UND moving up?

[The Sicatoka]

A new 6000 seat arena at Gonzaga cost them $23 MM. Comparable enough?

Let me say this again:

Why build The Betty larger?

Look at the easy scaling available to UND:

3500-4000 seats - The Betty

5000-6000 seats - The Ralph (lower bowl and suites)

8000-9000 seats - The Alerus Center (BB config.)

10000-13000 seats - The Ralph (full house)

star2city makes an excellent point in using that difference in dollars to work on other facilities needs (Olympic sports, baseball, more training space).

PS - I'll say it again: Gonzaga's BB program has played in a 4000 seat arena up to this point. Sounds just like the size of The Betty to me and Gonzaga doesn't have options like The Al and The Ralph.

[dakotadan]

Yeah, we could also put up lighting at Memorial and play some night games there. Or maybe Red River will let us play a couple of games in their gym. This isn't some junior high traveling team. UND should have one home for basketball, and as far as I am aware that was supposed to be the purpose for the Betty.

[UND92,96]

To put things in a little different perspective, at least we didn't build a football stadium that only seats a little over 4000, like a certain one of our NCC/WCHA brethren!

[bigmrg74]

4000? Hell, that would be more than what Bentley had when they hosted GVSU in the first round of the Playoffs last year. Looked to me like it was seating for maybe 2000, and everybody else just ringed the field. I was sure glad for that NCAA mandated Away team fan's section.

[IowaBison]

maybe that gives you guys an idea of what D2 football is in the rest of the country?

it is good that selke is selling out for your game, they might add a couple hundred seats for next year

[UND92,96]

maybe that gives you guys an idea of what D2 football is in the rest of the country?

it is good that selke is selling out for your game, they might add a couple hundred seats for next year

Division II football has its issues, to be sure, but I'm not sure I'd make that kind of a generalization. If I'm not mistaken, the UNC-NDSU game wasn't exactly a huge draw despite the fact that it was a good matchup, but I wouldn't use that as an indictment of I-AA football as a whole.

[IowaBison]

no, but UNC is an exception in DIAA, while SCSU, Bentley, etc are definitely the norm in d2

after leaving the state for a couple of years, i realized that UND and NDSU have no business being D2, that's the big reason why i think you guys should move up

[Bisonfan1234]

no, but UNC is an exception in DIAA, while SCSU, Bentley, etc are definitely the norm in d2

after leaving the state for a couple of years, i realized that UND and NDSU have no business being D2, that's the big reason why i think you guys should move up

I'm a big fan of the NCAA completely redoing the classification system based on only 2 things: required # of scholarships (vs. maximum) and average attendance.

EG Football could have a BCS division where avg. attendance must be 40000+ and scholarships must be 85.D1 could be 10000+ and schol. must be 65. D2 could be 1000+ and schol. must be 35.D3 could be any attendance, schol. must be 15 and D4 would be any attendance no scholarships.

[UND92,96]

no, but UNC is an exception in DIAA, while SCSU, Bentley, etc are definitely the norm in d2

after leaving the state for a couple of years, i realized that UND and NDSU have no business being D2, that's the big reason why i think you guys should move up

And I have no doubt that UND will be moving up within a few years. My point is more that SCSU's or UNC's traditionally meager attendance figures are their own fault, rather than a byproduct of being in a particular NCAA classification. St. Cloud in particular is a pretty big community, and the school has a bigger enrollment than UND. It also draws well for both hockey and basketball, so it's a little hard to understand why it shouldn't be able to draw 8000-plus for football, obviously assuming that it had built a facility that could have handled those types of crowds.

[bigmrg74]

I'm a big fan of the NCAA completely redoing the classification system based on only 2 things: required # of scholarships (vs. maximum) and average attendance.

EG Football could have a BCS division where avg. attendance must be 40000+ and scholarships must be 85.D1 could be 10000+ and schol. must be 65. D2 could be 1000+ and schol. must be 35.D3 could be any attendance, schol. must be 15 and D4 would be any attendance no scholarships.

You know, you just might be on to something there BF. I would have the numbers a little differently than you, but its defently an idea. Personally, I wouldn't mind if you could do the same thing as you do in College Hockey, be one Division for football and another Division for other sports.

[dakotadan]

One problem I see with being able to play each sport in a different division is that you would end up with thousands of conferences. Such as the NCC, it would end up basically being a basketball conference, we would have to start up a new DI-aa conference for our football programs(or join the GWFC), and I am sure there are schools that would drop some of their sports down to DIII. The whole concept of a conference would be basically thrown out of the window with all the sports playing in different divisions.

Hey, I believe this is my 100th post. Next goal, hitting four figure numbers.

[Bisonfan1234]

One problem I see with being able to play each sport in a different division is that you would end up with thousands of conferences. Such as the NCC, it would end up basically being a basketball conference, we would have to start up a new DI-aa conference for our football programs(or join the GWFC), and I am sure there are schools that would drop some of their sports down to DIII. The whole concept of a conference would be basically thrown out of the window with all the sports playing in different divisions.

Hey, I believe this is my 100th post. Next goal, hitting four figure numbers.

Is it a bad thing if every sport has a different conference?

The only sport that matters is football anyway.

[jimdahl]

I'm a big fan of the NCAA completely redoing the classification system based on only 2 things: required # of scholarships (vs. maximum) and average attendance.

EG Football could have a BCS division where avg. attendance must be 40000+ and scholarships must be 85.D1 could be 10000+ and schol. must be 65. D2 could be 1000+ and schol. must be 35.D3 could be any attendance, schol. must be 15 and D4 would be any attendance no scholarships.

I made eerily similar musings back in the old DIAA forum, but also managed to come up with enough problems that I thought were showstoppers.

[bisonguy]

I made eerily similar musings back in the old DIAA forum, but also managed to come up with enough problems that I thought were showstoppers.

Jim, a NCAA DII or DIII school cannot participate in DI Baseball, either (per your old post you linked to). Football, Basketball, and Baseball (not sure if women's softball is also included) are the only sports that a DII or DIII school cannot participate at the DI level.

[Cratter]

Jim, a NCAA DII or DIII school cannot participate in DI Baseball, either (per your old post you linked to). Football, Basketball, and Baseball (not sure if women's softball is also included) are the only sports that a DII or DIII school cannot participate at the DI level.

When did they add baseball to that list?

[bisonguy]

When did they add baseball to that list?

Doh!

I could have sworn that baseball was listed in there, but after checking section 20.4.1.3 on page 362 of the NCAA DI Manual, it clearly states that it's only football, men's basketball, and women's basketball. Interesting, hockey doesn't count against the one men's program playing at the DI level quota, as there isn't a DII championship.

Edit- I should have known better than to question Jim's knowledge of the NCAA books.

[huskies679]

And I have no doubt that UND will be moving up within a few years. My point is more that SCSU's or UNC's traditionally meager attendance figures are their own fault, rather than a byproduct of being in a particular NCAA classification. St. Cloud in particular is a pretty big community, and the school has a bigger enrollment than UND. It also draws well for both hockey and basketball, so it's a little hard to understand why it shouldn't be able to draw 8000-plus for football, obviously assuming that it had built a facility that could have handled those types of crowds.

I think the SCSU stadium is a bit small but it can be expanded. Honestly, I am happy with the size and I feel that we have algreat deal to prove when it comes to football attendance. Someday, if SCSU can build a tradition and prove that they can fill the stands year after year, then expand the place.

St Cloud metro is a community that is not isolated like Fargo or Grand Forks. The entertainment $ is tough to get. I can make it to downtown Mpls in less than an hour. In Grand Forks UND is king as NDSU is in Fargo. When it comes to football, the St Cloud metro is bitterly divided between SCSU and SJU(DIII). Darn German Catholics! And they have a great deal of tradition. There are few fans "from the woods" that attend SCSU games and we typically do not go to theirs. Their crowd consists of lots of alumni and students. Our crowd is mainly St Cloud metro folk and few students.

So for now I feel the stadium is sufficient.

[NDSU grad]

I think the SCSU stadium is a bit small but it can be expanded. Honestly, I am happy with the size and I feel that we have algreat deal to prove when it comes to football attendance. Someday, if SCSU can build a tradition and prove that they can fill the stands year after year, then expand the place.

St Cloud metro is a community that is not isolated like Fargo or Grand Forks. The entertainment $ is tough to get. I can make it to downtown Mpls in less than an hour. In Grand Forks UND is king as NDSU is in Fargo. When it comes to football, the St Cloud metro is bitterly divided between SCSU and SJU(DIII). Darn German Catholics! And they have a great deal of tradition. There are few fans "from the woods" that attend SCSU games and we typically do not go to theirs. Their crowd consists of lots of alumni and students. Our crowd is mainly St Cloud metro folk and few students.

So for now I feel the stadium is sufficient.

There's no way you're making it to downtown Minneapolis in an hour unless you're traveling at 2 in the morning/ I've come through the cities about three times in the last month and the fastest I've made it through (I-35 "splitoff" to 494/94 intersection) is about 1 hour and 15 minutes. They've got to get the construction on 494 done. Now, back on topic, can St. Cloud's stadium be expanded easily. It seems like with the layout if they do have overflow there would be plenty of nice standing room.

[UND92,96]

I think the SCSU stadium is a bit small but it can be expanded.  Honestly,  I am happy with the size and I feel that we have algreat deal to prove when it comes to football attendance.  Someday, if SCSU can build a tradition and prove that they can fill the stands year after year, then expand the place.

St Cloud metro is a community that is not isolated like Fargo or Grand Forks.  The entertainment $ is tough to get.  I can make it to downtown Mpls in less than an hour.  In Grand Forks UND is king as NDSU is in Fargo.  When it comes to football, the St Cloud metro is bitterly divided between SCSU and SJU(DIII).  Darn German Catholics!  And they have a great deal of tradition.  There are few fans "from the woods" that attend SCSU games and we typically do not go to theirs.  Their crowd consists of lots of alumni and students.  Our crowd is mainly St Cloud metro folk and few students.

So for now I feel the stadium is sufficient.

I am pretty familiar with the situation in St. Cloud as my sister has lived there for several years. What always strikes me when I visit is how St. Cloud has no local television stations, due to its proximity to the twin cities. That means no highlights or features on SCSU sports on the local news. Also, while it does have a newspaper, I assume a lot of people read the Star-Tribune instead. What this means, in my opinion, is that a lot of people in St. Cloud are completely ignorant about what is going on with SCSU sports unless they were already big fans. I think that it's this media void, rather than all the other entertainment options in the cities, which really hurts SCSU's visibility even in its own community. It probably follows that this lack of media coverage, and fan support, is used against SCSU in recruiting by other NCC schools.

With all of that said, I still think it was very short-sighted of SCSU to have built a new football stadium with essentially the same capacity as Selke, which was the smallest in the NCC by quite a bit (I know UMD's is pretty small, too). I don't know what the answer is with regard to increasing fan support, but I don't think the problem is necessarily unfixable. Unless there simply wasn't any more money available, I have to think it's easier to build a 7000 or 8000 seat (roughly) stadium to begin with rather than having to add on later. It certainly won't get any less expensive as time passes.

[Bisonfan1234]

There's no way you're making it to downtown Minneapolis in an hour unless you're traveling at 2 in the morning/ I've come through the cities about three times in the last month and the fastest I've made it through (I-35 "splitoff" to 494/94 intersection) is about 1 hour and 15 minutes. They've got to get the construction on 494 done. Now, back on topic, can St. Cloud's stadium be expanded easily. It seems like with the layout if they do have overflow there would be plenty of nice standing room.

Take 35W to US 10 to St Cloud, then hop off on 23 and take that to 94.

[huskies679]

You bring up very valid points. The media here is out of the Twin Cities so the only air time SCSU gets is when we play The U in hockey. In a metro area of 178,000 the St. Cloud Times only has 29,000 daily (weekday) paper subscribers including area stations and stores. Mankato has local TV and we have larger gates than they do in every sport. What is the answer.

While I feel the stadium is ok for now, I know it should have been built larger. Things went over budget because of the steel prices. Anybody who is in construction knows that building material prices in the last year have gotten out of hand. So now there are 4300 seats rather that 6000. I don't know if we could fill 6000 seats.

The athletic department is horrible at promoting SCSU Football and the booster club is extremely unorganized. There are tons of people that give and are never put in the programs so it looks like there are about only 100 boosters. They have promoted hockey and looks what happens, every game is a sell out.

[Bisonfan1234]

Clearwater and Monticello are growing big enough to where they almost connect the NW corner of the TC meter to the SC metro.

That being said, SC doesn't need their own TV where Rochester does (pretty sure Mankato gets cover by Roch.).

[Hansel]

Aid plan opposed by UNO's Danenhauer

proposal to reduce the maximum scholarship total for NCAA Division II football programs from 36 to 24 has the University of Nebraska at Omaha concerned about its program.

"We're against it," UNO Athletic Director Bob Danenhauer said. "From what we've been told, the president's council is against it, the management council is against it, and the student-athlete advisory committee is against it, so when you've got all those folks against it, it's going to be tough to get it passed."

The Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference and the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference are co-sponsors of the proposal, which will be voted upon at the NCAA Convention in Dallas on Jan. 10.

UNO, as with most members of the North Central Conference, offers the full 36 scholarships currently allowed