dagies Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 There's been a lot of criticism of this year's team, coaching, etc. Some of it very warranted. Here's a look at last year's Frozen Four teams and how they compare with this year. BC - currently ranked #1 Denver - currently ranked #4 Maine - Currently ranked #14 What did they lose? Aquino F Doyle Sr goalie Jackson Sr Captain Jean So goalie Lyall Sr Penner Jr Ryan Sr Shields Sr Total loss of 133 points, 1 captain and 2 backup goalies UMD - Currently unranked What did they lose? Lessard Sr Hobey Baker winner Geisler Sr D Captain Geris So Hardwick Sr D Klein Jr Goalie Kronick So Unklesby Sr Total loss of 124 points, 1 Hobey Baker winner, 2 captains, 1 backup goalie UND - Currently ranked 14 What did they lose? Bochenski Jr Parise So Lundbohm Sr. Captain Hale Sr. Captain Palmiscino Sr Ziggy Fr goalie Dean Blais - Head Coach Total loss of 160 points, 1 Hobey runner up, 1 Hobey candidate, 2 captains, 1 backup goalie, 1 Head Coach. Looks like we're not alone in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Nice research....we really did lose a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I think I am learning that each team is its own animal, and what a team lost or brings back doesn't necessarily seem to matter. It's more important how a team comes together. The most any Sioux team has "lost" in the current era has to be the Spring of 1999. That powerhouse lost a big group of senior forwards, including stars and many good players. So the next year they go and win #7. Going into this year, I thought the offseason losses were survivable. Hale was a good team guy but really contributed along the lines of the seniors we complain about this year. Lundbohm could stickhandle in a phone booth and had his moments, but with him I always felt like he had the ability to do more; the problem may have just been my expectations. There's no denying Parise's and Bochenski's star quality, but teams do lose their best players and eventually replace them. In this case, Murray and Stafford seemed like they were in the same ballpark talent-wise. In watching games last year, I often felt like there was not a whole lot of difference between Parise's and Murray's impact on the ice. Murray might have been faster and a better offensive threat, and Parise had that dynamic all-around game that you had to see to appreciate. Anyway, I personally felt Murray did well last year because he was an integral part of that line, not because he got fat playing with the Hobeys. I think Stafford has shown the talent to be Bochenski's equal, not as a goalscorer but as an all-around force. Unfortunately, his play has just not been as high in NCAA play as it was over the holidays. So I thought Murray and Stafford had a chance to at least ease the pain of losing the Hobeys. Partly because of injuries, they haven't come close. Then the key would be to have the incoming freshmen replace the impact that Murray, Stafford and Porter had last year. Generally speaking, that hasn't been a problem, as the freshmen have been among the team's best forwards. Sorry for the rambling. My point is that I thought the team could overcome those losses, and so far they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAR Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Nice research....we really did lose a lot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Despite the losses this team has underachieved this year. There is no question about that. Most of the seniors on this team peaked in their sophmore year (Schneider and Massen) especially. Genoway and maybe McMahon are the only players that have shown improvement from year to year. The loss of Blais was the biggest blow to this team, there is leadership missing and it starts at the top. Hakstol has been average at best in his role this year. I will reserve judgement on him this year however since he is new at the job and may take more than one year to get fully acclimated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC_transplant Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Minnesota G. Potulny T. Riddle K. Ballard T. Vanek M. Koalska J Waibel J Taylor J Martin B. MacKinnon 228 points; 725 career points; 1st-team AA; 2nd-team AA; three captains; two Frozen Four MVPs; three to the NHL early; six guys playing in the pros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Minnesota G. Potulny T. Riddle K. Ballard T. Vanek M. Koalska J Waibel J Taylor J Martin B. MacKinnon 228 points; 725 career points; 1st-team AA; 2nd-team AA; three captains; two Frozen Four MVPs; three to the NHL early; six guys playing in the pros <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, and with all that talent they still couldn't make the Frozen Four last year, which is what this thread is about, last year's FF teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm567b27 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Minnesota G. Potulny T. Riddle K. Ballard T. Vanek M. Koalska J Waibel J Taylor J Martin B. MacKinnon 228 points; 725 career points; 1st-team AA; 2nd-team AA; three captains; two Frozen Four MVPs; three to the NHL early; six guys playing in the pros <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey good morning Skippy..... Thanks for your contribution today - well thought out and well presented - problem is this is a Sioux Hockey board so no one gives a rats aZZ about your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Since the visitor had to trot out the massive 228 points lost last year by another team, I'll just add that the 1999 Sioux team I referenced earlier lost 311 points. And won the national title the following year. Each team is different. You just never know how it will come together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Despite the losses this team has underachieved this year. There is no question about that. Most of the seniors on this team peaked in their sophmore year (Schneider and Massen) especially. Genoway and maybe McMahon are the only players that have shown improvement from year to year. The loss of Blais was the biggest blow to this team, there is leadership missing and it starts at the top. Hakstol has been average at best in his role this year. I will reserve judgement on him this year however since he is new at the job and may take more than one year to get fully acclimated. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree. No matter what was lost in production and presence, this team's upperclassmen are a disappointing bunch IMO. I can't really blame Hakstol at this stage, as the "C" and "A"s, really don't seem to lead by example, except for some dumb penalties. I can't remember a Sioux team in recent memory that has been so filled with under-achievers. I like the younger guys like Stafford, Zajac, Porter, Spriko, etc., but none of them seems ready to take the bull by the horns yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Minnesota G. Potulny T. Riddle K. Ballard T. Vanek M. Koalska J Waibel J Taylor J Martin B. MacKinnon 228 points; 725 career points; 1st-team AA; 2nd-team AA; three captains; two Frozen Four MVPs; three to the NHL early; six guys playing in the pros <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey TC Skippy, I think your lost this is the UND fighting Sioux message board, you might feel more welcome over at POI Goofers.com. Then you can join the Gopher love feast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OETKB Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Our young talent is great, and that has helped ease the losses. But the upperclassmen, with the exception of Genoway, have failed to develop year-over-year. UND needs senior leadership out of these guys, and part of that is performing. There is no "Skarperud" on this year's team. The most frustrating thing is that, with 10 upperclassmen skating regularly, the Sioux are around .500. THAT might be unprecidented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Since the visitor had to trot out the massive 228 points lost last year by another team, I'll just add that the 1999 Sioux team I referenced earlier lost 311 points. And won the national title the following year. Each team is different. You just never know how it will come together. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've always thought it's much harder to replace experienced defense, and you're usually in for a tough year when that has to be done (next year's Sioux). This year, my expectations were very high, given the entire defense returned. They have lived up to defensive expectations, with the exception of the early season penalty calling which put them in a hole game after game (although, without looking at the numbers, they didn't give up many PP goals). At any rate, it seemed that the Sioux would have enough offense to win consistently when they held opponents to very few goals, but that hasn't happened, in spite of some good numbers from the freshmen class. A team with this many upper classroom, an experienced defense, and a very good, productive freshmen class reminds me of the '82 team, but the results are much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Minnesota G. Potulny T. Riddle K. Ballard T. Vanek M. Koalska J Waibel J Taylor J Martin B. MacKinnon 228 points; 725 career points; 1st-team AA; 2nd-team AA; three captains; two Frozen Four MVPs; three to the NHL early; six guys playing in the pros <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good point. Really relative to the gophers, we did not lose as much (though both losses were significant). I would point out that the Sioux weren't in the FF last year either AND have made it exactly as far as the Gophers. I don't think that this was an attempt at a flame post, and I appreciated reading the stats. One question though. Did J. Martin actually play last year for the Gophers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 While it's relevant to look at BC and Denver, compare their losses with UND's as an example of teams that have overcome their losses, the point of this post was to show that indeed other good teams with similar or fewer losses than UND's are struggling just as well. UND isn't the only program frustrated with where they're at, who had higher expectations. Wasn't Maine #1 in the country at the beginning of the year? For that reason the visitor is out of place in this thread, and effectively KO'd with a well timed haymaker by jk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm567b27 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 For the record - I have yet to read a post from TC_Implant that wasn't a jab at the Sioux Hockey program - which in my book labels him with the title he has - Skippy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 For that reason the visitor is out of place in this thread, and effectively KO'd with a well timed haymaker by jk. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well then, I stand corrected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Good point. Really relative to the gophers, we did not lose as much (though both losses were significant). I would point out that the Sioux weren't in the FF last year either AND have made it exactly as far as the Gophers. I don't think that this was an attempt at a flame post, and I appreciated reading the stats. One question though. Did J. Martin actually play last year for the Gophers? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't see the point, the Guy is a Gopher fan and he on Siouxsports.com spouting off about the Gophers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC_transplant Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 The 2003 Gopher team lost 255 points and a four-year starter in net from 2002.....Hobey Baker Award winner, two first-team All-Americans, WCHA winningest goaltender, nation's leading scorer, nation's second leading goal scorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm567b27 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 The 2003 Gopher team lost 255 points and a four-year starter in net from 2002.....Hobey Baker Award winner, two first-team All-Americans, WCHA winningest goaltender, nation's leading scorer, nation's second leading goal scorer <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Skippy...now back to our regularly scheduled programming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyeagle Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I don't think that this was an attempt at a flame post, and I appreciated reading the stats. One question though. Did J. Martin actually play last year for the Gophers? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, but was not (ahem) a major contributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 But the upperclassmen, with the exception of Genoway, have failed to develop year-over-year. UND needs senior leadership out of these guys, and part of that is performing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think Brandt is still a great goalie. How can anyone say he has failed just because he does not get a chance to play? He hasn't looked bad when he has played this year. DH also said that he was a leader in the locker room. Of course that could be part of the problem right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxtatoo42 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I don't think this is the place to be pointing fingers at other players for low point totals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringDeanBack Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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