas rather than personalites. And that's the key. When YOU spout astoundingly simplistic, moronic ideas that are simply breathtaking in their incredible failure to even come close to having a tenuous grasp on reality, those posts are going to be shot down. You need to separate the ideas from the person.

One thought from the other thread-if someone is consistently being accused of being a flamer/troll, and they aren't trying to do that: its time that they leave the forum. And trust me, its not because he's the smartest guy in the room and the rest need a little time to catch up with his intellect. When you keep on insisting that you (and you alone) have the correct interpretation of the First Amendment-and its one that the Supreme Court hasn't quite gotten around to issuing yet-well, people tend to ignore the rest of your ideas.

Basically, this is the last I'm saying for a while. When I referred to talking to classmates, I was talking about old friends I knew and took classes with at UND. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not going into detail where I work or what I do, that's not important. I will say that I am putting my poli sci degree to good use, and no, I'm not an American Bar Association admitted lawyer.

I know this is getting to be counter-productive for all sides. I just don't want us lost in a haze with no name, and I've wanted to retire the Fighting Sioux for a long time. End of story.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

...I'm not going into detail where I work or what I do, that's not important. I will say that I am putting my poli sci degree to good use, and no, I'm not an American Bar Association admitted lawyer...

Well employed using my Poli Sci degree, I might add. I just love how anyone who supports the Native Americans in

there

quest to rid UND of a racist logo will be ridiculed.

(emphasis mine)

I have to admit that while it would be sad (on many different levels) if you had said you were employed as a teacher I certainly wouldn't have been surprised. The education required of what passes for a "teacher" these days is utterly shocking and disappointing.

And with that said, all readers should feel free to insert your their (!) own lawyer joke here.

[siouxforeverbaby]

(emphasis mine)

I have to admit that while it would be sad (on many different levels) if you had said you were employed as a teacher I certainly wouldn't have been surprised. The education required of what passes for a "teacher" these days is utterly shocking and disappointing.

And with that said, all readers should feel free to insert your their (!) own lawyer joke here.

speaking as an education major, it is incredibly hard to become a teacher right now. If you are speaking college related, then you need a masters to be considered a professor. Anything below that and you have to pass the Praxis to be admitted into UND's program and then for myself I need to pass at least 5 more tests before I can student teach and some more before I can get a license to teach in ND. NCLB has created all sorts of requirements for teachers and if you don't teach up to its standards then your school loses funding and if you have been teaching for 30 years, but didn't take one class in a subject then NCLB states that you aren't qualified to teach that subject that you have been teaching for 30 years. Ok, I am going to stop before I get on a rant about NCLB, so the point of this post was to point out that the requirements of a teacher are not disappointing as you may not know about all of them.

[Sioux-cia]

My daughter in law's PhD and fluency in five languages will allow her to teach at the college level for about the same compensation as a MacDonald's manager.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

speaking as an education major, it is incredibly hard to become a teacher right now. If you are speaking college related, then you need a masters to be considered a professor. Anything below that and you have to pass the Praxis to be admitted into UND's program and then for myself I need to pass at least 5 more tests before I can student teach and some more before I can get a license to teach...

...the point of this post was to point out that the requirements of a teacher are not disappointing as you may not know about all of them.

I certainly don't know all of what is required in order to be a teacher. (For that matter, I'm not even sure what Praxis is.) But I do know that the "their/there" confusion (or misuse) is all too common among the teachers I do know. (And that's both elementary and high school-level teachers.) I personally find that very sad.

My daughter in law's PhD and fluency in five languages will allow her to teach at the college level for about the same compensation as a MacDonald's manager.

Just as with Praxis, I don't know what a McDonald's manager makes. However, I can tell you that I'm acquainted with someone who holds a doctorate degree in his field-he teaches at a "University of" state college. He makes low-mid six figures; and believe me, he works FAR less hours than fast food mangers. Not to mention the extended summer breaks they spend in Europe.

And as a side note, there are several subjects where I would trust the McDonald's manager's opinion more than his.

[yzerman19]

Let's put it to rest using actual data. According to the American Association of University Professors the avg salaries of full professors and associate professors are as follows. Remember these are averages, and payment is often commensurate with discipline i.e. an MD who teaches at a Medical School will receive the most...lawyers, engineers, financiers are also high, whereas some of the humanities do not receive the average. Here is a sample; all are the flagships i.e. WI-Madison, MN-Twin Cities, TX-Austin

University Professor Assoc Prof

U of MN $116.6 $80.6

NDSU $77.7 $62.4

UND $77.1 $62.8

U of WI $103.5 $78.1

UCLA $133.2 $84.2

U of FL $107.7 $73.3

U of IA $109.8 $75.4

U of MI $130.4 $86.6

U of TX $121.2 $78.3

Also note that consulting, publishing and research can add to compensation significantly and is common.

[siouxforeverbaby]

I certainly don't know all of what is required in order to be a teacher. (For that matter, I'm not even sure what Praxis is.) But I do know that the "their/there" confusion (or misuse) is all too common among the teachers I do know. (And that's both elementary and high school-level teachers.) I personally find that very sad.

Praxis is a series of tests that you have to pass to get a license. Sorry, I didn't explain that. And that is kind of sad, but they should know....which how is that hard?..Their is the ownership form and there is the place form.