Im' Grinnin I'm Grinnin I'm Grinnin

[skateshattrick]

I should have included the word 'more' before likely. I know the reports of Ammerman not wanting to play with Lee are either inflated or false, but I don't think UND has really recruited him as much. I have heard he has been talking to them lately - but with Marto signing this may not be the case. I am very suprised Hardwick has yet to verbal, and even more suprised Marto did before him. I have seen Marto, Hardwick and Ammerman play several times and IMO Marto is no where close to the other two. All three are considered "offensive" minded, in MNHS play Ammerman had 48, and Hardwick had 66 points. Marto had 37 against much weaker opponents, although his supporting cast wasn't as good. Maybe he can become a Fuher like D-man. I imagine his USHL stock just went up - along with his chances of being selected by Lincoln

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the clarification. Jon Ammerman would be a huge pickup for the Sioux. I'm a little biased because I know the family, but I think he is going to be a very good D1 player. I also agree that Ammerman and Hardwick are pretty far ahead of Marto right now. However, I don't want to sell Jake Marto short because he does have a lot of talent. Tarek Howard has said since Marto was a sophomore that he has the talent to play D1.

[CoteauRinkRat]

I am excited to see Marto play. After watching him play a bunch of games over his career, he has the ability to rush end to end with the puck and make people look foolish along the way. Obviously he played against weaker opponents, but that does not mean he won't be able to make it with the sioux. He obviously can play the game if North Dakota, Minnesota Duluth and U of Minnesota were all interested in him.

[redwing77]

I should have included the word 'more' before likely. I know the reports of Ammerman not wanting to play with Lee are either inflated or false, but I don't think UND has really recruited him as much. I have heard he has been talking to them lately - but with Marto signing this may not be the case. I am very suprised Hardwick has yet to verbal, and even more suprised Marto did before him. I have seen Marto, Hardwick and Ammerman play several times and IMO Marto is no where close to the other two. All three are considered "offensive" minded, in MNHS play Ammerman had 48, and Hardwick had 66 points. Marto had 37 against much weaker opponents, although his supporting cast wasn't as good. Maybe he can become a Fuher like D-man. I imagine his USHL stock just went up - along with his chances of being selected by Lincoln

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more I think of it, jloos, the more I think you are correct. I do believe we want Marto to be the next Nick Fuher. The parrallels are all there. Similar size (Fuher is a little taller), similar defensive and offensive playing style, same home town (though different school right?).

The only thing I think may happen differently is that Marto could turn into the next Lee Marvin-type player. Not in playing time, but in role. He could very well platoon between forward and D. I know that both Marvin and Foyt had prior experience at forward, but I do think Marto could transition well to forward if the need arose.

[LeftyZL]

The more I think of it, jloos, the more I think you are correct. I do believe we want Marto to be the next Nick Fuher. The parrallels are all there. Similar size (Fuher is a little taller), similar defensive and offensive playing style, same home town (though different school right?).

The only thing I think may happen differently is that Marto could turn into the next Lee Marvin-type player. Not in playing time, but in role. He could very well platoon between forward and D. I know that both Marvin and Foyt had prior experience at forward, but I do think Marto could transition well to forward if the need arose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same high school....I think he has the tools to be a great offensive d-man..If anyone saw him at the state tourney, he had a highlight-reel goal from end-to-end that he took one on five and scored to completely change that game. He needs to work on the defensive side of the game, he uses his stick too much i believe, but that will come with development. This next year in the USHL will be a huge sign of how good a player he can be since he will be focusing on hockey only and not 2 other sports.

[CoteauRinkRat]

The only thing I think may happen differently is that Marto could turn into the next Lee Marvin-type player.  Not in playing time, but in role.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please don't compare Marto to Lee Marvin.

[#1Hakfan]

I think a lot of schools are waiting to see both Ammerman and Hardwick play juniors before they go after them hard. I would be more interested in Olimb over Hardwick. I love hometown kids, but the next Defensemen that commit to UND will be a BIG physical guy. In 2 years they will have Lee, Chorney, Radke, Marto, Bine (hopefully) (smaby will probably be gone) and Jones. I hope they get Dowzak or that Finley.

[Rick]

Jon Ammerman would be a huge pickup for the Sioux. I also agree that Ammerman and Hardwick are pretty far ahead of Marto right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think you're being very objective if you say that Lee isn't any better than Ammerman. At this point, it's not even close. There's a reason why every college and pro scout has been drooling over Lee.

I think the statement that Ammerman is far ahead of Marto is also way off. Are guys like Sandelin, Hakstol and Lucia all wrong? There's a reason guys like Lee and Marto have gotten offers from many of the top programs in the country and others are still waiting for their offers. If you asked Youth Hockey Coaches in Grand Forks who the best, most talented and skilled defenseman to ever come through the program is? I believe they would say it is Jake Marto.

I'm not downgrading Ammerman here. I hope he develops the skills to warrent a scholarship offer from the Sioux. He certainly has talent. I just think you're letting quite a bit of bias into your observations of the players.

I also think Hardwick has a lot of talent and I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing for one of the top 5 college programs in the country after a year in the USHL.

[skateshattrick]

I don't think you're being very objective if you say that Lee isn't any better than Ammerman. At this point, it's not even close. There's a reason why every college and pro scout has been drooling over Lee.

I think the statement that Ammerman is far ahead of Marto is also way off. Are guys like Sandelin, Hakstol and Lucia all wrong? There's a reason guys like Lee and Marto have gotten offers from many of the top programs in the country and others are still waiting for their offers. If you asked Youth Hockey Coaches in Grand Forks who the best, most talented and skilled defenseman to ever come through the program is? I believe they would say it is Jake Marto.

I'm not downgrading Ammerman here. I hope he develops the skills to warrent a scholarship offer from the Sioux. He certainly has talent. I just think you're letting quite a bit of bias into your observations of the players.

I also think Hardwick has a lot of talent and I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing for one of the top 5 college programs in the country after a year in the USHL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ammerman was one of 4 Minnesota players invited to play in the Czech Republic 2 years ago. Brian Lee was one of the others. 2 years ago, Jon Ammerman made the US Development Team in Ann Arbor. He chose not to go because family is very important and cannot be recaptured and because he wanted to win a state championship. If he had gone, he would certainly have all of the D1 teams after him because it is a "reputation" program. Until the time that Brian Lee grew, Jon Ammerman was the better youth hockey player. He was better as a squirt, better as a pee wee. Brian Lee caught and arguably "passed" him in the eyes of others when he was a bantam.

Jon Ammerman is a better skater and has better offensive skills than Lee. Not to take anything away from Lee, who is an outstanding player, but the reasons that Lee is being recruited more and is more highly regarded are two fold: (1) he is bigger and thus, has more potential (2) he is more poised and makes betters decisions. You should know that scouts typically recruit the bigger player with more potential. In fact, a scout at the Minnesota HS tournament said that the primary reason that Ammerman is not being recruited more is because he is under 6' (which is actually wrong because the measurements are old). The fact that a player is bigger or has more "upside" rarely tells which will be a better college player. That is why Jason Blake was recruited only by Ferris State out of the USHL, David Hoogsteen only by UND, and Jeff Panzer was an afterthought compared to the "highly regarded" Wes Dorey.

I agree that Lee is a tremendous player and prospect. However, you don't need to downgrade Ammerman just because you believe that Lee is better. In fact, Ammerman has been recruited by UM, UMD and UND, but they all want to see him play a year of USHL. He is currently being talked to by Maine, Ohio State, UNO and even UND. Apparently, my bias must have forced these programs to talk with him.

The same is true of Hardwick. In fact, if you talk to virtually any scout or recruiter, they will rate Jon Ammerman higher than Hardwick because he is bigger and Hardwick is being labeled as having slow feet. I personally think they are wrong about Hardwick because he has great instincts and intangibles, but Ammerman is more highly regarded. In fact, many regard Olimb higher than Hardwick.

You can say with a straight face that you believe that Lee is a better player than Ammerman and I respect that. But Hardwick or Marto?? Please. You need a dose of objectivity.

[dagies]

Jon Ammerman is a better skater and has better offensive skills than Lee. Not to take anything away from Lee, who is an outstanding player, but the reasons that Lee is being recruited more and is more highly regarded are two fold: (1) he is bigger and thus, has more potential (2) he is more poised and makes betters decisions.

This would seem a big deal. I've not seen Ammerman play except a bit on tv myself. This could be a real drawback, couldn't it? I would guess it depends on how many "mistakes" Ammerman might make with the puck?

[DMT]

I have only seen Ammerman play a handful of times. I see him as a Keith Ballard (Risk/Reward) type of player. He looks real good at times (most of the time), but makes some defensive mistakes.

[skateshattrick]

This would seem a big deal. I've not seen Ammerman play except a bit on tv myself. This could be a real drawback, couldn't it? I would guess it depends on how many "mistakes" Ammerman might make with the puck?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are misinterpreting my message. This is not a negative on Jon Ammerman, who is exceptional. Rather, it is considered to be the main strength of Brian Lee, who shows exceptional poise and rarely makes turnovers. That is why Brian Lee was selected to the World Junior team and is getting a scholarship right out of high school. What I'm telling you is that the difference between the two is not that great. Ask the players who play against them---they have an awful tough time telling you who is better and why. Make no mistake---Jon Ammerman will play D1 hockey and will be outstanding. He is that good and always has been. If he wasn't, the Sioux would not be talking with him right now. Perhaps you didn't know this, but the Sioux have been talking with him about coming in possibly next year if Matt Greene leaves. I doubt that he will because he wants to play a year of USHL so that he is ready when he gets to college.

[Eskimos]

You can say with a straight face that you believe that Lee is a better player than Ammerman and I respect that. But Hardwick or Marto?? Please. You need a dose of objectivity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not comparing anyone here, I just can't believe how people are not giving Marto much respect on this board. I know he has to earn that and he will when he plays for the Sioux, but I think this kid is a pretty good player also. I hope the Sioux can get all the best players, whoever they are.

I'm not speaking for Rick here, but I agree with him on some of his points and I think he was a little irritated with jloos as was I, when he was basically saying that Marto played against weaker opponents and couldn't hold a candle to his Moorhead boys.

[Fetch]

Time will tell

All I can say is we should be pretty darn good for the next 4 or 5 years

- I look forward to UND's Hockey Future

Now I like Summer & Love Fall - But Hate winter - But I do Love Sioux Hockey - makes it livable up here

We have the Ralph & that Helps

& I found the Lienes beer thingy downstairs - so life is good

(Jloos is from Fargo Right ?) so we cut him some slack

[jloos]

I'm not trying to sound down on Marto. Of the D-men being talked about he is the one I've seen play the least - and I've never seen him play against top competition (elite league). Comparing him to MN players is not fair - and I should not have done that. From what I've seen from him - he has a long ways to go defensively, but he skates just as well as any D1 D recruit. He also has great hands. I think the WCHA is a good league for smaller D - but by smaller I think Bina type - short and stocky - 6' and 160 lbs is a little lean. I still think Ammerman and Hardwick are the Sioux's best bets for the 06-07 season. Dowzek is also on that list - although I haven't seen him play since last fall.

[#1siouxfan22]

I think Marto would make a better forward IMHO. He played both in the ND state championship. The size thing doesnt bother me much since he has over a year and will gain weight by concentrating on one sport and the weight room. I was surprised to hear he was going to UND though, I really thought he would chose a baseball school but its good to hear he's willing to concentrate on this. Now Finley or Dowzak would make a nice compliment to him.

[Fetch]

Oh I forgot........... Fargo is something they used to spray on Sneaky Wild Oats

[yepdude]

I'm not trying to sound down on Marto.

[redwing77]

[NDFAN]

Oh I forgot........... Fargo is something they used to spray on Sneaky Wild Oats 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fargo was a pre-emergence herbicide in a granular form. Not necessarily sprayed - More like spread.

[sprig]

Not necessarily sprayed - More like spread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The product name makes more sense now. Think I liked the hunting stuff better though

[tnt]

Think I'm going to trust a bunch of coaches on Marto. When you hear phrases like "the best I've ever coached" and "great leader and lockerroom guy" from coaches who have coached top WCHA talent, I guess I'll take their word for it. Nevermind the fact that Hakstol and company have done a good job recruiting. Even if Marto were a hair behind Ammerman and Hardwick right now, which I don't believe he is, his upside is so much bigger. First of all, his skating is great, you can't teach that. Secondly, he has only played the equivalent of 2 years of high school hockey. He'll have to adjust, no doubt, but he is heading in the right direction. Nothing against Ammerman, but 2 years ago he was the name I heard most when talking about great defensemen. I don't want to say he has leveled off, but he obviously hasn't made the same strides as others because he wasn't at the forefront of recruiting talk like he was in the past. That said, I would love to have him after a year in the USHL. If you're talking about whose more ready to play this very moment it is probably not Marto, but if you can get a potential impact player with some development, I'll take him.

[brianvf]

Good pickup for the Sioux. Great to see good local talent coming to UND.

Does everyone think that he will play both forward and defense? I think that the team will be set at forward for a few years now, defense will be thin and where I think we would need him most.

I agree with tnt that he has tremendous potential. A year in the USHL will do him good, hitting the weights and gaining some bulk preparing for the grind of the WCHA.

[Fetch]

I have heard he wants to play Defense (seriously) - I agree he has the skills to play forward - But he is so quick & hand /eye coordination & can skate - He makes D look easy - Should make for some interesting power plays - huh ?

So do you think size & physical ability trumps skill, as a defenseman ? (I like big tough guys in those roles) - But do they always mean better odds of winning ?

& do the better skilled Athletes naturally gravitate towards forward positions ? (In General) ?...........

[dagies]

You are misinterpreting my message. This is not a negative on Jon Ammerman, who is exceptional. Rather, it is considered to be the main strength of Brian Lee, who shows exceptional poise and rarely makes turnovers. That is why Brian Lee was selected to the World Junior team and is getting a scholarship right out of high school. What I'm telling you is that the difference between the two is not that great. Ask the players who play against them---they have an awful tough time telling you who is better and why. Make no mistake---Jon Ammerman will play D1 hockey and will be outstanding. He is that good and always has been. If he wasn't, the Sioux would not be talking with him right now. Perhaps you didn't know this, but the Sioux have been talking with him about coming in possibly next year if Matt Greene leaves. I doubt that he will because he wants to play a year of USHL so that he is ready when he gets to college.

ok

[skateshattrick]

Think I'm going to trust a bunch of coaches on Marto.  When you hear phrases like "the best I've ever coached" and "great leader and lockerroom guy" from coaches who have coached top WCHA talent, I guess I'll take their word for it.  Nevermind the fact that Hakstol and company have done a good job recruiting.  Even if Marto were a hair behind Ammerman and Hardwick right now, which I don't believe he is, his upside is so much bigger.  First of all, his skating is great, you can't teach that.  Secondly, he has only played the equivalent of 2 years of high school hockey.  He'll have to adjust, no doubt, but he is heading in the right direction.  Nothing against Ammerman, but 2 years ago he was the name I heard most when talking about great defensemen.  I don't want to say he has leveled off, but he obviously hasn't made the same strides as others because he wasn't at the forefront of recruiting talk like he was in the past.  That said, I would love to have him after a year in the USHL.  If you're talking about whose more ready to play this very moment it is probably not Marto, but if you can get a potential impact player with some development, I'll take him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know Tarek very well and trust his judgment on this one. Why you continue to have to compare Jon Ammerman and say that he is not as good or does not have as much upside perplexes me. Have you even seen him play? I am willing to bet that Tarek would describe Jon Ammerman as an "unbelievable" player. I suggest you ask him. I intend to.