The Division I question...

[elmduf]

What do you think the BSC is looking for?

I would think they would want an athletic department that is

1st. Financially sound. Well funded. With potential for a decent fan base.

UND may have an edge in the financial arena right now...but NDSU has the most potential for a larger fan base. Face it, that's the only "metro" area that North Dakota has.

I wouldn't write off Grand Forks as not having a large enough population base though. Look at what the other schools in the Big Sky Conference have...GF is in the game.

UNC lacks the $$$, but definately is in an area with enough of a population for the move to the BSC.

SDSU and Southern Utah: I honestly don't know enough about them.

2nd. Has the facilities to compete.

Both UND and NDSU blow away UNC in this area. They are probably ahead of both SDSU and Southern Utah in both of these areas. I can't imagine they wouldn't be. I'd even stack UND's athletic facilities up against Colorado State's in a heartbeat....

3rd. Competitiveness and tradition.

Note how this is third on the list. At THIS point in time it doesn't really matter that much. Are they good enough to compete now? Who cares. Will the above, #1 and #2 bring them to the level to compete...that's what's most important.

Allright.... Tear it apart!

[bisonguy]

elmduf,

Don't forget to throw in academic quality and mission. I'm not trying to start a quantitative argument, but rather I would state that NDSU, UND, and SDSU could be viewed as peers to Montana, Montana State, etc. I don't know enough about UNC's academics to make a call on them. Southern Utah has been rejected from the Big Sky before, mainly because of academics. Remember, it is the presidents of the universities that vote, not the AD's.

[tony]

I'm not saying the way UCA is doing things is the right way. I'm sure everyone would agree that the more discussion that goes on and having more information available is much better than leaving everyone in the dark. It's just funny that two different areas of the country can take such complete opposite approaches to the same issue.

I'm with my fellow NDSU grad. It's a whole different ballgame when the university is a state flagship. When Arkansas State moved up from DII, there was undoubtedly a lot more discussion.

[elmduf]

elmduf,

Don't forget to throw in academic quality and mission. I'm not trying to start a quantitative argument, but rather I would state that NDSU, UND, and SDSU could be viewed as peers to Montana, Montana State, etc. I don't know enough about UNC's academics to make a call on them. Southern Utah has been rejected from the Big Sky before, mainly because of academics. Remember, it is the presidents of the universities that vote, not the AD's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. UNC would probably rank lower than both UND, NDSU and SDSU in overall academics. But not that much lower, just one "tier" if you believe US News and World Report. If what you say about Southern Utah is true, that could make a difference and drop them off the radar.

I didn't realize that the University presidents vote on this issue, not the AD's. That's a good idea. The prestige of the University is also on the line, whether you agree that athletics should have a bearing on their prestige or not. That would probably raise the prospects for the schools from North and South Dakota.

[farce poobah]

I'm wondering what the folks at the U of South Dakota are thinking about all this ...

licking their chops at the chance to whup what's left of the NCC? ... or joining the parade ...

[Smoggy]

I'm wondering what the folks at the U of South Dakota are thinking about all this ...

licking their chops at the chance to whup what's left of the NCC? ... or joining the parade ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think if UND were to go, UNO would also look at going.

Lots of speculation, but I guess that's what message boards are for.

[GCWaters]

I think if UND were to go, UNO would also look at going.

Lots of speculation, but I guess that's what message boards are for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think UNO can move--something about the state constitution mandating only one d-1 team in the state system...

[elmduf]

I don't think UNO can move--something about the state constitution mandating only one d-1 team in the state system...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way the Huskers season went, they probably wouldn't want any competition, even at the I-AA level!

[UND Fan]

I think if UND were to go, UNO would also look at going.

Lots of speculation, but I guess that's what message boards are for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am quite sure that if UND left, UNO would quickly move to the MIAA - they are actually probably a better fit with the Missouri schools anyway.

I also am curious about USD. They have considered the move in the past - I am sure many of their alumni would really feel "left out" if the three other state schools from the Dakotas moved up. I truly don't know if they could afford it, however. I don't know if UND can either!!!

[jloos]

I didn't realize that the University presidents vote on this issue, not the AD's.  That's a good idea.  The prestige of the University is also on the line, whether you agree that athletics should have a bearing on their prestige or not.  That would probably raise the prospects for the schools from North and South Dakota.

When NDSU went D1 I received a letter from the Pres telling me my diploma was worth more because it is from a D1 school.

The letter was probably partially true. To be a D1 football school (that is D1A) they have to meet strict academic standards. Which is funny considering the majority of players they get fall far below the standards they set up

I don't know if NDSU had to change anything about admissions upon their move, but I would guess they did. Maybe the reason UND was talking about increasing their ACT scores had something to do with a possible move

Just speculation on my part, I really have no clue how the NCAA works, nor do I have any desire to learn.

[PCM]

When NDSU went D1 I received a letter from the Pres telling me my diploma was worth more because it is from a D1 school.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I pity the poor chumps who think their degrees from MIT are worth anything.

[IowaBison]

Maybe a bit off topic, but this is what amuses me the most about the whole Division I thing:

Last week, Central Arkansas (from the Gulf South Conference) announced that it was moving to Division I. The story came out in the papers down there a day or two after the December 1 deadline. There wasn't much fanfare and no indication that anyone outside of the administration had any idea what was going on. Central Arkansas had only been in Division II for about 10 years!

Anytime a school up here contemplates making a move, we hire consultants to do studies, conduct surveys, do more studies, conduct more surveys and on and on. Not to mention the 24/7 press coverage and "investigative reports" on the issue.

I'm not saying the way UCA is doing things is the right way. I'm sure everyone would agree that the more discussion that goes on and having more information available is much better than leaving everyone in the dark. It's just funny that two different areas of the country can take such complete opposite approaches to the same issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So UND has been completely upfront about their intentions? one day your President composes a derogatory letter about DI and DIAA football. Soon after you tell the Big Sky you're interested, kind of.

Also, there is nothing wrong with declaring a transition and then not moving save a few upset alums and fans. I believe that if UND really did have strong intentions they would have filed the paperwork before the first of the year.

[The Sicatoka]

Southern Utah has been rejected from the Big Sky before, mainly because of academics.

When NDSU went D1 I received a letter from the Pres telling me my diploma was worth more because it is from a D1 school.

Did Southern Utah graduates get a similar letter?

[PCM]

So UND has been completely upfront about their intentions?  one day your President composes a derogatory letter about DI and DIAA football.  Soon after you tell the Big Sky you're interested, kind of.

Also, there is nothing wrong with declaring a transition and then not moving save a few upset alums and fans.  I believe that if UND really did have strong intentions they would have filed the paperwork before the first of the year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, UND has been clear in its intentions. Just because you, the Fargo media and most Bison fan refuse to admit it doesn't mean it hasn't.

When UND decided not to go DI-AA, Kupchella said why. He also said that situation could change and UND would continue to evaluate its options as changes occurred. That's exactly what they've done.

Why don't you take your NDSU spin and post it at Bisonville.com where you have an audience that swallows your drivel hook, line and sinker?

[The Sicatoka]

Say Montana or Delaware were to move up to DI-A. Would they finish in the top 25 in their first DI-A season? NDSU and UNC moved from DII to DI-AA and finished in the top 25 in their first seasons. What's that say about the difference in competitive levels between DI-AA and DII? That's the message behind what Kupchella said. Is he wrong?

As far as "transitions", when would the BSC actually expand? When could they? How far out do BSC schools have FB and BB contracts already set for? The BSC really can't add teams and expand until they're sure those contracts won't be affected, right? How far out are BSC teams "booked". That'll say a lot about when they'll be able to play against new BSC members.

UND not sending an intent to transition petition to the NCAA by 12/01/04 means that they now have roughly 350 days to make 2005-2006 a transition year if they so decide.

[IowaBison]

Sicatoka, I believe it's '06-07 at the absolute earliest, most likely one or two years later. One issue is that UND is four years behind UNC and 3 behind NDSU and SDSU as far as playoff/tournament eligibility. Considering that all that had to be done was fill out a form, I'm surprised UND didn't do it, especially since it would definitely be possible for the WBB and Football teams to be in position to make the playoffs.

NDSU had a very good team this year, UNC save this year has had quality teams for the last seven seasons or so. To go from being a National Championship quality team, like UNC was, to being rated in the top 25 isn't that big of a switch. Now the difference between NDSU or UNC and a Georgia Southern night and day, they'd probably tag 40 on us and we'd be lucky to score more than once.

PCM, didn't mean to get you too riled up. I've been watching the administration pretty closely for about three years and imo UND has been anything but clear about their possible move. Feel free to disagree, I'm not trying to spin anything.

[PCM]

PCM, didn't mean to get you too riled up.  I've been watching the administration pretty closely for about three years and imo UND has been anything but clear about their possible move.  Feel free to disagree, I'm not trying to spin anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, but you are spinning like a top. I live in Grand Forks. I see, hear and read the news coverage about this issue almost every day. I've talked to Phil Harmeson and Roger Thomas. I've interviewed them on the air.

I can read Kupchella's words and decide for myself what they mean, which is nothing like your warped pro-NDSU interpretation.

What Harmeson and Thomas tell me privately is the same thing they've said publicly. I understand what they're doing and why they're doing it. I understand that they are in a difficult position and trying to do what's in the best interest of UND.

If you want to be confused about the situation, fine, be confused. That's your choice.

[pentaxman46]

If the BSC expands I can't imagine that they would take in more than 2 new schools. It seems like a slam dunk that Northern Colorado and Southern Utah fit their geographic mold far better than any of the Dakota schools. I would be shocked if any of the Dakota colleges got an invite.

DG

[IowaBison]

[The Sicatoka]

I heard PCM interviewing Phil Harmeson, first intermission, Friday, November 19, 2004, in the game versus St. Cloud State on the Clear Channel North Dakota Fighting Sioux Hockey Radio Network.

What Harmeson said there matched everything I've read and heard from UND.

PS - I've also corresponded privately with Harmeson on the topic. The consistency is there as well.

[The Sicatoka]

UND not sending an intent to transition petition to the NCAA by 12/01/04 means that they now have roughly 350 days to make 2005-2006 a transition year if they so decide.

Sicatoka, I believe it's '06-07 at the absolute earliest, most likely one or two years later. 

Huh? Weren't you one of the folks surprised that UND didn't fax a petition to transision by 12/01/04 so 2004-2005 could be the transitional year?

Now it's by 12/01/05 to make 2005-2006 the transitional (and accordingly 2006-2007 the first as a DI), again assuming that's the direction UND takes.

[NDSU grad]

[IowaBison]

[The Sicatoka]

He may have been referring to the story in the Forum which stated UND would begin their explatory year in 2006.  However, this wasn't a direct quote so I don't know if the writers were just speculating that that's when the Sioux would begin their process or if that's Thomas actually said.  Also, it's been reported that UND would honor all existing contracts, so that may be why 2006 would be the target date.

Without a quote it can only be taken as speculation from the author.

You mean football contractual obligations could come into play in all of this? You mean like this?

As far as "transitions", when would the BSC actually expand? When could they? How far out do BSC schools have FB and BB contracts already set for? The BSC really can't add teams and expand until they're sure those contracts won't be affected, right? How far out are BSC teams "booked". That'll say a lot about when they'll be able to play against new BSC members.

[The Sicatoka]

I was responding to the when will the Big Sky add members, sorry I should have quoted it.

What is the Big Sky most interested in?

(a) Members who were first to jump into the DI-AA pool.

(b) Members who are the right type of school (academics, athletics) for the profile of the conference and where it wants to go in a decade or more timeframe.

If a couple years on probation aren't a big deal to a transitional school, wouldn't a conference have to carry a similar opinion if they were getting what they wanted and going in the direction they want to?