MafiaMan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Oh, I agree. Just saying, that tournament (and college hockey in general) have grown by leaps and bounds since then. Same is true with the MNHS Tourney. It didn't start out drawing 130,000+ fans for the weekend. Rome wasn't built in a day. My main point is, if the expectation for this tournament coming in is to be the Beanpot, this tournament is going to be a failure. It has to be given the time to grow and to become a tourney with it's own history and traditions. Anyone who thought this tourney would have instant atmosphere immediately came in with unrealistic expectations IMHO. OK, we can agree on that. Comparing this tournament to the Beanpot or the WCHA Final Five is going to result in sadness. Just create your own identity and run with it. You have to admit, the guys on "Beyond the Pond" last Saturday morning were beyond ridiculous with their over-the-top comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNState0fHockey Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 OK, we can agree on that. Comparing this tournament to the Beanpot or the WCHA Final Five is going to result in sadness. Just create your own identity and run with it. You have to admit, the guys on "Beyond the Pond" last Saturday morning were beyond ridiculous with their over-the-top comments. Agreed. I've seen more than a few people go a little over the top. I mean, I love their enthusiasm, but they are setting the wrong expectations. Don't get me wrong, I think this tournament will become great, and it's great for college hockey in the state, but it's going to take time. There are no shortcuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Agreed. I've seen more than a few people go a little over the top. I mean, I love their enthusiasm, but they are setting the wrong expectations. The one that killed me was the "different vibe" walking into the X on Friday afternoon. Seriously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Regarding comments on the North Star College Cup. Attendance was obviously a concern, but I think most people expected that would be the case coming in. It is going to take some time for this Tourney to get a footing. As Bruce Ciskie wrote in his blog, the initial Beanpot tourney drew less than 10,000 fans. ... In regards to attendance, like I said, it hasn't become an "event" yet. That will take time. Maybe 5+ years time. If they aren't patient with it, there is no way this tourney will be successful. They are trying to learn from feedback and make it a better experience. Lucia said in his radio show that he will be pushing for no shootout, but continuous overtime, in the championship game. That's a positive. I thought the event went well. Still lots of room for growth and improvement, but that's to be expected I heard the tickets were sold as session packages, i.e. one ticket for both games with no exit/re-entry. Do you think this hurt or helped the overall in-person attendance? I'm sure as the event gains popularity they would be wise to ticket each game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 http://www.mankatofr...-North-Star-Cup There won't be an announcement of single game attendance for this reason (taken from the Xcel Energy Center web site: Tournament packages include two tickets, one for each day of the tournament. Each day’s ticket will provide access to both games on that day. The arena will not be cleared between games each day and there will be no ‘in and out’ privileges either day. Single session tickets will allow access to both games in the session. Your estimate of 38,000 fans in attendance is about 10,000 too many. I posted this a couple of days ago, Snake. Yes, 1 ticket for both games. Obviously about 10,000 people with tickets didn't bother to attend the Friday afternoon or Saturday afternoon games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hat Trick Hockey is still open though... Dang they are still open. I thought they closed because their little store on 66th st. was gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Agreed. I've seen more than a few people go a little over the top. I mean, I love their enthusiasm, but they are setting the wrong expectations. Don't get me wrong, I think this tournament will become great, and it's great for college hockey in the state, but it's going to take time. There are no shortcuts. I wonder if the days or dates would make a difference? Like a Saturday/Sunday or at a holiday time. Keeping it on a Friday/Saturday and expecting out of town fans is tough. As for the part of selling individual game tickets do it at least for the first day. That way the first day afternoon game people can leave and go shopping or home. It might actually improve sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNState0fHockey Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The one that killed me was the "different vibe" walking into the X on Friday afternoon. Seriously... Yeah, that's over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNState0fHockey Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I heard the tickets were sold as session packages, i.e. one ticket for both games with no exit/re-entry. Do you think this hurt or helped the overall in-person attendance? I'm sure as the event gains popularity they would be wise to ticket each game. Great point. I agree with you. Individual game tickets are the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNState0fHockey Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I wonder if the days or dates would make a difference? Like a Saturday/Sunday or at a holiday time. Keeping it on a Friday/Saturday and expecting out of town fans is tough. As for the part of selling individual game tickets do it at least for the first day. That way the first day afternoon game people can leave and go shopping or home. It might actually improve sales. Very good suggestions. I agree with all your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Great point. I agree with you. Individual game tickets are the way to go. At least have the first day individual tickets because who know who will play who on the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Very good suggestions. I agree with all your thoughts. Thanks. I was just thinking that UMD, Mankato, Bemidji, St. Cloud, and even UM fans really do not want to pay so much for one game. If I could go to a 1:00 game and then go out for dinner I would come back for a 7:00 game. In all fairness the idea of this tourney really is a good one. If they play with the ticket policy, game times, and dates it will become a great event. If I was a fan of any of the teams I would enjoy it. It never would have worked before being in the same conference. Now that they are in 3 different ones it is good. It was way to much geared towards the Gopher fans this year. If they continue on that road it never is going to take off. They really need to have the Gophers playing in the afternoon on the first day also. Rotate them around. Next year have UMD, Mankato, or Bemidji play at night. Make all the schools fans feel like they are a part of it. This year they probably felt that they were just bodies to fill the brackets and had no real skin in the game. They are right. They were treated like economy class. They would like to sit in the front of the plane also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Dang they are still open. I thought they closed because their little store on 66th st. was gone. It's been located inside Richfield Ice Arena for as long as I can remember... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Great point. I agree with you. Individual game tickets are the way to go. If they go with individual game tickets they will have to empty the building between games. That would make for a longer day for staff and add costs. The added cost might be one reason they did a full day ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDHockey Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 St Cloud is considered part of the metro population, but it's the very edge of it (Stupid, I know). There are also two counties in Wisconsin that are considered part of the Twin Cities metro population. St. Cloud really doesn't add that much. It is a little over 3.4 million people in MSP area without St. Cloud. About 3.75 million with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's been located inside Richfield Ice Arena for as long as I can remember... It use to be across the street in a little building on a corner. When they rebuilt 66th st they tore the building down. It was owned by a guy as a sideline and the only employees was one guy and the owners kid. This was back in 89,90, and 91. The guy that worked there was good buddies with Damien Rhodes and he introduced me to him. I was a big fan of his. Here is a funny story that happened there. The week after Hak schooled Ben Hankinson at center ice the Gophers next game that Hankinson had to sit out was on Saturday afternoon. 20-25 minutes before game time Hankinson comes into the store dressed like a slob. As you all know I say what I think and don't care who I po. I told Hankinson that they would not win the league that year. He asked me why. I told him because here you are dressed like a slob 20 minutes before game time and you are not at the arena. That shows an extreme lack of discipline by Woog. Needless to say they did not win that year. They lost in Houghton and there went the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 If they go with individual game tickets they will have to empty the building between games. That would make for a longer day for staff and add costs. The added cost might be one reason they did a full day ticket. Not really since all the people are already there and if they sold more tickets it would offset the costs. They empty the place for the state tourney for 4 days. It also would let all the workers have a break to eat. It is not like they get paid that much to start with and probably would like the extra couple hours on their checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Not really since all the people are already there and if they sold more tickets it would offset the costs. They empty the place for the state tourney for 4 days. It also would let all the workers have a break to eat. It is not like they get paid that much to start with and probably would like the extra couple hours on their checks. The people may like the extra money, but the league may be trying to cut costs. I don't know how many they have working at the game, but lets say it's 100. That number times $10 per hour times even 2 hours adds up to a nice little sum. I'm sure that the actual numbers are quite a bit more than that. Plus, you probably lose concessions money because people would leave and eat at one of the surrounding restaurants rather than eating a full meal at the rink. They might sell more tickets, but it may also cut into attendance at the early game. I've been to those type tournaments and I usually go to both games as long as I have a ticket. But I may not show up for both games if I have to buy a second ticket. For the Final 5 I usually bought tickets for the UND games, and sometimes skipped the other games. I never bought the tournament pass and never went to the Thursday game. The state tournament is a completely different animal because you don't know who is going to play until right before the tournament, they sell out most of the games, and while you have a base of people that go every year you also have a block of tickets set aside for the individual schools that normally sell out because it is a big deal to make the state tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The people may like the extra money, but the league may be trying to cut costs. I don't know how many they have working at the game, but lets say it's 100. That number times $10 per hour times even 2 hours adds up to a nice little sum. I'm sure that the actual numbers are quite a bit more than that. Plus, you probably lose concessions money because people would leave and eat at one of the surrounding restaurants rather than eating a full meal at the rink. They might sell more tickets, but it may also cut into attendance at the early game. I've been to those type tournaments and I usually go to both games as long as I have a ticket. But I may not show up for both games if I have to buy a second ticket. For the Final 5 I usually bought tickets for the UND games, and sometimes skipped the other games. I never bought the tournament pass and never went to the Thursday game. The state tournament is a completely different animal because you don't know who is going to play until right before the tournament, they sell out most of the games, and while you have a base of people that go every year you also have a block of tickets set aside for the individual schools that normally sell out because it is a big deal to make the state tournament. So it costs them $2,000. It might also help them to sell and extra 1,000 tickets at $40 getting them $40,000 in revenue. So $40,000-$2,000=$38,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 So it costs them $2,000. It might also help them to sell and extra 1,000 tickets at $40 getting them $40,000 in revenue. So $40,000-$2,000=$38,000. Or maybe they sell 12,000 tickets for the whole day at $45 each for a total of $540,000 versus 3,000 tickets for the afternoon game at $25 each and 10,000 tickets for the evening game at $25 for a total of $325,000. The $45 price is the actual 1 day price that was charged this year. They would not get $40 per ticket for the non-Minnesota games. That's more tickets sold, but less money doing it your way (plus extra costs by spending more on labor and lower concession sales). They are selling the tickets for both games for a lot more than they would sell individual game tickets, but probably less than 2 individual tickets. That means they are bringing in a lot more money for the afternoon game by doing it this way then they would if they were selling tickets individually because everyone attending the evening game has already paid a fee for the afternoon game whether they attend or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDNSioux Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The thing with ND is we need to get the support for hockey increased in the western part of the state. Also, ND highschoolers aren't registered with USA Hockey either. I couldnt agree more. Hockey is a fairly popular sport in ND compared to other states, but problem is that it's tough for hockey to compete with basketball in ND especially out west. I know Bismarck is building a new school and i have read in the Tribune that they are not sure if they will have enough players to support a third highschool team. Would be nice to see Watford start a highschool program and others around the state with the population growth. Hopefully hockey continues to trend up in ND but its expensive to start a program and takes years to build a quality one and almost impossible to keep up with GF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Or maybe they sell 12,000 tickets for the whole day at $45 each for a total of $540,000 versus 3,000 tickets for the afternoon game at $25 each and 10,000 tickets for the evening game at $25 for a total of $325,000. The $45 price is the actual 1 day price that was charged this year. They would not get $40 per ticket for the non-Minnesota games. That's more tickets sold, but less money doing it your way (plus extra costs by spending more on labor and lower concession sales). They are selling the tickets for both games for a lot more than they would sell individual game tickets, but probably less than 2 individual tickets. That means they are bringing in a lot more money for the afternoon game by doing it this way then they would if they were selling tickets individually because everyone attending the evening game has already paid a fee for the afternoon game whether they attend or not. You do make more sense. But then again how many non-Gopher fans are paying $45 dollars for one game to start with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 You do make more sense. But then again how many non-Gopher fans are paying $45 dollars for one game to start with? Anyone that paid the package fee but only attended a single game during the tournament. But it doesn't matter if they were Gopher fans or non-Gopher fans, the tournament and the schools probably made more money doing tickets that way then they would have if they would have sold tickets by the game. And they will probably continue to do so until there is enough interest to sell a lot of individual game tickets for both games each day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Anyone that paid the package fee but only attended a single game during the tournament. But it doesn't matter if they were Gopher fans or non-Gopher fans, the tournament and the schools probably made more money doing tickets that way then they would have if they would have sold tickets by the game. And they will probably continue to do so until there is enough interest to sell a lot of individual game tickets for both games each day. That was my comment...that as the tourney becomes more popular they would be wise to ticket each game. I'm not saying it was a reason for low attendance from UMD and MSU fans, but if 10k gopher fans snatch up all the lower bowl session tickets and then don't show up it makes for a dull atmosphere as the fans of the schools actually playing are squeezed out of the lower bowl. Granted, in such a scenario it's probably not very difficult to move down to the empty seats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That was my comment...that as the tourney becomes more popular they would be wise to ticket each game. I'm not saying it was a reason for low attendance from UMD and MSU fans, but if 10k gopher fans snatch up all the lower bowl session tickets and then don't show up it makes for a dull atmosphere as the fans of the schools actually playing are squeezed out of the lower bowl. Granted, in such a scenario it's probably not very difficult to move down to the empty seats... I believe that the fans from all schools have an equal right to buy tickets. Gopher fans don't have a special right to buy those tickets. So the fans from the other schools could buy those tickets if they want. Like I said, they are going to make more money doing it this way until they have enough demand to sell most of the tickets for both games individually. A big part of this tournament is to make money for the schools, so they will probably structure it to make money rather than worrying about the atmosphere during the afternoon game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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