DI conferences pursue DII schools, indeed!

[UND-1]

Thanks for the history lesson. I was talking about Football and Womens Basketball, the only two sports that anyone really gave a sh*t about and were both on top at one time.

You were happy with what those two programs accomplished in the past 10 years?

Good luck in D-1AA if you are happy with that.

Is that what the mighty Bison football team has fallen too? "Being very competitive in a tough conference, being Top 2-3 in the NCC (now they are bragging about how tough the NCC was), and citing scholarship reductions as to why they couldn't win a NC anymore". I believe the rest of the teams that were winning--UNC & NWMS, etc. had 36 too.

Your fans were getting used to not winning it all and not making the playoffs and finishing 2-3rd in the conference. That is why there was a need to change.

[Bison_Kent]

UND-1,

I agree that NDSU should have moved in 1990 but NDSU would not have seen three straight women's basketball titles, a softball title and a couple more wrestling titles in the last decade.

NDSU Football, in my opinion, got worse due to scholarship reductions over this time period. I find it sort of ironic that DII is again talking scholarship reductions. That is all we have seen from the division over the past 25 years and every time that it happened NDSU was against it.

Twenty-five years ago, DII was just under where I-AA is now in scholarship number. Could this be the reason so many top DII schools are leaving the division? --no it couldn't be.

Over the past 25 years, we have seen DII powers Troy (AL) State, Portland State, Delaware, SW Texas State (now just Texas State), Eastern Illinois, Cal Poly, Jacksonville (AL) State, Northern Colorado, UC Davis, and NDSU leave the division. Scholarship redcuction in football played a huge role in these schools leaving the division.

I think (didn't do it) if you count the number of DII championship game participants from the start of DII play in 1973, you will see that the majority are now either in I-AA or even in I-A play.

[bigmrg74]

Scholorship reductions are a moot point for a year here in D2. They have been voted on and was defeated by a pretty wide margin. Couldn't you nice NDSU guys find something more constructive with your time than to come here and say how great its going to be in D1-AA and how UND should move up so you guys can play again. How about going out and helping your Athletic Dept. do some fundraising to pay for all the costs you guys are going to encure for the move up to D1-AA.

[legend334]

scholarship reductions??? when was the last year it was reduced...it has been a while...you cant blame that on why the Bison were losing...come on....that is ridiculous!!! enjoy that red ink all over the books come July 1....i know i will enjoy seeing it and I hope the Higher Board of Education does too!!!!

[pentaxman46]

Lest the bison faithfull (brainwashed) forget, their first attempt at the "big time" was to pursue D1 hockey. Their administration and the city of fargo tried to shove an arena proposal down the collective throats of the fargo voters. That effort was a horrible failure as the voters , including the ndsu campus vote, shoved the proposal up Chapman's and Taylor's collective rears. Still smarting from a huge case of big green penis envy Chapman, and his lacky Taylor, decided that they would show UND somehting by going D1aa football and throw the rest of their programs to the wolves. They knew that the chances of the ncaa reducing DII scholarships was small. They just used it as one of their excuses to make the move and masage Chapman's ego.

DG

[bisonguy]

Lest the bison faithfull (brainwashed) forget, their first attempt at the "big time" was to pursue D1 hockey.  Their administration and the city of fargo tried to shove an arena proposal down the collective throats of the fargo voters.  That effort was a horrible failure as the voters , including the ndsu campus vote, shoved the proposal up Chapman's and Taylor's collective rears.  Still smarting from a huge case of big green penis envy Chapman, and his lacky Taylor, decided that they would show UND somehting by going D1aa football and throw the rest of their programs to the wolves.  They knew that the chances of the ncaa reducing DII scholarships was small.  They  just used  it as one of their excuses to make the move and masage Chapman's ego.

DG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Taylor wasn't around for the "push" for DI hockey at NDSU. That was the brainchild of Bob Entzion, who ended up at NDSU from UND. It was his alternative to a move to DI, in which NDSU was already studying due to interest from alumni and Team Makers.

[EdtheFred]

Careful. That one has two edges also. Don't be surprised to see NDSU doing the same thing (because NDSU lobbied hard for that aspect of "local control" with the State Board of Higher Ed).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its not a double edge sword. We have made it an entitlement. NDSU should use it to the same extent we do. Why wouldnt they? whos to care? Certainly not us

[SiouxMeNow]

[TheBisonator]

That might have been since there was a serious envy of UND hockey at the time but as we all found out....The WCHA kicked NDSU hockey to the curb (wouldn't be the first time...as you guys would find out!) as a potential conference member (NO EXPANSION) - Fargo residents rejected an arena proposal by a HUGE margin!...THEN we all found out BISON BOB was "pulling" for something else totally unrelated to DI Sports!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Woah, hold on there, pardner. Entzion came from UND. Don't try to lump him in with NDSU.

[CoteauRinkRat]

[timbo]

i HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH INTO THIS ABOUT MONEY LOSS AND D1 HOCKEY BEING THAT I AM HEARING THAT A LOT ON HERE.NDSU AND UND WILL LOSE MONEY THIS YEAR AND UNDS WILL BE QUITE A BIT MOREBUT IT IS MOSTLY BECAUSE OF WOMENS HOCKEY AND THAT IS ALSO ONE OF THE REASONS NDSU WILL NEVER HAVE D1 HOCKEY IS BECAUSE OF TITLE NINE AND WE HAVE ALL SEEN WHAT IT DID TO SOME UND MENS PROGRAMS AND NDSU DOES NOT WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROUTE AGAIN.

[Smoggy]

i HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH INTO THIS ABOUT MONEY LOSS AND D1 HOCKEY BEING THAT I AM HEARING THAT  A LOT ON HERE.NDSU AND UND WILL LOSE MONEY THIS YEAR AND UNDS WILL BE  QUITE A BIT MOREBUT IT IS MOSTLY BECAUSE OF WOMENS HOCKEY AND THAT IS ALSO ONE OF THE REASONS NDSU WILL NEVER HAVE D1 HOCKEY IS BECAUSE OF TITLE NINE AND WE HAVE ALL SEEN WHAT IT DID TO SOME UND MENS PROGRAMS AND NDSU DOES NOT WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROUTE AGAIN.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WHAT!?!

[Supertrex]

Supertex- Those schools are U of Minn and Wisconsin, they are the schools in those states, they share the limelight with no one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Except for the Minnesota Vikings, the Green Bay Packers, the Wolves and the Bucks...otherwise, there simply is no competition for the Gophers or the Badgers...

[SiouxMeNow]

The point of this forum is that YES - DI conferences DO pursue DII schools based entirely on a principle that was largely ignored when the Ag college made the leap - GEOGRAPHY!!

It seemed pretty obvious to me...if you're close to a DI conference that's looking to expand - GO FOR IT!! If that distance exceeds 500 miles and includes a poorly financed "partner/anchor" like SDSU - YOU MIGHT WANT TO HOLD ON FOR A BIT!! NDSU assumed the Big Sky would trip all over themselves to bring them in....WAH WAH!! WRONG!! Now the Bison have made their bed - let them lay in it!!

UND has a different situation with an established and extremely successful DI Mens Hockey program that has only recently had a Title IX anchor attached to it called Womens Hockey. They'll be okay in the long run once they get up to their full quota of scholarships and get rollling but in the interim - WH is a big money loser and financial drain on athletics. THIS WAS NOT THE TIME for UND to move up ALL it's programs - end of story!!! Quit bitching because we couldn't help you land the Big Sky!

[FargoBison]

SiouxMeNow- You are right some D1 conferences pusue D2 teams based on being a solid geographical fit, but some D1 conference tell D2 schools to be a D1 indy for a few years and show us commitment. Both statements are correct and the better way for a D2 school to go is debatable and in NDSU's case time will tell. It has only been one year, if somone told me NDSU would be in a conference after year one then I would have been amazed. The Big Sky is still looking at adding NDSU the door still isn't shut. It is almost impossible to judge if the Sky will ever make it's mind up regarding adding NDSU, one week it seems unlikey and then a week later I will hear something and it will seem as likely as ever. And also the Gateway may also start pursueing NDSU if they lose WKU to the MAC and there is serious talks about dropping the IAA division and merging it with 1A and creating a two divsion 1A one playoff and one non-playoff(BCS), that would probably throw another 20-30 teams into IAA and could cause some conferences to need schools. NDSU will get into conference in this decade there is just too much instabilty among DI conferences for something to not open up. I still will mantain that going D1 will help NDSU in the long run on getting into a conference faster, and that staying in D2 was the right choice for UND.

Womens hockey- Will probably be a money drain for a long time since nobody cares about it will always be a money drain and will be the reason NDSU will never have a hockey team. And for that I am glad since NDSU can focus on a much more cheaper and popular sport in D1 mens hoops and at the same time they can have a womens team competing at the NCAA's highest level that will be making money not losing it. If UND is going to wait for the womens hockey team to make money then they may be waiting a while. I think UND is waiting because they want to see how NDSU handles the transition and how it affects UND, not because of the womens hockey team

[SiouxMeNow]

Just curious...(In a MOST FRIENDLY, NON CONFRONTATIONAL mode Jim!) how NDSU is doing in title IX compliance? You will have added 27 full scholly's in FB since you bailed D2...just curious what womens scholarships you've added to equal everything out?

[dakotadan]

I have wondered that too (title 9 and NDSU). So many people have joked about UND adding women's hockey and what a money drain it is. I think that UND saw this as a positive if UND ever did decide to go DI in all sports. .

[dakotadan]

Quite frankly I believe that once the program is up and completely running it could break EVEN. With as few women's hockey programs as there are, I can see our program being competative nationally and soon being in the race for a national championship. Say in five years our team is right up there with the UofM and UMD for the NC, who says it could not have enough support to NOT be the big money drain that everyone says it will be. If UND does decide to go DI, this is a progam that completely goes with Title 9 and could win us a N.C. in the not so distant future

[IowaBison]

I don't think that interest and attendance in women's hockey will ever lead to any school's program breaking even.

With regards to NDSU, we have A LOT of fundraising to do ($1.4 million for scholies next year, versus $1 this year)

[The Sicatoka]

I believe you on the level of fundraising to be done; however, that doesn't answer the question:

Even if the funds are raised, which womens sports will the dollars be spent on to meet the requirements of Federal law, namely Title IX? Is there room to "max out" the existing womens grants and be compliant or will a womens sport need to be added to make the grant numbers balance out men to women?

[bisonguy]

There was an article, probably in The Forum, that outlined where NDSU was going to increase women's financial aid to counter the increase of financial aid for football. I know basketball and volleyball are both sports that would be maxed out (gain of 5 and 4, respectively). As for the rest of the sports, the gain by maxing out the financial aid level (this does not account for the scenario that NDSU did not fully fund at the DII level, which would only increase the numbers): track and CC (+5.4), golf(+.6), soccer(+3.1), softball (+4.8). Of course, if that's not enough to comply with Title IX proportionately to the student demographics, there will be a brand new Equestrian Center sitting on NDSU land, in which the NDSU Equine Science program is in a stategic alliance with, so I would venture to guess that women's equestrian might be added. That would be 15 additional grants.

[The Sicatoka]

Add a sport with some-teen additional grants for women and that fits within the existing structure and mindset of the school so as to ensure Title IX compliance down the road? Interesting concept, but it doesn't sound cheap.

The way it could get better is if it had the potential to have some, any, level of payback at the turnstiles, like if you could play Big Ten schools, say Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Ohio State, in the sport.

[bisonguy]

Add a sport with some-teen additional grants for women and that fits within the existing structure and mindset of the school so as to ensure Title IX compliance down the road? Interesting concept, but it doesn't sound cheap.

[Hansel]

Add a sport with some-teen additional grants for women and that fits within the existing structure and mindset of the school so as to ensure Title IX compliance down the road? Interesting concept, but it doesn't sound cheap. 

The way it could get better is if it had the potential to have some, any, level of payback at the turnstiles, like if you could play Big Ten schools, say Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Ohio State, in the sport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The forum article said NDSU was going to Max out all women's sports while fully funding the mens "revenue sports" (I am assuming, FB, BB, WR, Baseball)

also as far as hockey adding revenue,

Ohio State LOST 700k on MEN's hockey alone

At universities like Ohio State, the football team can make up for financial losses incurred by nonrevenue sports. Two seasons ago, OSU spent $349,195 on men's volleyball, which produced $37,594 in revenue. Also that season, ice hockey

[Smoggy]

Ohio State LOST 700k on MEN's hockey alone