airmail Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Caught in the Controversy This USCHO article was posted in the Hockey Forum, but I thought it was pertinent here too. Outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux Hockey Fanatic Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 There have been some very misleading articles in the St. Paul Pioneer Press in the last several days. (I also can't figure out the link thing) But today there is an editorial about the possiblity of the Regional Tournament being moved from UND to St. Paul. Who let's this stuff get published?? KARE 11 reported that UND will lose funding from Engelstad if they change the name. Were are the MN news journalist getting their facts from? I just can't believe how many assumptions they make, then report them as facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Here's a link to the editorial in the St. Paul Pioneer Press. I agree with Sioux Hockey Fanatic. This is a piece of garbage based on rumor, misinformation and wishful thinking. Whoever wrote it obviously isn't aware of the NCAA's ruling that the 2006 west region tournament would be held at the Ralph without the requirment to cover the Sioux references. If the NCAA knows that it can't violate its standing contract to force UND to cover the logos, it certainly knows that it would be hit with an immediate lawsuit if it tried to move the tournament. But I suppose the Pioneer Press would say that because this is an "opinion piece," it doesn't have to be factual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 But I suppose the Pioneer Press would say that because this is an "opinion piece," it doesn't have to be factual. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Remember, Pravda is also owned by Knight-Ridder, which also owns the Hurled, so you can expect the relatively same high degree of reporting and editorial content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 You would think that they would have read the release from the NCAA and realized that UND will keep the West Regional. It made me laugh, how they ended the editorial by asking the question, "How about moving it to St. Paul?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 This is what I e-mailed to the Pioneer Press: The editorial in today's St. Paul Pioneer Press suggests that the NCAA should move the 2006 west region men's hockey tournament to St. Paul because of the University of North Dakota's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. This is absurd. Apparently the editorial writer isn't aware that on Wednesday, the NCAA backed off its demand that UND cover all the Sioux references in the arena for this tournament. Why? Because the NCAA had already signed a legally binding contract with UND that contained no such provision. If the NCAA knows that it's attempt to unilaterally modify the contract after the fact is wrong, then it certainly knows that breaking the contract by moving the tournament elsewhere would be wrong, too, and would very likely result in a lawsuit that UND would win. I realize that as an editorial, this was an opinion piece, but responsible journalists base their opinions on facts, not fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I love this part in particular... "It doesn't matter if a logo and nickname are offensive to one tribal member or 1 million. The fact is they're offensive and they're wrong." Applying that same standard, it doesn't matter if a painting of a guy peeing on a crucifix is offensive to one person or 1 million. The fact is it's offensive and it's wrong. Now, propose those two scenarios to the ACLU and see which one they'll completely ignore because they don't agree with it and which one they'll rally around the cause to promote as freedom of expression. The FACT is it's offensive and wrong? Who decided that for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 The FACT is it's offensive and wrong? Who decided that for me? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The NCAA The People's Republic of Minnesota and many others also not worth mentioning...errr...I mean, too numerous to mention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I love this part in particular... "It doesn't matter if a logo and nickname are offensive to one tribal member or 1 million. The fact is they're offensive and they're wrong." Applying that same standard, it doesn't matter if a painting of a guy peeing on a crucifix is offensive to one person or 1 million. The fact is it's offensive and it's wrong. Now, propose those two scenarios to the ACLU and see which one they'll completely ignore because they don't agree with it and which one they'll rally around the cause to promote as freedom of expression. The FACT is it's offensive and wrong? Who decided that for me? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great points MafiaMan. I loved the sentence of "the face is it's offensive and it's wrong." I'm so glad they know that is a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I thought the Pioneer Press editorial was pretty helpful. It showed ignorance (they obviously had not even read the NCAA statement). It showed arrogance (let's move yet another tournament to St. Paul). And it showed a dearth of serious logic (if one person finds it offensive then it's offensive). That pretty much sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 I love this part in particular... "It doesn't matter if a logo and nickname are offensive to one tribal member or 1 million. The fact is they're offensive and they're wrong." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm offended by the existence of the U of Minnesota athletic department. As a former resident of Minnesota, isn't that justifiable logic to disband it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 How about the obvious conflict of interest there? Is it in St Paul's best interest that drawing 10,000+ for a regional tournament (probably 14,000+ if not closer to 17,000+ with the Goophers in town) be held in St Paul? Of course it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 A Madison paper chimes in: COMMENTARY: Engelstad spinning in his grave There is no sports building - professional or otherwise - as visually stunning and as well appointed as Ralph Engelstad Arena. ... The joke among those who have visited The Ralph since it opened in 2001 is that there is only one thing wrong with it: Its location in barren Grand Forks, N.D. Make it two things. This is a side topic, but the constant barrage of "barrenness" is offensive and ignorant. Compared to the tree canopy along the Gulf Coast (sans Ivan, Katrina, Rita), Minneapolis' or Madison's tree cover is a veritable tundra and certainly not verdant. If this reporter (among others) had any spiritual or intellectual depth, the openness, the sky, the black rich soil, would incite wonder, not disdain. In the same way, too many reporters (with exceptions, like PCM, of course ) seem incapable of writing anything more than superficial observations. My rant for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Anyone who brings Engelstad Arena or Ralph Engelstad into this debate is merely jealous of what he has donated to this University. And we all know that jealousy is the highest form of flattery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 In the same way, too many reporters (with exceptions, like PCM, of course ) seem incapable of writing anything more than superficial observations.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> You should see how much trouble I get into on the USCHO forums when I point out that there are actually a lot of trees in Grand Forks and provide photographic evidence to back it up. (Outside of Grand Forks is another matter entirely. ) You'd think that I'd committed blasphemy for challenging people's misconceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Anyone who brings Engelstad Arena or Ralph Engelstad into this debate is merely jealous of what he has donated to this University.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> And we know which wolf they're feeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 This is what I e-mailed to the Pioneer Press: Ok, you inspired me. Here's what I sent: In today's Pioneer Press editorial "NCAA must be consistent" this comment was made: "It doesn't matter if a logo and nickname are offensive to one tribal member or 1 million. The fact is they're offensive and they're wrong." I looked up the definition of "pioneer" and among various definitions the first listed were a noun "One who ventures into unknown or unclaimed territory to settle." and an adjective "Of, relating to, or characteristic of early settlers". As a relative of a pioneer who did help settle this area, I find it offensive you use the word "pioneer" as a name for your paper. It doesn't matter whether I am the only one offended or if a million people are offended. I now expect you will be changing the name of your newspaper. Thank you. If you don't think you should change your name, please explain to me why I should not be offended, while at the same time using a blanket statement defining the use of American Indian nicknames as "offensive" and "wrong". Oh, and will you be taking on Notre Dame next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Good response, dagies. I hope more people write to challenge the newspaper's twisted logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Ok, you inspired me. Here's what I sent: In today's Pioneer Press editorial "NCAA must be consistent" this comment was made: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 If you get responses, I'd love to know more. Good show the two of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I would love to send a letter to the editor of the St. Paul Pioneer-Press, but I'm pretty sure they only take signed letters (or e-mails) and if my wife were to see the letter...well, let's just say going there isn't an option. These type of ill-informed pieces of tripe are just so ^%@%&^& maddening! These jackbags are supposed to be professional journalists, yet they can't be bothered with the facts. The NCAA is not accusing UND of having a logo and nickname that is merely "offensive", but one that is "hostile and abusive". An accusation that is clearly harder to prove and infinitely more ridiculous. The NCAA statement on the issue went out of its way to mention the fact that the 2006 regional will still be held at the unaltered Ralph. Then there's "It doesn't matter if a logo and nickname are offensive to one tribal member or 1 million. The fact is they're offensive and they're wrong." This is just so stupid it's beyond belief! THIS IS NOT FACT IT IS OPINION!!! When one reads something this monumentally stupid, it's difficult to resist the urge to hunt down the writer and beat some ^%*#^% sense into their #@^$%&*% moronic &$#^$& head!!! I say again, this is coming from supposedly professional journalists!!! Unbelievable!!! Their alma maters must be so proud. In a society that almost unanimously agrees that democracy is the ideal, they are advocating rule by the OPINION of a single individual!!! I've got news for them: It doesn't matter who that individual is, whether it be me, you, any of the jackbags that wrote the editorial, Adolph freaking Hitler, Stalin, or the pope, it is still diametrically opposed to the principle of democracy and is TYRANNY. Are there people that are really THIS stupid?!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 The Virginia Pilot Indian Country Today UND once called its sports team ''Sammy Sioux'' and FSU's team was ''Sammy Seminole.'' The term ''Sammy'' was used by some white Europeans and Americans as a pejorative for people of color - primarily Africans, East Indians and African-Americans - and was synonymous with ''blackie,'' ''darkie'' and worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 The Virginia Pilot Indian Country Today <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sammy Sioux? That's dumb. I'm glad they changed it. It doesn't even sound good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Sammy Sioux? That's dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxman Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Here's an article on USCHO on the Oshie family and UND. Tim Oshie (T.J.'s dad) is 5/8 Ojibwe and has the perspective many of us have talked about. He works in Indian education issues and has had to deal with the philosophical issues associated with the Warroad Warriors name and now the Fighting Sioux. http://www.uscho.com/news/2005/09/28_010727.php I should have added by one of our prominent authors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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