BinaIsGod Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Bert is currently suspended indefinitely, and will probably be out for the rest of the season, and deserves to be out for all of, if not at least part of, the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Bert is currently suspended indefinitely, and will probably be out for the rest of the season, and deserves to be out for all of, if not at least part of, the playoffs. The NHL is making their ruling on this tomorrow...I seriously hope it is for the rest of the season. Ray Ferraro commented on this and said he played in a game where Jeff Bukeboom was cheapshoted in a sililar matter. The only difference was that Todd Bertuzzi had 2 weeks to think about what he was going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Go Stars Go Kings Why? Dallas Stars head coach Dave Tippett: UND - 1981 to 1983. LA Kings head coach Andy Murray's son Brady plays for the good guys. Me, a homer? Ne-e-e-ver. don't forget his assistant: Rick Wilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmrg74 Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Bertuzzi has been called a Coke Machine on skate's before, but that was assault there. Moore had no shot fighting against him. If all Bertuzzi wanted to do was just to wail on the poor guy to send a message, he could have just grabbed him and spin him around to dance on him. Then Moore could have either fought the punk and get his ass handed to him, or he could have Turtled like that dirty Claude Lemeiox (sp?) did when McCarty went after him. There are right ways to do things and then there are wrong ways. Bertuzzi should be out for the rest of the year, part of next year, go see a shrink, and have to work with Paralysed patients at a hospital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I don't know much about Crawford, but what I do understand is the Canucks GM (Burke is it?). He is a strong advocate for Bertuzzi. Why? Well, you see, during the Canuck-Red Wing series a while back it just so happened that Bertuzzi had a tenacity to run the goaltender. Well, he did it only 4 times IN ONE GAME. Bert manages to only get called twice (If my memory serves me correctly) and Burke goes on a press conference rampage about it. Sorry,m Burke, he should have been penalized 4 times instead of 2! In any case, Bertuzzi is a great defensive forward with some offensive talent and an ego the size of the Northern territories of Canada. Unfortunately for him, he ended his season, if not ended his career with Vancouver. And unfortunately for those who dislike the Canucks, Burke's GM career with Vancouver is apparently over as well come the end of the season (contract expires). Fighting has a place in hockey: sticking up for teammates or trying to fire up the team. However, I advocate for the end of the "enforcer" position in hockey. I don't like the Peter Worrells, the Donald Brashears, or the Scott Parkers (he's my least favorite of all of them) of the NHL. Little to no defensive or offensive qualities to them. They just go out on the ice and rough some guy up. I'd rather have a Vanek (all offensive might and absolutely nothing defensively) out on the ice than a guy whose only talent is thuggery. There is nothing wrong with being an accomplished fighter who can live up the other aspects of the game. For example, Scott Stevens knows how to throw it down but at the same time he is one of the top defensemen in the NHL in other areas. As some may not like Maltby and McCarty of the Red Wings are the same way. They can score and they can fight. Hatcher and Pronger can too. But Scott Parker MIGHT have 5 points his entire NHL career but a hell of a lot of majors. That's not a productive hockey player at all. As for NHL coaches: My favorite is retired (Scotty Bowman). But I like Tippett and Murray. Especially Murray, who is, if the Kings make the playoffs, slated to win NHL Coach of the Year for making the playoffs with half (exaggeration) of his team on the IR list for most of the season. Lammorello is the best GM in hockey. Hands down. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Fighting has a place in hockey: sticking up for teammates or trying to fire up the team. However, I advocate for the end of the "enforcer" position in hockey I agree that fighting will continue to have its place in hockey, but I'm not sure how you can put an end to the "enforcer" position. How would this exactly be done? I don't think you actually have to officially designate a guy on your team as the "enforcer", therefore I'm not sure how you wuold eliminate these guys from the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I don't understand how you can hate the Stars. Judging by your handle, I'm assuming that's the team you grew up cheering for. It sucks that they moved, but they're still the Stars. Granted, they were previously known as the North Stars. But they were simply referred to by their fans as the Stars, similar to how the Vikings are referred to as the Vikes. I'm a Penguins fan, but I always liked the Stars too. I don't like them any more or less in Dallas than I liked them in Minnesota. It would be nice if they had stayed in Minnesota, but that's beside the point. Now if they had completely changed their identity like the Nordiques/Avalance, Jets/Coyotes, or Whalers/Hurricanes... that would be a different story. But the Stars wore the same uniforms their first year in Dallas that they wore their last year in Minnesota. I have never understood the concept of their fans hating them after they moved. We hate them because they left and they were OUR team. Norm Greed pretended to make an effort to increase revenues by sending a letter to season ticket holders wondering if the North Stars should move to the Civic Center or the Target Center. It was a cover as he was planning on moving the team all along. As a fan, it felt like a stab in the back... As far as coaches go...I like Jaques Lemaire, but I hate his systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I agree that fighting will continue to have its place in hockey, but I'm not sure how you can put an end to the "enforcer" position. How would this exactly be done? I don't think you actually have to officially designate a guy on your team as the "enforcer", therefore I'm not sure how you wuold eliminate these guys from the game. I see your point, but I guess I define the position differently than most. I define the "enforcer" position as someone who is there because of his fighting ability. Ending this position means that, in order to crack the lineup, you must be worth something to the team in more than just a physical nature. Can you play good defense? Can you play smart hockey? Can you make the good outlet pass? Can you contribute offensively (if you are a forward). My post was misleading about Scott Parker, as David Hale only has 4 or 5 points this season and none of them are goals (though I haven't checked lately). However, he's doing ok defensively apart from just fighting. I don't want to see people who's only striking quality is fighting, like Scott Parker. Contribute in more than one way or let someone else come up from the minors to do it in his stead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I don't want to see people who's only striking quality is fighting, like Scott Parker. Contribute in more than one way or let someone else come up from the minors to do it in his stead. I agree with you on this point. Interesting to see the story on ESPN regarding Bertuzzi. They ran down some of the more famous incidents like this one and the suspensions that followed. I found it very interesting to see that Tony Granato himself hit a Blackhawks player with a slash across the head. I believe he received around 15 games for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 For some reason my computer has a problem downloading the codec (whatever that means) and I can't play it. The other fights on the sight won't work either. MNS go here and download this http://www.divx.com/divx if you want to be able to watch codec stuff. At least I think this is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 (edited) I'm not a big fan of fighting, but I'm not a big fan of players being cheap shot all the time. When Gretsky played in the 80s he had his protection. Guys who were there to make sure someone didn't take a run at The Great One. With fighting rules the way they are now, you're seeing a lot more dirty work. This is because the players aren't allowed to police themselves anymore with the fight instigator penalty. I heard/read somewhere that the GM's are looking at dropping this rule, because the refs aren't doing a good enough job enforcing them. I think the fighting needs to be there, but I don't like it when two guys have it planned. For instance, when I saw the Wild play LA the other night, two players fought as soon as the opening faceoff was over. Are you kidding me? How could they have been that mad at each other to know to drop the gloves right then? Edited March 10, 2004 by cheeringsiouxfromsmoggycali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I'm not a big fan of fighting, but I'm not a big fan of players being cheap shot all the time. When Gretsky played in the 80s he had his protection. Guys who were there to make sure someone didn't take a run at The Great One. Gretzky had one Marty McSorley watching his back in Las Angeles. Not a lot of people went after him. I think the fighting needs to be there, but I don't like it when two guys have it planned. For instance, when I saw the Wild play LA the other night, two players fought as soon as the opening faceoff was over. Are you kidding me? How could they have been that mad at each other to know to drop the gloves right then? Jawing before the face off would be my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Jawing before the face off would be my guess. I can see the jawing, but this fight was rediculous. The dropped the gloves right away and then danced around the rink for thirty seconds before locking up and throwing some punches. A hockey fight should be spontaneous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 For some reason my computer has a problem downloading the codec (whatever that means) and I can't play it. The other fights on the sight won't work either. Don't be disapointed if you can't view the incident in question. It was a ugly incident. The game was way out of hand by the time this incident happened. Worrell had been in like three fights, Brad May was challenging David Abisher. Ugly, ugly game. I am sure there is going to be a few fines coming from this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 The players can't help it that the franchise was relocated. I realize Modano is the only player remaining from the last season in Minnesota, but the former fans who hate the Stars hated them right away when the team moved. In 1993-94, the first year in Dallas... those were the same players you cheered for in 1992-93 wearing the same uniforms. The players don't decide if the team is going to move or stay, they just have to go along with whatever happens. Hate Norm Green, hate the fans who didn't go to any games and made the team play in front of half-empty arenas for much of their last few years in Minnesota, hate the fact that they moved, but don't take it out on the players. It isn't their fault. Norm Green doesn't even own the Stars anymore. Ok, Minnesota fans hate the Dallas Stars....Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 This is because the players aren't allowed to police themselves anymore with the fight instigator penalty. One of the worst rules they ever came up with, IMHO. They need to get rid of this asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Barn Guy Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 McSorely was on the Edmonton team with Gretzky, but it was Semenko who was really Wayne's guardian, playing wing on his line most of the time. They didn't nickname him "Cement Head" for nothing, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Ok, Minnesota fans hate the Dallas Stars....Get over it. I hated Norm Green, not the team. I really wanted the Wild to use the "North Stars" name. That would have meant a lot to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 McSorely was on the Edmonton team with Gretzky, but it was Semenko who was really Wayne's guardian, playing wing on his line most of the time. They didn't nickname him "Cement Head" for nothing, you know. When The Great One was in Edmonton, he had a whole posse of bodyguards: "Cement Head," McSorley, and don't kid yourselves, Glen Anderson was out there not only because he had a great shot, but he could also deliver a great (right cross) shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighting Sioux Fan Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Yeah, I realize that. I just don't agree with it. I was a fan of the original Oakland Raiders... supported them through a move to Los Angeles and then a move back to Oakland. Although I'm glad they returned to Oakland... Oakland or Los Angeles isn't what really matters most. What matters most is that they're the Raiders. Same goes for the Stars in my opinion. Minnesota or Dallas... they're still the Stars, and that means more to me than what city they call home. Not trying to start a flame war with you, you're entitled to like or dislike whatever teams you want to like or dislike. I'm just offering another opinion. My opinion is that you grow up cheering for whatever team you like, and then you stick with that team through both good times and bad. That makes the reward so much sweeter when your team wins a championship. I personally can't imagine having a favorite team throughout my childhood and then at some point during my adult life deciding to become a fan of a different team. I'll go way out on a limb and speculate that you cheer for the Wild now... is that correct? I'm glad Minnesota has another NHL team, but I have a hard time understanding how a person who remembers the NHL before the Wild were part of it can all of a sudden call the Wild their favorite team. If you do cheer for the Wild now, was there another team you cheered for during the seven seasons Minnesota went without an NHL team? If so, that would mean you had three different favorite teams in less than 10 years. That's messed up. Comparing the Raider moving to LA is nothing like the Stars moving to Dallas. LA is only a few hundred miles away and is much easier to get to from Oakland than it is to get to Dallas from Minnesota. I felt betrayed that the Stars left and so does a lot of people. How could Minnesota be the State of Hockey without a pro team? Norm Green deserved to be strung up for moving the team. But now we have a new team! Now they just need to win more consistently and bring in more players. I would actually be more happy if Winnipeg got a team to move there because it is only a two hour drive compared to a five hour drive to St. Paul. But what ever happens, I will always dislike the Stars. To me they are the Packers of the NHL, but that is my own opinion. GO SIOUX!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Glen Anderson was out there not only because he had a great shot, but he could also deliver a great (right cross) shot. Are you kidding me? Glenn Anderson hardly qualified as an enforcer. The guy was a 50-goal scorer with some of the best wheels I've ever seen. Not sure where you get the idea he was a heavy hitter. Yes, Semenko was Gretzky's "bodyguard" during the Edmonton years, as well as guys like Kevin McLelland and even Mark Messier, who frequently dropped the gloves in his younger years. Then McSorley and guys like Jay Miller rode shotgun for Gretzky during the LA years. But Glenn freaking Anderson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 The few times Anderson did "throw 'em" the other guy got the worse end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I hated Norm Green, not the team. I really wanted the Wild to use the "North Stars" name. That would have meant a lot to me. That would have been cool, but the Dallas team would have had to change their name for that to happen. Can't have the Stars and North Stars in the same league, because the North Stars were always referred to by their fans as the Stars. That would be like like having one NFL team called the Vikes and another called the Vikings. It just wouldn't work. I guess that's the one nice thing about the Jets changing their name to Coyotes when they moved. If Winnipeg ever gets another team they could bring back the Jets name. But if they don't the Jets are gone forever. If they were the Phoenix Jets I would still follow them, but the Coyotes name just doesn't mean anything to me. I think of the Red Sox and the White Sox and I think it could still work. Yet I understand your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloos Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 This just in... Bertuzzi suspended for the rest of the season, including the playoffs. He must apply for reinstatement for next year's season, 2004-2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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