The Sicatoka Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I swear some of you think "new name" means renaming the University of North Dakota. It is and will always be the University of North Dakota, and folks will refer to the institution as UND or North Dakota in addition to the formal name (University of North Dakota). However, the Athletics branch of UND (<-- see what I did there) has always run under an additional moniker or alias: UND Flickertails, North Dakota Nodaks, UND "that" word. Calling the Athletics branch of the University of North Dakota North Dakota is asininely redundant at best, in violation of a settlement agreement at worst. As said before here many times by many people, "no nickname" is a thinly veiled ruse to try to keep saying the old name. Quote
engelbunny Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Hey what "nickname" does our country use when we compete in international competitions? Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Hey what "nickname" does our country use when we compete in international competitions? The United States does the same thing as every other country does in international competition, they don't use a nickname. All are known only by their country name. In college and pro sports everyone does use a nickname. North Dakota is not a sports nickname. UND should follow the pattern and find a new nickname rather than going without. 1 Quote
Old Time Hockey Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I like how the name lover's act like President Kelly or UND or Faison are going to start "telling the media they cannot ask about the Sioux name" - or "make you stop wearing your Sioux gear!". They have not done it yet and never will but you guys keep threatening that they are going to, with no proof to back it up. Bunch of tough guys on here for no reason. Stop fear mongering. Where did I state they will stop letting people wear their Sioux gear? Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I swear some of you think "new name" means renaming the University of North Dakota. It is and will always be the University of North Dakota, and folks will refer to the institution as UND or North Dakota in addition to the formal name (University of North Dakota). However, the Athletics branch of UND (<-- see what I did there) has always run under an additional moniker or alias: UND Flickertails, North Dakota Nodaks, UND "that" word. Calling the Athletics branch of the University of North Dakota North Dakota is asininely redundant at best, in violation of a settlement agreement at worst. As said before here many times by many people, "no nickname" is a thinly veiled ruse to try to keep saying the old name. Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? I can hear the announcer now, "Here come your University of North Dakota Nooorrrth Daaakoooooottttaaaaa!" Works great for cheers, too. "Here we go, North Dakota, here we go! {clap} {clap}" I'm sure that the cheerleaders can make that sound great. Quote
Fetch Posted January 31, 2015 Author Posted January 31, 2015 We have made it work for a couple yrs now & YES we will always be Sioux so get over it - no new name will ever change that Quote
jdub27 Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 We have made it work for a couple yrs now & YES we will always be Sioux so get over it - no new name will ever change thatIs this what the Flickertail faithful thought as well? The only thing that has always been consistent and never changed is The University of North Dakota, not a nickname or logo. Quote
Chewey Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 The MIAC has it solve with Johnnies Tommies Oles Gusties Auggies etc. Go by the Nodaks or Daks if North Dakota is too offensive. Why does anyone need to say "Here come your North Dakota (insert something -anything - other that Fighting Sioux)? Just so that it doesn't sound stupid ("Here come your North Dakota North Dakota)? How about "Here comes North Dakota" "Here we come - North Dakota " "Here’s your North Dakota scoring". Pretty simple to rearrange how one would say "the call". Having a stupid nickname just so that some thing's there and just so that one can say "Here come your North Dakota (whatever) is a poor basis to rush to a nickname and saying the inane and insipid replacement nickname would sound more stupid than just North Dakota. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 We have made it work for a couple yrs now & YES we will always be Sioux so get over it - no new name will ever change that That's a real high bar to strive for. "We've made it work so far, so we can make it work in the future." Everyone complains when they think the athletes aren't striving for excellence but some people are willing to settle for "making it work" for a nickname. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 The MIAC has it solve with Johnnies Tommies Oles Gusties Auggies etc. Go by the Nodaks or Daks if North Dakota is too offensive. Why does anyone need to say "Here come your North Dakota (insert something -anything - other that Fighting Sioux)? Just so that it doesn't sound stupid ("Here come your North Dakota North Dakota)? How about "Here comes North Dakota" "Here we come - North Dakota " "Here’s your North Dakota scoring". Pretty simple to rearrange how one would say "the call". Having a stupid nickname just so that some thing's there and just so that one can say "Here come your North Dakota (whatever) is a poor basis to rush to a nickname and saying the inane and insipid replacement nickname would sound more stupid than just North Dakota. The basic format is the name of the school, and then the nickname. If you want to claim that UND is using North Dakota as a nickname, that becomes the University of North Dakota North Dakota. Otherwise UND isn't using a nickname, which means it hasn't fulfilled the settlement agreement. Pretty simple really. Not sure how some people think that UND is rushing to find a nickname when it has been 2+ years without a nickname already. And it will be 6 months to 2 years before they use a new nickname even if they start now. That isn't rushing anything. That's just wasting time. Quote
Fetch Posted January 31, 2015 Author Posted January 31, 2015 We dont need a "nickname" we are the Sioux we will always be the Sioux Quote
UND1983 Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 We dont need a "nickname" we are the Sioux we will always be the Sioux Speak for yourself. I will go by what the kids on the court, field and ice go by. Quote
Chewey Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 The basic format is the name of the school, and then the nickname. If you want to claim that UND is using North Dakota as a nickname, that becomes the University of North Dakota North Dakota. Otherwise UND isn't using a nickname, which means it hasn't fulfilled the settlement agreement. Pretty simple really. Not sure how some people think that UND is rushing to find a nickname when it has been 2+ years without a nickname already. And it will be 6 months to 2 years before they use a new nickname even if they start now. That isn't rushing anything. That's just wasting time. Um. Nope. Paragraph 2.d. Absence of Namesake Approval -- .....UND...will transition to a new nickname and logo which do not violate the Policy or render UND subject to the Policy. In the event UND announces a transition to a new nickname and logo which do not violate the Policy , the transition will be completed on or before August 15, 2011......If UND does not adopt a new nickname and logo, or if the transition to a new nickname and logo is not completed prior to August 15, 2011, then UND will be returned to the list of institutions subject to the Policy. Is there anything anywhere in the NCAA by-laws, etc. requiring that a school have a nickname and logo? No. Is there anything anywhere saying that not having a nickname or logo violates anything, including the Policy? No. The whole thing is about satisfying the policy or not offending the policy. What's the effing policy again? Anyone? Anyone? Yes. Policy = Don't have "hostile and abusive" NA nicknames and imagery. That's it. UND is no longer known as "the Fighting Sioux". There it is - policy complied with. Has either the NCAA Constitution or the NCAA by-laws been amended requiring schools to have nicknames? Has the NCAA Executive Committee come up with any such requirement? Now, the opponents of the "keep North Dakota" option can engage in linguistic and syntax divination or eisegete that paragraph with anything that's self-serving to their position. The meaning is quite clear and one certainly does not need to resort to diagramming sentences to see it. The parties are limited to the four corners of the document and the surrender agreement indicates that quite clearly. Paragraph 6, page 9, "UND and the NCAA agree that this Agreement constitutes all the agreements between them, and they have no other written or oral agreements or understandings." Parol evidence rule notwithstanding, the NCAA would have no basis, as per the agreement itself, to indicate that "we really meant this". In paragraph 3 of page 9, UND can challenge any changes to the Policy. The NCAA would have to come up with a new policy in order to have a new category of offense regarding not having a nickname. The second to last introductory paragraph on page 2 indicates that the parties "desire to settle and extinguish all claims, rights of action, causes of action, and demands between themselves that they have or could have". Not having a nickname or logo does not violate either the Policy or the surrender agreement. End of story, scare tactics notwithstanding. Is not having a nickname mentioned in "the Policy"? No. Therefore, no litigation will come out of the surrender agreement because it deals only with the Policy. Not having a nickname does not violate the policy explicitly or even inferentially because there is absolutely no verbiage or language anywhere dealing with that topic. Quote
Chewey Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Is this what the Flickertail faithful thought as well? The only thing that has always been consistent and never changed is The University of North Dakota, not a nickname or logo. Exactly. So, just retain the part that's never changed. Thanks for your support and welcome to the "Keep It Just North Dakota" fold. #sarcasm Quote
Chewey Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 The basic format is the name of the school, and then the nickname. Is there any policy or document that requires this basic format? No. The university and its teams can legitimately be known and identified as "the University of North Dakota" or just "North Dakota". If UND does not have a nickname, neither the policy nor the surrender agreement applies. The parties can't even amend the surrender agreement to address it because it's an entirely different area. For there to be any offense, the NCAA would have to concoct a new policy to require all schools to have nicknames. Quote
Shawn-O Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 No nickname, is not a new nickname. 900 paragraphs of spin doesn't change that. Quote
Chewey Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 That's a real high bar to strive for. "We've made it work so far, so we can make it work in the future." Everyone complains when they think the athletes aren't striving for excellence but some people are willing to settle for "making it work" for a nickname. The "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo were excellent. Not having a nickname is likewise excellent, though not as excellent has having the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo, because 1.) No hyper-sensitive passions vis-a-vis NA imagery are piqued and respect is shown because NA imagery is no longer used; 2.) the wishes of the sheer majority of NA's who supported the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo are respected and due deference for the rich Sioux history and imagery is shown because no new and inane nickname is selected; 3.) Neither the policy nor the surrender agreement is implicated at all. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Um. Nope. Paragraph 2.d. Absence of Namesake Approval -- .....UND...will transition to a new nickname and logo which do not violate the Policy or render UND subject to the Policy. In the event UND announces a transition to a new nickname and logo which do not violate the Policy , the transition will be completed on or before August 15, 2011......If UND does not adopt a new nickname and logo, or if the transition to a new nickname and logo is not completed prior to August 15, 2011, then UND will be returned to the list of institutions subject to the Policy. Is there anything anywhere in the NCAA by-laws, etc. requiring that a school have a nickname and logo? No. Is there anything anywhere saying that not having a nickname or logo violates anything, including the Policy? No. The whole thing is about satisfying the policy or not offending the policy. What's the effing policy again? Anyone? Anyone? Yes. Policy = Don't have "hostile and abusive" NA nicknames and imagery. That's it. UND is no longer known as "the Fighting Sioux". There it is - policy complied with. Has either the NCAA Constitution or the NCAA by-laws been amended requiring schools to have nicknames? Has the NCAA Executive Committee come up with any such requirement? Now, the opponents of the "keep North Dakota" option can engage in linguistic and syntax divination or eisegete that paragraph with anything that's self-serving to their position. The meaning is quite clear and one certainly does not need to resort to diagramming sentences to see it. The parties are limited to the four corners of the document and the surrender agreement indicates that quite clearly. Paragraph 6, page 9, "UND and the NCAA agree that this Agreement constitutes all the agreements between them, and they have no other written or oral agreements or understandings." Parol evidence rule notwithstanding, the NCAA would have no basis, as per the agreement itself, to indicate that "we really meant this". In paragraph 3 of page 9, UND can challenge any changes to the Policy. The NCAA would have to come up with a new policy in order to have a new category of offense regarding not having a nickname. The second to last introductory paragraph on page 2 indicates that the parties "desire to settle and extinguish all claims, rights of action, causes of action, and demands between themselves that they have or could have". Not having a nickname or logo does not violate either the Policy or the surrender agreement. End of story, scare tactics notwithstanding. Is not having a nickname mentioned in "the Policy"? No. Therefore, no litigation will come out of the surrender agreement because it deals only with the Policy. Not having a nickname does not violate the policy explicitly or even inferentially because there is absolutely no verbiage or language anywhere dealing with that topic. The agreement signed by officials from North Dakota states that the school would transition to a new nickname. No nickname = doesn't live up to agreement. That seems like a pretty simple equation. And North Dakota is not a sports nickname. It is the name of the state and shorthand for the name of the school, just like North Carolina is short hand for the University of North Carolina and Texas is short hand for the University of Texas along with many others. Quote
Chewey Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 No nickname, is not a new nickname. 900 paragraphs of spin doesn't change that. No nickname is not a new nickname that violates the Policy or would render UND subject to the Policy. Exactly. There's no spin in reciting what the document itself says. Kelley and the rest of the "let's get a new nickname yesterday" crowd are employing both spin and eisegesis by indicating that not having a nickname violates the surrender agreement. Not having a nickname has absolutely nothing to do with either the Policy or the surrender agreement. Quote
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