Reasons for Keeping the Name

[KnowtheFacts]

A co-worker of mine is one-half Yankton Sioux.  She spent part of her youth on a reservation in SD.  Her mother is full Sioux. 

She is someone I respect a lot so when I found out her ancestry I inquired to her feelings on the nickname issue.  She absolutely has no issues with Native American nicknames, even including "Redskins".  She indicated her mother couldn't care less either.

My personal experiences with Native Americans supporting the nickname are far outweighing my personal experience with Native Americans who oppose (2-0 if you are counting).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can keep a personal score if you like, but that only counts for YOUR experience. You forget that almost ALL of the Sioux Tribes have asked for UND to change its logo. (The only tribe abstaining happens to be the smallest one, representing about 600 people). This isn't about a few people here and there who like or don't like the name. That just isn't how our democratic nation is run. I've heard the argument that Native people need to get together and agree on the issue. That is so ridiculous. Do Americans unanimously agree on all issues? NO! That is why we have elected officials. They are responsible for determining the needs and wants of their constituents. So it is with the Sioux Tribal Governments. And their decisions are that their SIOUX constituents do not want UND to use their name or identity as the school logo.

[dagies]

You can keep a personal score if you like, but that only counts for YOUR experience. You forget that almost ALL of the Sioux Tribes have asked for UND to change its logo. (The only tribe abstaining happens to be the smallest one, representing about 600 people). This isn't about a few people here and there who like or don't like the name. That just isn't how our democratic nation is run. I've heard the argument that Native people need to get together and agree on the issue. That is so ridiculous. Do Americans unanimously agree on all issues? NO! That is why we have elected officials. They are responsible for determining the needs and wants of their constituents. So it is with the Sioux Tribal Governments. And their decisions are that their SIOUX constituents do not want UND to use their name or identity as the school logo.

Some published information like this helps back up my personal experience. As posted by others previously:

Survey on "Redskins" nickname

And don't forget the "surprising" results of the Sports Illustrated? poll of a few years ago which showed Native Americans in large numbers supported use of Native American nicknames by sports teams.

I didn't meet the only 2 Native Americans who supported my point of view, KnowtheFacts.

[KnowtheFacts]

[BringDeanBack]

Actually, I thought there was quite a bit of talk about it being a hate crime right away.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, you are wrong, there was very little, if any, talk of it being a hate crime. It was played off as a party gone bad type of situation.

Reverse discrimination is alive and well.

[ESPNInsider]

[ESPNInsider]

Actually, you are wrong, there was very little, if any, talk of it being a hate crime. It was played off as a party gone bad type of situation.

Reverse discrimination is alive and well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's weird, I remember them talking about the possibility on the news on more then one occasion. I must be wrong though, thanks for correcting me on what I saw and heard.

[gophersrule6969]

A UND fan with Kracker in his name...North Dakota ='s racist white people with nothing to do. The Sioux head logo on the hockey jersey was not even designed by a member of the Sioux Tribe. The name belongs with the Sioux people, not a bunch of crazy white people. College athletics today is not about honor, courage, tradition, it is about making money for UND and a bridge to the NHL for the hockey players. Call them the Turd Sandwiches or the IwishwewereteBISON and UND fans will still pack the arena and buy all the merchandise..because Minneapolis is 5 hours away and Winnipeg no longer has any top pro teams. You all just want a team to be associated with.

[jimdahl]

When you say "it didn't take long to notice how Indian students are treated" what are you referring to?  I went to UND for 4 years and never once saw, or heard anyone treat someone of another race poorly simply because they were of a different race.  Sure I saw my share of fights and arguments, but not once was it because of ethnicity or race.  I'm not saying there never have been, however, I was just surprised that you say it didn't take long for you to see it.

This is an interesting point I've never understood. When American Indian name-change activists claim the nickname isn't an honor, they often cite incidents of racism. I understand how opponents performing inappropriate chants against the name is a direct result of the nickname, but I don't understand how on-the-mean-streets of G.F. racism is increased by it.

In contrast, I think the majority of educational information about the local natives and programs to increase awareness of them are a direct result of the nickname choice. Change the nickname and in 20 years UND students won't know a thing about the local natives, there will be no inaugural native dances at REA, there will be no informational events about the Sioux because all of those ARE directly tied to the choice of nickname. I certainly know my interest in and knowledge of the Dakota Indians has been dramatically increased by the affiliation of UND with the nickname.

If we really thought that same change would somehow prevent mean intolerant people from discriminating on race, most of us would think it a great tradeoff.

[johnsowe]

You do not know what you are talking about.

[ESPNInsider]

A UND fan with Kracker in his name...North Dakota ='s racist white people with nothing to do.  The Sioux head logo on the hockey jersey was not even designed by a member of the Sioux Tribe.  The name belongs with the Sioux people, not a bunch of crazy white people.  College athletics today is not about honor, courage, tradition, it is about making money for UND and a bridge to the NHL for the hockey players.  Call them the Turd Sandwiches or the IwishwewereteBISON and UND fans will still pack the arena and buy all the merchandise..because Minneapolis is 5 hours away and Winnipeg no longer has any top pro teams.  You all just want a team to be associated with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously you haven't read his posts. Better brush up.

A Gopher fan with 69 in his name...Minnesota='s sexual predators and child molesters

[gophersrule6969]

North Dakota is known across the country for it's racial diversity. when I was up there you could count the number of black and native american student athletes and student with your fingers. It was a joke. Racism is not something that always smacks you in the face...it is conversations that go on at bars and board rooms all over grand forks. how many native americans work in the UND athletic department. Where are the opportunities that are being created for them on campus? Cultural heritage and people going to college will not change because some hockey fans have to call their team something else. Being part of the Sioux nation is something more sacred than a stupid sports fan or UND alum will ever understand.

[Diggler]

Where are the opportunities that are being created for them on campus?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean like the 20 or so Native American programs at UND? Quit posting. You don't even care about the name, you just want to try annoying people. The problem is that you are too ignorant to be able to do that.

[cfm567b27]

Can someone break out the skippy sign please?

[administrator]

Recent discussions have brought around quite a few new posters and riled up some old ones, so let me remind EVERYONE:

Do not personally attack other posters. You can disagree with their opinions and hold a legitimate discussion on them without attacking the person.

[ESPNInsider]

North Dakota is known across the country for it's racial diversity.  when I was up there you could count the number of black and native american student athletes and student with your fingers.  It was a joke. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When were you up in GF, 1940? After all, we are stuck in the 50's compared to the "technologically ahead of their time" state of Minnesota.

[HockeyMom]

North Dakota is known across the country for it's racial diversity.  when I was up there you could count the number of black and native american student athletes and student with your fingers.  It was a joke.  Racism is not something that always smacks you in the face...it is conversations that go on at bars and board rooms all over grand forks.  how many native americans work in the UND athletic department.  Where are the opportunities that are being created for them on campus?  Cultural heritage and people going to college will not change because some hockey fans have to call their team something else.  Being part of the Sioux nation is something more sacred than a stupid sports fan or UND alum will ever understand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love that you just posted something like that and then called all of us ignorant.

[jimdahl]

Racism is not something that always smacks you in the face...it is conversations that go on at bars and board rooms all over grand forks.

[ESPNInsider]

[Goon]

North Dakota is known across the country for it's racial diversity.  when I was up there you could count the number of black and native american student athletes and student with your fingers.  It was a joke.  Racism is not something that always smacks you in the face...it is conversations that go on at bars and board rooms all over grand forks.  how many native americans work in the UND athletic department.  Where are the opportunities that are being created for them on campus?  Cultural heritage and people going to college will not change because some hockey fans have to call their team something else.  Being part of the Sioux nation is something more sacred than a stupid sports fan or UND alum will ever understand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your a bigger idiot than Happy, either that or you got kicked off of the forum and came back with a different moniker. In fact how can you spew such stupidity. Go back to your elietist school where you can preach your liberal/leftest views to people that will acutally listen to them. Your starting to align yourself with the morons like John Hoff and Russell Means. UND is know around the USA as a state with top notch American Indians Studies programs. Ie, LIKE INMED etc.

[dagies]

1. I am not talking about Native Americans nationwide.  I am talking about Sioux.

2.  Again you point to surveys that involve individual opinions.  I am talking about democratically elected leaders.

3.  If you ever took a statistics course you would know that statistics are easily manipulated, including sample size, source, and methods of polling.  I doubt that Indian people in any other region are affected by the Fighting Sioux name like the people that live more locally.   

When I first moved here I didnt know what UND's logo even was, but it really didnt take long to notice how Indian students are treated on this campus despite the so-called Honor that the name gives to them.  I know Sioux people that were proud of the Fighting Sioux name UNTIL they went to a game and overheard what people say and how derogatory it is.  It is human nature to surround yourself with people that agree with you, but you need to really be critical of your sources and also talk (not argue) with some people who disagree and find out why they feel that way.

1. I don't understand why the Sioux should be a unique microcosm of Native American opinions nationwide.

2. So the opinions of the people are less important than the opinions of their elected leaders?

3. I'm aware of statistics, but of the polls I mentioned I haven't seen anyone object to the validity of the studies. If you find it, I'm sure you'll let us know.

[PCM]

When I first moved here I didnt know what UND's logo even was, but it really didnt take long to notice how Indian students are treated on this campus despite the so-called Honor that the name gives to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If American Indian students are treated so horribly at UND as a result of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo, how is it that there are three times more of them at UND than there are at NDSU? How is it that UND has nearly two and a half times more American Indian students than the University of South Dakota? How is it that compared to my alma mater, South Dakota State University, UND has four times more American Indian students?

If what you say was true, one would think that UND would be the last university American Indian students would choose to attend. But for some strange reason, they come to UND in far greater numbers than they do to other universities in the Dakotas. How do you explain that?

[PCM]

The name belongs with the Sioux people, not a bunch of crazy white people.

[Diggler]

Actually, the name "Sioux" was derived from a language spoken by a bunch of crazy white peple known as the French.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The French are quite the crazy bunch.

[PCM]

The French are quite the crazy bunch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oui.

[tnt]

Gophersrule6969,

I seem to remember the majority of gopher fans complaining about Canadians playing for the Sioux. In fact, it was an obsession with them. Substitute the word black or Indian and what do you have. So, now who is more inclusive. UND accepting anybody from anywhere or many gopher fans only accepting Minnesotans.