UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

[dmksioux]

Well, I must admit, that is some theory you got going there SiouxVolley. No idea if it has any chance of gaining any traction. If there is any possibility of this happening, I would hope UND would plan to return football to campus and renovate Memorial Stadium or build new at that location. There are some UND football alums with big pockets, particularly Dave Fennell (sp?) so if this plan actually gains some traction, there are potential resources to draw from.

[UNDColorado]

Well, I must admit, that is some theory you got going there SiouxVolley. No idea if it has any chance of gaining any traction. If there is any possibility of this happening, I would hope UND would plan to return football to campus and renovate Memorial Stadium or build new at that location. There are some UND football alums with big pockets, particularly Dave Fennell (sp?) so if this plan actually gains some traction, there are potential resources to draw from.

If this did actually gain traction I believe that some of these big donors would open up their checkbooks. However, this is all speculation at this point.

Also, some think that Volley is crazy but I looked into this scenario a little deeper and legally it seems possible. (Im not a lawyer though)

[mksioux]

The NCAA will allow it because the rules allow it. It is an end-around and it is legal. If the NCAA doesn't want it to happen, they should legislate prior to the move. Ruling after it is done would have legal issues. Some times the little guy has to perform an end around to have a shotl

No chance Idaho ever gets in the MWC. Montana would be picked before Idaho. UC Davis would have the inside track if it stayed west. The MWC has shown it like Texas schools: Rice, UTSA, UTEP, UNT could all get shots.

Eight of the 14 Big Sky schools have to be FBS before the conference can be FBS. The others could be FCS. Nothing prevents a conference from sponsoring both.

Seattle and Denver wanted to get in but the BSC wanted them to start football. From a market and TV standpoint, either Seattle or Denver would be much greater than Idaho without football. Denver has better academics than Idaho, but Denver couldn't get a look. The BSC is a football conference, but they took in Idaho without its most valuable team. That isn't logical. Why not wait til Idaho was forced to FCS? The only answer is that the Big Sky sees Idaho as an opening to FBS. Cal Poly, UCDavis, Portland St, and Sac St have to convert to FBS to have any shot at their football programs being relevant to their areas. FCS is a losers game for them and they know it and they plan on changing the game.

Interesting theory. I have no idea if it has credibility, but from a speculation/conversation standpoint, it's good stuff.

But going along with your theory for the sake of conversation, don't you think it's an extremely high hurdle to get 8 or 9 Big Sky schools FBS ready by 2016, including stadium expansion for 4 of them? That just seems highly unlikely. California is damn near broke, so you can bet the California schools will get zero public support for such a move. If I recall correctly, didn't Davis just renovate their stadium a couple years ago? Is there really the appetite and capability to do another one there? I have no idea what EWU's situation is. As for UND, even if expansion at the Alerus is possible, it is a public entity and would take a long time to get the green light and secure the funds to make such a major improvement. Heck, it took them a few years just to get the new field turf secured. There's no way Alerus expansion construction is started by 2016. The only way I can see UND having a shot at stadium expansion by 2016 is by a Ralph Engelstad-like contribution to renovate Memorial Stadium. UND has long term plans for such a thing, but unless they pull a rabbit out of a hat, it isn't happening by 2016.

Bottom line is that even running with your theory, the chance of everything falling into place at 8 or 9 schools is extremely slim. It seems like wishful thinking more than anything.

[SiouxVolley]

Interesting theory. I have no idea if it has credibility, but from a speculation/conversation standpoint, it's good stuff.

But going along with your theory for the sake of conversation, don't you think it's an extremely high hurdle to get 8 or 9 Big Sky schools FBS ready by 2016, including stadium expansion for 4 of them? That just seems highly unlikely. California is damn near broke, so you can bet the California schools will get zero public support for such a move. If I recall correctly, didn't Davis just renovate their stadium a couple years ago? Is there really the appetite and capability to do another one there? I have no idea what EWU's situation is. As for UND, even if expansion at the Alerus is possible, it is a public entity and would take a long time to get the green light and secure the funds to make such a major improvement. Heck, it took them a few years just to get the new field turf secured. There's no way Alerus expansion construction is started by 2016. The only way I can see UND having a shot at stadium expansion by 2016 is by a Ralph Engelstad-like contribution to renovate Memorial Stadium. UND has long term plans for such a thing, but unless they pull a rabbit out of a hat, it isn't happening by 2016.

Bottom line is that even running with your theory, the chance of everything falling into place at 8 or 9 schools is extremely slim. It seems like wishful thinking more than anything.

Sacramento St already has a FBS compatible stadium. They are working on a basketball arena.

Ditto for Portland St.

UCDavis has a 10,000 seat new stadium that is designed to seat at least 30,000. If they add 6000, they are good to go. UCDavis has an $800mill endownment and is one of the highest rated public U's.

Cal Poly has an 11,000 seat stadium. Expansion is more difficult because a railroad track runs along one side, so stands have to be elevated. Expansion to 22,000 seats is planned.

E Wash has a planned expansion to 18,000. Roos Field would be decked on one site and lounge and loge seating added. https://sites.ewu.ed...ateway-project/

Those are the five schools besides UND and the Montanas that would needed, although four would be a possible go.

Technically, Weber St and Northern Arizona have FBS stadiums, as they are over 15,000 capacity. But would have real issues if they could support FBS, even for their Foundations paid for 1/3rd price tickets.

Seems like Idaho State is a basket case financially, and UNC isn't much better. SUU is just too young.

[SiouxVolley]

If this did actually gain traction I believe that some of these big donors would open up their checkbooks. However, this is all speculation at this point.

Also, some think that Volley is crazy but I looked into this scenario a little deeper and legally it seems possible. (Im not a lawyer though)

Idaho did a huge favor for us by blocking a MVC - WAC merger, although it was obviously in Idaho's self interest. NDSU would have been on the FBS track and we would be perenially frozen out of FBS by Taylor and Bresciani. By not playing us, Taylor and Bresciani had no politcal compulsion to invite us. Now the shoe will be on the other foot. Idaho will move to the Big Sky only when the WAC can no longer invite teams for FBS, so their continued presence in the WAC until June 30th is essential. (The WAC loses FBS status on June 30th). Their sole requirement is that UND, Montana, and MSU be in the Sky when they return. The four schools are joined at the hip and want to be FBS together.

[darell1976]

Sacramento St already has a FBS compatible stadium. They are working on a basketball arena.

Now they can give the Nest back to the local high school.

[darell1976]

Idaho did a huge favor for us by blocking a MVC - WAC merger. NDSU would have been on the FBS track and we would be perenially frozen out of FBS by Taylor and Bresciani. By not playing us, Taylor and no politcal compulsion to play us. Now the shoe will be on the other foot. Idaho will move to the Big Sky only when the WAC can no longer invite teams for FBS, so their continued presence in the WAC until June 30th is essential. (The WAC loses FBS status on June 30th). Their sole requirement is that UND, Montana, and MSU be in the Sky when they return. The four schools are joined at the hip and want to be FBS together.

If UND moves up before NDSU there would be such a !@#$ storm out the DL area from Lakes, plus a total Bisonville meltdown.

[SiouxVolley]

I should add that the California schools feel that football is FBS or bust. Urban areas just don't take to FCS. Only small towns do like Fargo and Boone and Statesboro and the like. Even Boone and Statesboro are moving up.

If the California schools can't afford move to FBS, they are better suited to dropping football and replacing it with lacrosse. The stadiums are good for soccer and lacrosse, as well as football.

[SiouxVolley]

If UND moves up before NDSU there would be such a !@#$ storm out the DL area from Lakes, plus a total Bisonville meltdown.

A nuclear reaction induced meltdown from the rage of bisonville. Fargo won't be liveable for years, especially the north side. Better plan on moving in two years.

[darell1976]

A nuclear reaction induced meltdown from the rage of bisonville. Fargo won't be liveable for years.

People in Monticello would think its their power plant.

[mksioux]

Sacramento St already has a FBS compatible stadium. They are working on a basketball arena.

Ditto for Portland St.

UCDavis has a 10,000 seat new stadium that is designed to seat at least 30,000. If they add 6000, they are good to go. UCDavis has an $800mill endownment and is one of the highest rated public U's.

Cal Poly has an 11,000 seat stadium. Expansion is more difficult because a railroad track runs along one side, so stands have to be elevated. Expansion to 22,000 seats is planned.

E Wash has a planned expansion to 18,000. Roos Field would be decked on one site and lounge and loge seating added. https://sites.ewu.ed...ateway-project/

Those are the five schools besides UND and the Montanas that would needed, although four would be a possible go.

Technically, Weber St and Northern Arizona have FBS stadiums, as they are over 15,000 capacity. But would have real issues if they could support FBS, even for their Foundations paid for 1/3rd price tickets.

It's one thing to say certain schools have plans for stadium expansion. Even UND has long-term plans for stadium expansion. But are those plans imminent? That is the relevant question under your timeline.

I'm late to this game, but I can't find anything that says that Idaho's football membership with the Sun Belt is temporary. I found an article where Idaho's AD said that the ideal situation would be if some of the Big Sky schools moved up to FBS, but that's the closest thing I can find to support your theory. Where are you getting your information that Idaho is contracted with the Sun Belt only though the 2015-16 season, with a two year option?

[SiouxVolley]

It's one thing to say certain schools have plans for stadium expansion. Even UND has long-term plans for stadium expansion. But are those plans imminent? That is the relevant question under your timeline.

I'm late to this game, but I can't find anything that says that Idaho's football membership with the Sun Belt is temporary. I found an article where Idaho's AD said that the ideal situation would be if some of the Big Sky schools moved up to FBS, but that's the closest thing I can find to support your theory. Where are you getting your information that Idaho is contracted with the Sun Belt only though the 2015-16 season, with a two year option?

A Freedom of Information request to Idaho. Idaho has an exit agreement that specifically states that the 2017-18 season is the last, if the two year option is exercised. Curiously, Idaho has 4 FBS game in 2018 and 2 scheduled in 2019, Two years is needed as that is it takes to transition to FBS. The Sun Belt gets paid 100Gs a year for each year Idaho is in. Presumably, each Big Sky team would pay the Sun Belt, so they get nearly $2 mill for granting us FBS privileges, but mainly they dont have another competitor league poaching their teams (like the WAC was threatening to invite the CAA or the MVC). The Big Sky is no threat to the Sun Belt, but a potential ally.

UCDavis is certain to have 16,000 seats. Cal Poly would be questionable, but then Weber or NAU could be substituted.

Idaho pulled out all stops for this in the WAC. The Big Sky could not move to FBS right away like the WAC tried to make them do. The 2017 season is critical, not 2016. FIU and FAU didn't even had FBS stadiums until their last year of transition.

When Phase II of the IPF is announced, I wonder if a remodeled Memorial could be announced with 18k seats. Late season games in the Alerus. That could get us to 15K average.

[darell1976]

Actually... The logical thing to do would be looking at average number of fans... None of und's sports they share with ndsu are close to averaging 100% capacity anyway... So your building argument doesn't hold water

Football:

NDSU 18,622 +10,265 98% capacity

UND 8357 62% capacity

Men's basketball: (as of 2/26)

NDSU 3152 +1480 53% Capacity

UND 1872 57% Capacity

Women's basketball (as of 2/26

UND 1554 + 833 47% Capacity

NDSU 721 12% Capacity

Volleyball

UND 1130 +380 34% Capacity

NDSU 750 33 % Capacity

[mksioux]

A Freedom of Information request to Idaho. Idaho has an exit agreement that specifically states that the 2017-18 season is the last, if the two year option is exercised. Curiously, Idaho has 4 FBS game in 2018 and 2 scheduled in 2019, Two years is needed as that is it takes to transition to FBS. The Sun Belt gets paid 100Gs a year for each year Idaho is in. Presumably, each Big Sky team would pay the Sun Belt, so they get nearly $2 mill for granting us FBS privileges, but mainly they dont have another competitor league poaching their teams (like the WAC was threatening to invite the CAA or the MVC). The Big Sky is no threat to the Sun Belt, but a potential ally.

UCDavis is certain to have 16,000 seats. Cal Poly would be questionable, but then Weber or NAU could be substituted.

Idaho pulled out all stops for this in the WAC. The Big Sky could move to FBS right away. The 2017 season is critical, not 2016. FIU and FAU didn't even had FBS stadiums until their last year of transition.

Call me skeptical that if Idaho's membership in the Sun Belt was really a temporary thing that none of the Idaho newspapers would have gotten a hold of this agreement and reported on it. Are you sure this exit agreement mandates Idaho to leave, or is just an agreement that sets forth what happens IF Idaho leaves?

And what is your evidence that the Sun Belt is going to invite the Big Sky schools into the conference? Is that just a gentlemen's agreement, or is it in writing? The WAC charter is almost dead. So unless it is contractually obligated to invite the Big Sky schools, the Sun Belt isn't going to have any more competition regardless of what it does with the Big Sky.

[FargoBison]

Football:

NDSU 18,622 +10,265 98% capacity

UND 8357 62% capacity

Men's basketball: (as of 2/26)

NDSU 3152 +1480 53% Capacity

UND 1872 57% Capacity

Women's basketball (as of 2/26

UND 1554 + 833 47% Capacity

NDSU 721 12% Capacity

Volleyball

UND 1130 +380 34% Capacity

NDSU 750 33 % Capacity

The BSA's capacity is 5600.

Wow NDSU WBB isn't outdrawing what was a down volleyball team.

[darell1976]

The BSA's capacity is 5600.

Wow NDSU WBB isn't outdrawing what was a down volleyball team.

GoBison.com says 5830, and the wiki page of the SL says 6,000. At 5600 MBB would be 56% capacity, and WBB would be 13%.

[UNDColorado]

Idaho did a huge favor for us by blocking a MVC - WAC merger, although it was obviously in Idaho's self interest. NDSU would have been on the FBS track and we would be perenially frozen out of FBS by Taylor and Bresciani. By not playing us, Taylor and Bresciani had no politcal compulsion to invite us. Now the shoe will be on the other foot. Idaho will move to the Big Sky only when the WAC can no longer invite teams for FBS, so their continued presence in the WAC until June 30th is essential. (The WAC loses FBS status on June 30th). Their sole requirement is that UND, Montana, and MSU be in the Sky when they return. The four schools are joined at the hip and want to be FBS together.

This is definitely intriguing because if Idaho didn't have a FBS plan down the road then there would be no reason to have a clause stating that Montana, MSU, and UND would need to be in the conference.

I have also read about a few FCS schools who moved up saw huge increases in alumni donations. The same would happen for us...we have some Alumni with very deep pockets.

[FargoBison]

GoBison.com says 5830, and the wiki page of the SL says 6,000. At 5600 MBB would be 56% capacity, and WBB would be 13%.

A section of bleachers broke during the season, parts of the BSA are hanging on by a thread. Thankfully just two games left in that dump.

[kingranch]

holy shiit Sioux volley and mplsbison are the same person, just found out about it today, this is awesome!!!!! best troll job in the history of the internets.

[darell1976]

A section of bleachers broke during the season, parts of the BSA are hanging on by a thread. Thankfully just two games left in that dump.

What's the capacity supposed to be in the new BSA?

[FargoBison]

What's the capacity supposed to be in the new BSA?

5,945

[SiouxVolley]

Call me skeptical that if Idaho's membership in the Sun Belt was really a temporary thing that none of the Idaho newspapers would have gotten a hold of this agreement and reported on it. Are you sure this exit agreement mandates Idaho to leave, or is just an agreement that sets forth what happens IF Idaho leaves?

And what is your evidence that the Sun Belt is going to invite the Big Sky schools into the conference? Is that just a gentlemen's agreement, or is it in writing? The WAC charter is almost dead. So unless it is contractually obligated to invite the Big Sky schools, the Sun Belt isn't going to have any more competition regardless of what it does with the Big Sky.

You assume Idaho has a real media. Boise St does, but U Idaho doesn't. The media listens to the AD and believes the AD is giving the facts, but he lsn't necessary being totally truthful. The Big Sky agreement clearly stated Idaho football will be returning in the "near future" "presumably" as an FCS team. Idaho was in the Sun Belt once before for football and that was disastrous for both parties. The Sun Belt needs teams to help schedule Appy St, Ga So, and Ga St transition, but once that is done there is no need or desire for Idaho (or NMSU for that matter). Idaho just needs teams to fill out its schedule and the Sun Belt provides that. Idaho has no real future in FBS unless it has regional opponents to get the juices and wallets flowing of Idaho and Spokane area residents. The Big Sky needs a few years to get its act together.

Personally think that there is a contract between the Sun Belt office and Big Sky office, but that would take a whole lot of wrangling and legal manuevers and cost to obtain. I don't want to "out" the plan for the NCAA to stop it. Bison fans reading this don't believe it anyway, so there's no risk they start a letter writing campaign to stop it.

I looked at the Sun Belt agreement again: 2015-6 is an option year with an extension to 2017-18 if warranted.

[SiouxVolley]

holy shiit Sioux volley and mplsbison are the same person, just found out about it today, this is awesome!!!!! best troll job in the history of the internets.

Ha-ha.

I bet mplsbison that he would quit posting if UND got in the Big Sky. I was so sure of it and he thought it absurd. He hasn't posted since, since he was so sure UND was Summit-bound.

At least Mplsbison was honorable, living up to his word, unlike the multitudes to bison trolls on here. When the Big Sky goes FBS, your out of here, if you have any guts.

[SiouxVolley]

This is definitely intriguing because if Idaho didn't have a FBS plan down the road then there would be no reason to have a clause stating that Montana, MSU, and UND would need to be in the conference.

I have also read about a few FCS schools who moved up saw huge increases in alumni donations. The same would happen for us...we have some Alumni with very deep pockets.

I think Idaho included the clause to ensure that UND, Montana, and Montana St didn't move to an FBS MVC, and double-cross Idaho. Idaho is smarter than it looks! Trust but verify!

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

A core of Idaho, Montana, Montana State, and North Dakota sounds pretty good. I hope it all works out.