Adjusting Expectations

[RD17]

I know you have been around the board for a long time and know UND history.  Which I obviously respect.  But, it seems to me that you have an axe to grind with Bubba about something.  How you could throw out blanket statements after 1.5 seasons is beyond me.  

I can verify that the coaching staff was shocked and/or stunned at the lack of talent on this roster at all positions when they showed up in January, 2014.  Watching winter workouts produced many ulcers for them.  There were lineman beating cornerbacks in quickness/agility drills.  

Pulling redshirts is not uncommon now.  Kids are much more knowledgable and developed out of high school due to better programs at the HS's.  Plus, it has been proven that unless you get the Juco kid you want, a HS kid is probably better.  At least at UND it has proven to be that way.  NDSU is playing 4 true freshmen and they supposedly have a national championship level roster of pure blue-chips.  See the need?

They have tried to fill in Juco's and FBS transfers to "win now" while developing the HS kids.  More than not they have been busts.  Last year they signed 27 HS kids and are playing 7 of them.  All seven, minus Iwarri Smith and Palmborg (walk-on playing due to need-no other choice), have contributed immensely this year.  I too question the use of Iwarri at this point due to the emergence of Oliveira and Santiago.  But, nobody knew they were going to be healthy all year and the coaches must have felt they needed at least 3 guys with some experience in case of injury.  Plus, Arrington (FBS) never panned out at all due to injury.  So they needed Smith to be ready.  

You can look at Bubba's history and rightly point out the downfalls.  They are there and undeniable.  He got this job due to his tie to UND in the past, agreed.  But when looking at the applicants I cannot name one that was 'no doubt' better.  

Another way to look at this is UND is 4-4 and lost to Idaho State after Studsrud went out and therefore couldn't milk the clock like they had done so successfully against Drake and UC Davis.  They lost by 1 point to Weber for the exact same reason.  4th quarter they couldn't piss a drop and Weber started throwing all over them.  

If I recall UND did go out to Wyoming and kick the hell out of the Cowboys for UND's first ever FBS win.  They played some bad Idaho teams and couldn't even beat them in the past.  That was a pretty big win.  

So was Portland State where UND was playing with Studsrud, Taj Rich, and Reyes for majority of the game.  That team looked pretty damn good in dominating the Vikings, who are now the cream of the Big Sky.  Having their starters tends to make a thin team look better.  

There is no depth yet and it showed up the past 3 weeks.  It culminated at Missoula when they got rolled by a team with playmakers.  UND needs more experienced cornerbacks, not a true freshman and true sophomore, to go along with a sophomore safety (Reyes) and two walk-on safeties.  

I don't have anything against Bubba at all. I'm simply calling it as I see it. I do know that Bubba's last team at UMD won 4 games and when Nielson took over the next year they won 15 and a national championship. There are people in Duluth that would tell you no chance that team wins the championship without Nielson running the show. Of course it's entirely possible for coaches to grow and improve and I hope that's the case with Bubba. 

Yes, there have been injuries this year, but even with the injuries UND was good enough to establish double digit second half leads two weeks in a row only to blow both games.That's on the coaches. It can happen to anyone once in awhile. A great head coach doesn't allow it to happen two weeks in a row. A great football mind once told me this about college coaching and it's almost always true: If a guy is the right fit to turn around a program you will see significant progress in year two and a complete turnaround by year three. Do you really think that's happening at UND?

On the red shirts, yes it makes sense with Santiago, Dranka and Greely last year or anyone good enough to step in and play a major role immediately. But pulling shirts just to add a little depth in another rebuilding year makes no sense at all and really isn't fair to the players. It's using their worst year and losing their best year. Think about a guy like Will Ratelle. If he had played as a true freshman he wouldn't be on the field this year. The comparison to NDSU is irrelevant because their program is in a completely different spot. They can afford to burn a couple red shirts to win now while UND needs to be more conservative while they are rebuilding.

Whether or not Wyoming is FBS means squat. Good football is good football and crap is crap. UND should have learned from Sioux Falls that winners win and labels and divisions don't mean much. NDSU has proven that when they regularly beat Big 12 teams. Wyoming stinks and they'd probably be a 3 win team in the Big Sky.

And as I said before, if this doesn't work I don't pin it all on Bubba because I don't think UND has the institutional fortitude or leadership it takes to succeed in football (or men's basketball for that matter) at the DI level. 

 

[UND-1]

Everyone ripped UND for never winning an FBS game.  Now they do win one, dominate in doing it, and it doesn't count.  WTF do people want?  

My points stand and we will have to disagree.  I watch 90% of UND's games and feel I have a pretty good handle on things.

[Longtime fan]

Anybody think they should try and move Smith to safety? I'm not sure he has the creativity to play RB, or the ability to protect himself. He's too linear with his runs. Maybe he could be a really good safety. He looked damn good on defense in HS. He's got the size and the speed and the hands.

Cant say for sure about the move to safety, but the one thing thats for certain is his talent!  Talent is needed at wr, so if I had a vote, keep him there.  I agree with his run style as a rb, much to upright and the punishment he could sustain.  Santiago and brady make a great combo for 4 yrs and I like the idea of Clive, iwarri, and dulin at wr next yr.  still very young next yr but a boatload of talent and potential. 

[UND-1]

RD17, I don't seem to ever remember you being this hostile about UND Football.  What changed?  Two weeks ago UND was in the Top 25.  Now they lose a couple and fall to 4-4 and you come in and go ape sh-t on the staff.  

Seems strange to me.  

[shep]

I don't agree wholly with RD17 but I found his thoughts interesting and he put out some things I didn't know about Bubba. Full disclosure, I was one who wanted to rid the hockey team of Hak. Not saying get rid of Bubba, but the points made are significant.

I like to be a loyal fan, but honestly I can't take the cool-aid some times and I think RD17 was a refreshing twist to that.

 

[bincitysioux]

As far as adjusting expectations go,  I admit that I got very optimistic (overly so) about the season after the fast start.  I was peeking at polls, and playoff possibilites after the PSU game.  Now, here we are at 4-4.  Which, in the long run, is about where I thought we'd be right now when I looked at schedules and evaluated depth charts coming out of spring ball.

If you want to call it an excuse, go ahead.  But the injuries this team has sustained the last several weeks are the biggest reason IMO for the lack luster results the past 3 weeks.  Yeah, yeah, every team has injuries.  But UND isn't in a place YET where they can overcome them.  In 3 years hopefully they will be because that is what good programs do.  But we are a little more than a season and a half into a huge reclamation project that not only saw coaching turnover, but also significant player turnover, for better or worse.

After Mussman was let go, we lost arguably 2 of the 10 best wide receivers in all of FCS in Kenny Golladay and Jameer Jackson.  Given how horrid our receivers are, still having those two would make a world of difference.

The secondary has been atrocious for 5 years.  Then you have two starting safeties get injured and an opening day SR starting CB quits when he gets pushed by an underclassmen.  Depth, depth, depth.

I thought Dustin Iverson figured to be a big part of the offense as a blocker, receiver, and team leader.  He's gone due to stupidity.

This summer I think I said best case scenario is that UND goes 7-4 this year.  That was assuming there were no injuries to any key players.  That is still attainable I suppose, but I think is looking unlikely right now.  So I guess I am saying that if my personal opinion was that 7-4 would be the high-water mark this year, I'm not going to get too bent out of shape being 4-4 at this point in the season.  They could still win out and be 7-4.  They could also lose the rest and be 4-7.  Either way, I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the season or on this coaching staff.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  If we had started 1-4 (which was very possible) and were now sitting at 4-4, the tone of this board would be far different.

 

Bubba has had almost six seasons as a head coach at two different schools. He now has 31-32 career record. UMD was 36-11 the four seasons before he took the job, 22-21 the four years he was there, then 52-5 the four years after he left. He oversaw a defense on some very mediocre SIU teams that gave up 38 points or more 11 times in his last four years there. Would he have even gotten an interview if it wasn't for his history with the school?

 

He probably would not have gotten an interview if not for his history here.  DeBoer was the other finalist, and he probably wouldn't have been interviewed either if not for his win against UND while at USF.

Also probably shouldn't over look the fact that in the four years Bubba was head coach at UMD, they were in the NCC.  The preceding 4 years they were in the NSIC and the succeeding four years they were in the NSIC.  He was coach of the year in the NCC in 2005.  Every single player that was a member of UMD's 2008 National Championship team was recruited by Bubba.  16 of his 21 losses while at UMD were to NCC schools, and one more was to an FCS school.  He was leading them against a whole different level of competition.

[shep]

As far as adjusting expectations go,  I admit that I got very optimistic (overly so) about the season after the fast start.  I was peeking at polls, and playoff possibilites after the PSU game.  Now, here we are at 4-4.  Which, in the long run, is about where I thought we'd be right now when I looked at schedules and evaluated depth charts coming out of spring ball.

If you want to call it an excuse, go ahead.  But the injuries this team has sustained the last several weeks are the biggest reason IMO for the lack luster results the past 3 weeks.  Yeah, yeah, every team has injuries.  But UND isn't in a place YET where they can overcome them.  In 3 years hopefully they will be because that is what good programs do.  But we are a little more than a season and a half into a huge reclamation project that not only saw coaching turnover, but also significant player turnover, for better or worse.

After Mussman was let go, we lost arguably 2 of the 10 best wide receivers in all of FCS in Kenny Golladay and Jameer Jackson.  Given how horrid our receivers are, still having those two would make a world of difference.

The secondary has been atrocious for 5 years.  Then you have two starting safeties get injured and an opening day SR starting CB quits when he gets pushed by an underclassmen.  Depth, depth, depth.

I thought Dustin Iverson figured to be a big part of the offense as a blocker, receiver, and team leader.  He's gone due to stupidity.

This summer I think I said best case scenario is that UND goes 7-4 this year.  That was assuming there were no injuries to any key players.  That is still attainable I suppose, but I think is looking unlikely right now.  So I guess I am saying that if my personal opinion was that 7-4 would be the high-water mark this year, I'm not going to get too bent out of shape being 4-4 at this point in the season.  They could still win out and be 7-4.  They could also lose the rest and be 4-7.  Either way, I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the season or on this coaching staff.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  If we had started 1-4 (which was very possible) and were now sitting at 4-4, the tone of this board would be far different.

He probably would not have gotten an interview if not for his history here.  DeBoer was the other finalist, and he probably wouldn't have been interviewed either if not for his win against UND while at USF.

Also probably shouldn't over look the fact that in the four years Bubba was head coach at UMD, they were in the NCC.  The preceding 4 years they were in the NSIC and the succeeding four years they were in the NSIC.  He was coach of the year in the NCC in 2005.  Every single player that was a member of UMD's 2008 National Championship team was recruited by Bubba.  16 of his 21 losses while at UMD were to NCC schools, and one more was to an FCS school.  He was leading them against a whole different level of competition.

And now we have very good counterpoints!

[AFMSGT]

That being said--when is the right time to be there ?

I would say about 2.5 hours before kickoff.

[Sioux>Bison]

I didn't realize we got our OC Ruldolph from minot state ...... No wonder why our passing plays are poor. I don't think I have ever seen a winning team out of minot

[geaux_sioux]

I didn't realize we got our OC Ruldolph from minot state ...... No wonder why our passing plays are poor. I don't think I have ever seen a winning team out of minot

He was previously from SCSU when they were legitimately good and hard to stop on offense..... because of him.

[fightingsioux4life]

I don't agree wholly with RD17 but I found his thoughts interesting and he put out some things I didn't know about Bubba. Full disclosure, I was one who wanted to rid the hockey team of Hak. Not saying get rid of Bubba, but the points made are significant.

I like to be a loyal fan, but honestly I can't take the cool-aid some times and I think RD17 was a refreshing twist to that.

 

Saying that a relatively new coaching staff which took over an absolute train wreck of a program less than two years ago needs more patience is now equivalent to drinking Kool-Aid? And people think I exaggerate on this forum.

If we are still struggling with the same issues in 2017, then I will be concerned. But it's way, way too early to form any judgments about the long-term prospects of this coaching staff.

[UND-FB-FAN]

He was previously from SCSU when they were legitimately good and hard to stop on offense..... because of him.

Quite the experience, huh? St. Cloud State and Minot State? That's a lack of DI experience. Rudolph is a problem in my opinion. If UND finds a way to consistently win with Rudolph calling plays and coaching the QBs, it will certainly be in spite of him. Need to recruit some really good offensive players in order to overcome the coaching ineptitude on offense. 

[iramurphy]

I certainly supported hiring Bubba.  I disagree that there was no talent with the kids who were here.  They maybe don't all fit the philosophy of the new staff though.  Gene Murphy turned a woeful program around in two years and beat the Bison both years.  Then he went to Cal State Fullerton and turned a perennial loser into a top 20 team with bowl appearances.  Why would any of you want to wait 4-5 years? I don't think it will take that long.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2015 by iramurphy
Missed word

[Irish]

He was previously from SCSU when they were legitimately good and hard to stop on offense..... because of him.

Then you would think he would have learned some ideas to use when the defense plays 8 in the box.  He is the weak link as far as I am concerned.

[North Dakota]

I had reservations on hiring Bubba. I felt like UND needed a fresh start with a completely new to UND staff. Someone who could come in and clean house so to speak and finally put UND on the path to a legitimate D1 program. I think Bubba is a very good DC but not sure he is HCing material. Time will tell and I'm certainly willing to wait another year or 2. He seems to be getting some things fixed and maybe with another recruiting class or 2 can get this team to the upper end of the BSC. I would say if there isn't significant progress by the end of next season then Bubba's seat will be getting warm.

As far as adjusting expectations, I was excited before the season (always am) and got more excited after the 4-1 start then reality hit, along with injuries and the realization that this team doesn't have near enough depth or experience to be a PO caliber team. I'm afraid this season is as good as over and we will be lucky to win another game. Hope I'm wrong!

[geaux_sioux]

Then you would think he would have learned some ideas to use when the defense plays 8 in the box.  He is the weak link as far as I am concerned.

Like have the qb pass? Bartels and Studsrud have been less than proficient. He can't make the throws for them.

[Irish]

Like have the qb pass? Bartels and Studsrud have been less than proficient. He can't make the throws for them.

Yes, like having the qb throw some slants or quick outs - and by the way, he has your guy on the bench whom he could put in (and should put in if we have no one to make those throws.  He calls a weak high school game.  

[Longtime fan]

Quite the experience, huh? St. Cloud State and Minot State? That's a lack of DI experience. Rudolph is a problem in my opinion. If UND finds a way to consistently win with Rudolph calling plays and coaching the QBs, it will certainly be in spite of him. Need to recruit some really good offensive players in order to overcome the coaching ineptitude on offense. 

   Exactly.   20 games in a row of his ineptness and lack of adjusting should be more then enough to signal an issue.  Rudolph simply can't adjust to the game.   35 offensive tds in 20 games, not quite 2 tds per game.  Rudolphs offense has averaged less then 14 pts a game and a good fg kicker that will add 3 pts when he runs out of plays.  Try page 2 of the playbook!  We'll see how many 3 and outs happen against  mont st, as they have shown very little resistance to any d1 team they have played.  2 offensive tds and a couple fgs????

[UND-FB-FAN]

Like have the qb pass? Bartels and Studsrud have been less than proficient. He can't make the throws for them.

Then put someone in that can. Rudolph has been a part of "one and a half" offseasons; bring in a QB who can get the job done if you don't think the others can. He is the QB coach for crying out loud! He should assess these kids and get/choose one to perform. It's his job! Call plays that support their strengths, such as quick passes to TEs and FBs and screens to the quick WRs and RBs in space. The lack of adjustments out of the offensive playbook thus far is discouraging. I hope to see a better performance via BOTH better play-calling and better execution this weekend against Montana State. I agree the players need to execute better, but as the offensive coordinator, it is Rudolph's job to recruit capable players during the recruiting process and then develop them. 

 

[RD17]

 RD17, I don't seem to ever remember you being this hostile about UND Football.  What changed?  Two weeks ago UND was in the Top 25.  Now they lose a couple and fall to 4-4 and you come in and go ape sh-t on the staff.  

Seems strange to me.  

I am not hostile at all toward UND football, just very pragmatic. I rarely post here anymore so you wouldn’t know my recent views on the program. As the years have gone by I also have more experience in assessing programs in college football and I feel I know what I’m talking about. I would not be afraid to say what I’m saying to anyone. Sit me across the table from Bubba and Faison and I would happily tell them the exact same things I am writing here.

I think people need to adjust expectations for the entire program, not just this season. I think many people here really believe UND can be a national championship caliber program because it happened in D2 and because NDSU is doing it. I don’t think that will ever happen. There are too many forces working against it, the main one being that this is a hockey school. It was possible to be successful at a national level in D2 football but that’s because UND had such an advantage as an institution over the schools it was playing. At this level that institutional advantage is gone and it’s all about which schools are going to put the most resources and support behind the program.

Why do Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke etc. do so great in basketball but struggle to be relevant in football? Why do Alabama, LSU, Florida State, USC etc. do well in football but struggle in basketball? It’s all about tradition and the demands of the alumni and supporters. A subtle yet powerful force. Some UND supporters care about hockey to the extent that many would still throw the other sports under the bus to retain their precious logo. That is scary. When some other schools regionally and in the Big Sky are all in on football and UND is 60% invested because most of its supporters would rather focus on hockey, which schools are going to win out the majority of the time?

So yes, I do question Bubba but beyond him I also question the future of football at UND. If Bubba can’t turn this thing around in the next 2-3 years then it starts to look more likely that UND turns into the hockey version of KU (great at one men’s sport, stink at everything else) at the D-I level. Sadly, I think many wouldn’t really care if this happened.

This is my over/under on the performance of the UND football program over the next 10 years:

Wins: 53

Conference titles: 1

Playoff appearances: 2

Playoff wins: 1

[RD17]

As far as adjusting expectations go,  I admit that I got very optimistic (overly so) about the season after the fast start.  I was peeking at polls, and playoff possibilites after the PSU game.  Now, here we are at 4-4.  Which, in the long run, is about where I thought we'd be right now when I looked at schedules and evaluated depth charts coming out of spring ball.

If you want to call it an excuse, go ahead.  But the injuries this team has sustained the last several weeks are the biggest reason IMO for the lack luster results the past 3 weeks.  Yeah, yeah, every team has injuries.  But UND isn't in a place YET where they can overcome them.  In 3 years hopefully they will be because that is what good programs do.  But we are a little more than a season and a half into a huge reclamation project that not only saw coaching turnover, but also significant player turnover, for better or worse.

After Mussman was let go, we lost arguably 2 of the 10 best wide receivers in all of FCS in Kenny Golladay and Jameer Jackson.  Given how horrid our receivers are, still having those two would make a world of difference.

The secondary has been atrocious for 5 years.  Then you have two starting safeties get injured and an opening day SR starting CB quits when he gets pushed by an underclassmen.  Depth, depth, depth.

I thought Dustin Iverson figured to be a big part of the offense as a blocker, receiver, and team leader.  He's gone due to stupidity.

This summer I think I said best case scenario is that UND goes 7-4 this year.  That was assuming there were no injuries to any key players.  That is still attainable I suppose, but I think is looking unlikely right now.  So I guess I am saying that if my personal opinion was that 7-4 would be the high-water mark this year, I'm not going to get too bent out of shape being 4-4 at this point in the season.  They could still win out and be 7-4.  They could also lose the rest and be 4-7.  Either way, I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the season or on this coaching staff.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  If we had started 1-4 (which was very possible) and were now sitting at 4-4, the tone of this board would be far different.

He probably would not have gotten an interview if not for his history here.  DeBoer was the other finalist, and he probably wouldn't have been interviewed either if not for his win against UND while at USF.

Also probably shouldn't over look the fact that in the four years Bubba was head coach at UMD, they were in the NCC.  The preceding 4 years they were in the NSIC and the succeeding four years they were in the NSIC.  He was coach of the year in the NCC in 2005.  Every single player that was a member of UMD's 2008 National Championship team was recruited by Bubba.  16 of his 21 losses while at UMD were to NCC schools, and one more was to an FCS school.  He was leading them against a whole different level of competition.

In the four seasons before Bubba got to UMD they were 7-1 against NCC schools. The conference change did have something to do with it, but not to the extent you are portraying. And you made my point for me: it took someone else to win with Bubba’s players. Again, Bubba won four games in 2007 and in 2008 with Nielson they won 15 and a national championship. They beat Grand Valley on the road in the playoffs (something UND never came close to doing) and trailed on the scoreboard for a minute and a half the entire season. A coaching change brought them from not even .500 to one of the best teams in D2 history.

Trying to rebuild a football program is like playing a game of whack a mole: Fix one thing and another problem pops up. So yes, I get what you are saying about injuries eroding depth, but a lack of depth is exactly the problem with bad football teams. This is why it’s so hard to do. It takes some luck (UND has none, see the injury problems the past few years) and the right coaching staff in place to find all the right players and turn things around.

Some of UND’s current issues are on the administration for taking forever to find a coach which led to several players leaving the program in the interim. However, injuries or not there is no excuse for a D-I team having a secondary this bad. If they attempted to bring in guys to shore up the problem they brought in the wrong players.

I’m curious to see what happens next year. Certainly the secondary can’t get much worse but losing Ratelle is going to be a major blow. He is probably responsible for two wins this year on his own by stopping the interior running game.  Without him it will be easier for opponents to run the ball which will offset any secondary improvement. The great programs have another guy waiting in the wings to take his spot and I’m not so sure UND does. The game of whack a mole continues.

[RD17]

Everyone ripped UND for never winning an FBS game.  Now they do win one, dominate in doing it, and it doesn't count.  WTF do people want?  

My points stand and we will have to disagree.  I watch 90% of UND's games and feel I have a pretty good handle on things.

Personally I have never ripped UND for not winning an FBS game. Nor have I given much credit for beating a bad Wyoming team. Like I said before I don't get caught up too much in what division teams are from. Good football is good football. 

And that's fine if we disagree. I'm not posting here to change anyone's mind; just expressing my opinions whether they are popular or not.

 

[fightingsioux4life]

I am not hostile at all toward UND football, just very pragmatic. I rarely post here anymore so you wouldn’t know my recent views on the program. As the years have gone by I also have more experience in assessing programs in college football and I feel I know what I’m talking about. I would not be afraid to say what I’m saying to anyone. Sit me across the table from Bubba and Faison and I would happily tell them the exact same things I am writing here.

I think people need to adjust expectations for the entire program, not just this season. I think many people here really believe UND can be a national championship caliber program because it happened in D2 and because NDSU is doing it. I don’t think that will ever happen. There are too many forces working against it, the main one being that this is a hockey school. It was possible to be successful at a national level in D2 football but that’s because UND had such an advantage as an institution over the schools it was playing. At this level that institutional advantage is gone and it’s all about which schools are going to put the most resources and support behind the program.

Why do Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke etc. do so great in basketball but struggle to be relevant in football? Why do Alabama, LSU, Florida State, USC etc. do well in football but struggle in basketball? It’s all about tradition and the demands of the alumni and supporters. A subtle yet powerful force. Some UND supporters care about hockey to the extent that many would still throw the other sports under the bus to retain their precious logo. That is scary. When some other schools regionally and in the Big Sky are all in on football and UND is 60% invested because most of its supporters would rather focus on hockey, which schools are going to win out the majority of the time?

So yes, I do question Bubba but beyond him I also question the future of football at UND. If Bubba can’t turn this thing around in the next 2-3 years then it starts to look more likely that UND turns into the hockey version of KU (great at one men’s sport, stink at everything else) at the D-I level. Sadly, I think many wouldn’t really care if this happened.

This is my over/under on the performance of the UND football program over the next 10 years:

Wins: 53

Conference titles: 1

Playoff appearances:

Playoff wins: 1

Then we should never have moved up in the first place. You are accepting and embracing mediocrity. I will not do that. And neither will a lot of other people on this forum. I suppose you have the same low standards for Men's and Women's Basketball too?

Being Division I just for the sake of being Division I is a waste of time, energy and resources. I have never liked it when other schools moved up just for the Division I label and I will not stand for UND accepting mediocrity as the norm as long as I am on this planet.

And this idea that athletics is a zero sum game (one revenue sport that wins and everything else has to be garbage) has to stop being promoted as fact. It is a falsehood. You conveniently left out Florida, which has won national titles in both basketball and football in recent years. But that would have ruined your argument, so I understand why you left it out. And UConn has won national titles in both Men's and Women's Basketball in the same year! Based on your hypothesis, the men's team at UConn should always suck.

You can accept perennial mediocrity in FB and whatever else if you wish, I shall not.

End Rant.

In Bubba We Trust.

[Longtime fan]

 

In the four seasons before Bubba got to UMD they were 7-1 against NCC schools. The conference change did have something to do with it, but not to the extent you are portraying. And you made my point for me: it took someone else to win with Bubba’s players. Again, Bubba won four games in 2007 and in 2008 with Nielson they won 15 and a national championship. They beat Grand Valley on the road in the playoffs (something UND never came close to doing) and trailed on the scoreboard for a minute and a half the entire season. A coaching change brought them from not even .500 to one of the best teams in D2 history.

 

Trying to rebuild a football program is like playing a game of whack a mole: Fix one thing and another problem pops up. So yes, I get what you are saying about injuries eroding depth, but a lack of depth is exactly the problem with bad football teams. This is why it’s so hard to do. It takes some luck (UND has none, see the injury problems the past few years) and the right coaching staff in place to find all the right players and turn things around.

 

Some of UND’s current issues are on the administration for taking forever to find a coach which led to several players leaving the program in the interim. However, injuries or not there is no excuse for a D-I team having a secondary this bad. If they attempted to bring in guys to shore up the problem they brought in the wrong players.

 

I’m curious to see what happens next year. Certainly the secondary can’t get much worse but losing Ratelle is going to be a major blow. He is probably responsible for two wins this year on his own by stopping the interior running game.  Without him it will be easier for opponents to run the ball which will offset any secondary improvement. The great programs have another guy waiting in the wings to take his spot and I’m not so sure UND does. The game of whack a mole continues.

 

    The "lack of depth is a bad team" reference is nullified when the coach is in yr 1.5.   To think bubba could make und playoff bound by yr two and with what he had to work with would of been incredible .  I'm not even sure about next yr.    Btw, bubba isn't at Duluth or s illinois anymore.  Mute point.  Just look at what belicheck did before hitting gold with New England.  Nothing!!  He sucked.   So let's just drop what he did or didn't do before his arrival.   The depth is something they're obviously working on, but with only two recruiting classes that's a bit difficult.  This is a message board and you have the right to being completely pessimistic , but I believe majority of us realize the tough circumstances bubba has been thrown.  The secondary issue is very frustrating but not for a lack of talent. One corner is top 5 in fcs in pass breakups, another one is miss st transfer that has played in a bowl game and safety that was well regarded. Numerous times the defenders are covering the wr lack the fundamental to watch the eyes of the receiver. They must counter act a reaction. Db coach needs to step it up.  Will ratelle surely be missed but taj is more then ready to be the undisputed leader of the d next yr.   his injury affected the way the d is playing. Huge loss!!!  He's an X factor and a do it all type of player  Happy to have back next yr .  One last thing....in bubba we trust 

[Irish]

It is absolute nonsense to blame Hockey for the woes of Football - Most fans are fans of both and like myself attend both sports.  The new indoor practice facility is an example of the support for football.  There is only one way that a successful Hockey program affects Football - the demand for a winner from the fans.  For fans of both, it is convenient when Football starts sucking to feel "well, at least we have a good hockey team".  The pressure to perform here is nowhere near what it is in Fargo for football.  Sioux fans have an incredible tolerance for mediocrity and crap as evidenced by Muss's lengthy stay.  How long would he have lasted at Fargo?  In fact, after the Sioux Falls fiasco, I and others who pointed out how bad this was were taken to task by many on this board who felt Muss was just fine.  Even into his last year he had a number of supporters here.  When we as fans start demanding a winner things will come around faster.  Add in a couple of incredibly poor AD's and here we are.  Time for the AD to feel pressure to bring us a winner in Football and Basketball (same thing applies - an incredible patience for crap here too)