College Hockey Expansion

[GeauxSioux]

I saw this over at the CSNBBS board... Eastern Illinois to join D1 Hockey

[UNDColorado]

Interesting, what conference would they join?

[geaux_sioux]

I'd like to see all B1G schools add hockey and then have a National vs B1G hockey challenge ala ACC and B1G in basketball.

[The Sicatoka]

There's a lot of skepticism about the credibility of these reports in many quarters.

[SiouxVolley]

Maybe Douple's revenge to rip UND out of the Big Sky?

Denver and Nebraska-Omaha may be in with Douple just to save their own conference hide (and essentially sacrifice the NCHC ), with a byproduct that UND wouldn't have a hockey league unless they joined the Summit. Doubt E Ill has the resources to start hockey, but waving hockey affiliation with Denver and Omaha in front of them might be enough for E Ill to move back to the Summit from the OVC. Denver and Omaha would have to be total Benedict Arnold's toward the NCHC though.

http://forum.siouxsp...chc-to-survive/

[IrishSiouxFan]

I really don't see DU and Omaha defecting over the possibility of starting a new conference with Eastern Illinois, why would you leave the best conference to start a crap one? I'm not sure what conference is going to be interested in EI with exception of WCHA, and honestly I'm sure why they would even be interested. I'm with Sic, something seems a little bit shady with this report. I wish the rumors of schools like Iowa State, Boise, and Washington exploring D1 hockey were real, those would be solid additions to the NCHC!

[SiouxVolley]

I really don't see DU and Omaha defecting over the possibility of starting a new conference with Eastern Illinois, why would you leave the best conference to start a crap one? I'm not sure what conference is going to be interested in EI with exception of WCHA, and honestly I'm sure why they would even be interested. I'm with Sic, something seems a little bit shady with this report. I wish the rumors of schools like Iowa State, Boise, and Washington exploring D1 hockey were real, those would be solid additions to the NCHC!

The Summit is worth a lot more $'s to them than the NCHC, because of NCAA dance money. What Denver and Omaha might be trying to do is slip the Summit cover on top of the NCHC - all the same teams plus E Illinois. The two schools that the Summit has always wanted are E Illinois and UND. Hockey might be the weapon they use to get it. What would really suck is that no "name" school - Iowa St, Colorado, Utah, etc - would demean its good name under that Summit conference name for hockey only.

Miami and W Michigan might take Bowling Green and add Robert Morris, Canisius, Mercyhurst, Niagara, UAH and start their own new league: a new CCHA.

[The Sicatoka]

Simple questions:

Where would EIU play? Their club team travels to Danville, IL, to practice and play home games. There's no rink in Charleston, IL. The trip is 70 miles one way.

Who else would play "Summit Hockey" besides DU and UNO? EIU? That's three. Then ... who? St. Cloud? Duluth? Can either of those two make the jump to full Division I status to join the Summit? I guess I'm not seeing the numbers. Please explain how the numbers could work.

My guess? EIU is moving from ACHA DII to ACHA DI.

[cberkas]

Simple questions:

Where would EIU play? Their club team travels to Danville, IL, to practice and play home games. There's no rink in Charleston, IL. The trip is 70 miles one way.

Who else would play "Summit Hockey" besides DU and UNO? EIU? That's three. Then ... who? St. Cloud? Duluth? Can either of those two make the jump to full Division I status to join the Summit? I guess I'm not seeing the numbers. Please explain how the numbers could work.

My guess? EIU is moving from ACHA DII to ACHA DI.

It looks to me that EIU was replying to a tweet by @USCollegeHockey, when @USCollegeHockey was talking about Illini Hockey's big anouncement that turned out to be new jerseys.

[IrishSiouxFan]

What a shameless publicity stunt, new hockey sweaters is not sufficient reason to tweet that a BIG ANNOUNCEMENT IS COMING SOON. Never a good idea to deceive your fan base.

[SiouxVolley]

Simple questions:

Where would EIU play? Their club team travels to Danville, IL, to practice and play home games. There's no rink in Charleston, IL. The trip is 70 miles one way.

Who else would play "Summit Hockey" besides DU and UNO? EIU? That's three. Then ... who? St. Cloud? Duluth? Can either of those two make the jump to full Division I status to join the Summit? I guess I'm not seeing the numbers. Please explain how the numbers could work.

My guess? EIU is moving from ACHA DII to ACHA DI.

The tweet says its about NCAA DI hockey. EIU is ACHA DII but that's not really relevant to first to be ACHA DI to go NCAA DI. Could well be a big hoax, though.

https://twitter.com/EIUHockey

The Summit only has four full members for men's soccer, but has ORU and E Illinois as affiliates in that sport so the NCAA views them as having six members. (Omaha when it is fully DI will make it seven). Right now, baseball is sitting at four (UND going to the WAC in baseball was a huge blow), with Omaha qualifying after next season. But the NCAA is demanding the Summit be at six baseball teams by next July 1st, otherwise the Summit loses their autobid unless it somehow adds another team.

If the Summit could pull in six hockey team (at least four Summit members plus 2 others), the NCAA would view hockey as the Summit's way of satisfying sponsoring a third men's team sport (basketball, soccer, and hockey rather than baseball).

A Summit Hockey Conference

Denver

Omaha (fully DI in hockey)

E Illinois

N Dakota (either as affiliate or full member)

Minn St-Mankato (as full member - hockey would count immediately as full DI)

St Cloud St (")

Mn-Duluth (")

Colorado College (as affiliate, they have to stay attached to DU)

Miami O (affiliate)

W Mich (affiliate)

If Omaha, DU, and CC pulled out, the rest of the NCHC would either have to join or go to the WCHA.

The MVFC would have to take both E Illinois and UND as football members and probably go to divisions, which would save on travel.

Faison and Kelley would not allow UND to be forced into the Summit for all sports - that's out of the question. But the Summit could still add Mankato and E Ill as full members and accomplish its goals.

There has been some rumblings with the PAC12 of sponsoring hockey - especially with the PAC12 network having launched last year. That would be a better monetary, academic, and media deal for UND than the NCHC. But a lot of "things" would have to happen for it to take place. Imagine a league of Washington, Oregon, Stanford, USC, Utah, Colorado, North Dakota, and maybe an Arizona school or two. UND could just bide its time in the WCHA until a new western league could be formed.

The two pushers for a Summit Hockey conference would have to be Trev Alberts at UNO and Peggy Hoops-Bradley at DU. Think both are very capable people and would be the movers and shakers behind the scene out of necessity to save in part of their own hides: the Summit League. Douple would be like just a fat *ss figurehead that would mostly be in their way and would be very fortunate to have them on his team: otherwise he's out of a job when the Summit plug is pulled.

[The Sicatoka]

Your Summit Hockey notion has lots of moving parts (including having to have the MVFC play along).

Wouldn't it be easier for the Summit to find a couple baseball affiliates (or get USD or DU to add the sport)? Ghastly as it would be for the Summit, NJIT baseball is available and would solve their issue.

Last thought: Would the SUs and USD allow their futures be dictated by the evil that is ... < gasp > ... ice hockey.

[SiouxVolley]

Your Summit Hockey notion has lots of moving parts (including having to have the MVFC play along).

Wouldn't it be easier for the Summit to find a couple baseball affiliates (or get USD or DU to add the sport)? Ghastly as it would be for the Summit, NJIT baseball is available and would solve their issue.

Last thought: Would the SUs and USD allow their futures be dictated by the evil that is ... < gasp > ... ice hockey.

It does, but adding baseball teams is even more difficult and distasteful (NJIT wants a full invite plus NYIT).

The whole Summit League - not just Taylor but DU and Trev Alberts - has to be livid at Faison for delivering UND baseball to the WAC. Neither DU or UNO want to join that league, but UND's baseball move could almost force that. Threatening with hockey is practically the only cards they have left to play. DU and USD aren't adding baseball.

Last thought: Would the SUs and USD allow their futures be dictated by the evil that is ... < gasp > ... ice hockey.

Ironic aint it? The Summit depending on hockey for its future survival. If NDSU would just bite the bullet, it could save the Summit League itself.

[The Sicatoka]

With Sac State and U No Colorado (fellow Big Sky schools), wasn't UND to WAC Baseball almost preordained? If DU and UNO can't see that ...

One more notion:

Will we see any moves before the "D4" leverage move by the Big Five conferences plays out?

[SiouxVolley]

With Sac State and U No Colorado (fellow Big Sky schools), wasn't UND to WAC Baseball almost preordained? If DU and UNO can't see that ...

DU and Omaha only see the Big Sky working in concert with the WAC to dismantle the Summit. They also see only NDSU from the Summit having a real chance of a Big Sky bid.

One more notion:

Will we see any moves before the "D4" leverage move by the Big Five conferences plays out?

Interesting rumor of UConn and Cincy going to the Big East, but forming a mini-league with Boise St and BYU in football, with those four getting a Big 5 invite.

[SiouxVolley]

The EIU Club Hockey tweeter says his tweet was about Illinois moving up to NCAA DI, not EIU.

EIU Hockey ‏@EIUHockey23h

@TimOneal1977 @USCollegeHockey Unfortunately we are not the team moving. Rumor has it, it is the other Illinois squad. U of I.

With the Big Ten paying out $2 mil per season per team, any new Big Ten hockey team is almost immediately in the black.

U of Illinois is renovating its State Farm Center (formerly Assembly Hall) for $140 million. Bet it includes ice capability when it is done in 2016.

http://www.dailyilli...19bb30f31a.html

Bet U of Maryland will also announce a B1G hockey team within a few years. Its former basketball home, Cole Fieldhouse already has the dimensions for hockey / arena football, but is currently standing empty. Maryland dumped a bunch of its non-revenue sports before it joined the B1G. With a lot of depth and the backing of Under Armour, Maryland is going to be pushing for more revenue generating sports.

http://en.wikipedia....ouse_INSIDE.jpg

Still believe that DU and Omaha are working behind the scenes to help fortify the Summit. Any of Minn St-Mankato, Duluth, or St Cloud would be mutually beneficial, especially if football is dropped to non-scholarship.

[cberkas]

The EIU Club Hockey tweeter says his tweet was about Illinois moving up to NCAA DI, not EIU.

With the Big Ten paying out $2 mil per season per team, any new Big Ten hockey team is almost immediately in the black.

U of Illinois is renovating its State Farm Center (formerly Assembly Hall) for $140 million. Bet it includes ice capability when it is done in 2016.

http://www.dailyilli...19bb30f31a.html

Bet U of Maryland will also announce a B1G hockey team within a few years. Its former basketball home, Cole Fieldhouse already has the dimensions for hockey / arena football, but is currently standing empty. Maryland dumped a bunch of its non-revenue sports before it joined the B1G. With a lot of depth and the backing of Under Armour, Maryland is going to be pushing for more revenue generating sports.

http://en.wikipedia....ouse_INSIDE.jpg

Still believe that DU and Omaha are working behind the scenes to help fortify the Summit. Any of Minn St-Mankato, Duluth, or St Cloud would be mutually beneficial, especially if football is dropped to non-scholarship.

After looking at the State Farm Center's renovation renderings it looks like the lower bowl seating is going to be permanent and not retractable, which would allow the ability to put a hockey rink in the area.

The Cole Fieldhouse doen't have ice making abilities neither does the Comcast Center, if Mayland was to join B1G hockey it would be more likely that the team would use the Verizon Center in D.C. (only 24 minutes from the College Park). The only way I see Under Armour backing Maryland's hockey team is if Under Armour started making hockey equipment.

[bale31]

The EIU Club Hockey tweeter says his tweet was about Illinois moving up to NCAA DI, not EIU.

With the Big Ten paying out $2 mil per season per team, any new Big Ten hockey team is almost immediately in the black.

U of Illinois is renovating its State Farm Center (formerly Assembly Hall) for $140 million. Bet it includes ice capability when it is done in 2016.

http://www.dailyilli...19bb30f31a.html

Bet U of Maryland will also announce a B1G hockey team within a few years. Its former basketball home, Cole Fieldhouse already has the dimensions for hockey / arena football, but is currently standing empty. Maryland dumped a bunch of its non-revenue sports before it joined the B1G. With a lot of depth and the backing of Under Armour, Maryland is going to be pushing for more revenue generating sports.

http://en.wikipedia....ouse_INSIDE.jpg

Still believe that DU and Omaha are working behind the scenes to help fortify the Summit. Any of Minn St-Mankato, Duluth, or St Cloud would be mutually beneficial, especially if football is dropped to non-scholarship.

First thing, that rumor of each hockey school getting $2 million per year has been debunked by the Wisconsin CFO.

Secondly, as for MSU, Duluth or St Cloud, you're making a ton of assumptions. They have all done some pretty extensive studies on the D1 viability. From Mankato's standpoint, my understanding is that there is very little ambition at this point. The funding in the state of Minnesota to anyone outside of the U is very lacking. For that matter, St. Cloud almost folded their football team just a couple of years ago. I doubt they would be able to swing it either. With the way things are structured in today's world, I don't think you're going to see too many schools jumping up to D1. The money commitment is huge and the risk is just as huge. For Omaha to do it, they had to fold their 2 most successful programs in the athletic department. I'm very skeptical of those types of expectations.

[SiouxVolley]

After looking at the State Farm Center's renovation renderings it looks like the lower bowl seating is going to be permanent and not retractable, which would allow the ability to put a hockey rink in the area.

The orange lower bowl seating looks retractable, while the blue seating isn't. For a concert venue, not having the flexibility for retractable seating at the lower level is simply ludicrous.

How does a simple remodel cost $140 million unless some major changes besides suites - like ice making - is going in? $140 million is more than enough to build a new arena in a rural area like Champaign.

The Cole Fieldhouse doen't have ice making abilities neither does the Comcast Center, if Mayland was to join B1G hockey it would be more likely that the team would use the Verizon Center in D.C. (only 24 minutes from the College Park). The only way I see Under Armour backing Maryland's hockey team is if Under Armour started making hockey equipment.

So Under Armour as a hockey garment maker doesn't count?

http://www.underarmo...rts/hockey/mens

Once upon a time, Michigan played basketball in the Yost Arena when it didn't have ice making capability. When basketball moved to the Chrysler Arena, a rink was installed at Yost to make it useful again. So that can't happen at Maryland?

[SiouxVolley]

First thing, that rumor of each hockey school getting $2 million per year has been debunked by the Wisconsin CFO.

And yet CFO Marnocha refuses to say what the benefit is. If it's $1000 below $2 mill he can say its false and he wouldn't be lying.

Secondly, as for MSU, Duluth or St Cloud, you're making a ton of assumptions. They have all done some pretty extensive studies on the D1 viability. From Mankato's standpoint, my understanding is that there is very little ambition at this point. The funding in the state of Minnesota to anyone outside of the U is very lacking. For that matter, St. Cloud almost folded their football team just a couple of years ago. I doubt they would be able to swing it either. With the way things are structured in today's world, I don't think you're going to see too many schools jumping up to D1. The money commitment is huge and the risk is just as huge. For Omaha to do it, they had to fold their 2 most successful programs in the athletic department. I'm very skeptical of those types of expectations.

Football at St Cloud, Mankato, and Duluth (in spite of the recent success at Kato and Duluth) will always be loss leaders. Financially, they can't afford to play football with scholarships. Mankato resents being left behind St Cloud and Duluth in hockey, and wants to regain an edge. Omaha folded two programs that were huge loss leaders (wrestling and football) to concentrate on those that could make money (hockey and basketball).

[jdub27]

The two pushers for a Summit Hockey conference would have to be Trev Alberts at UNO and Peggy Hoops-Bradley at DU. Think both are very capable people and would be the movers and shakers behind the scene out of necessity to save in part of their own hides: the Summit League. Douple would be like just a fat *ss figurehead that would mostly be in their way and would be very fortunate to have them on his team: otherwise he's out of a job when the Summit plug is pulled.

You give the AD at DU much more credit than I do. Plus, I can see DU just moving out of the Summit (obviously not an issue to them) rather than trying to pull off the sort of scenario you are laying out there. But who knows....

[SiouxVolley]

You give the AD at DU much more credit than I do. Plus, I can see DU just moving out of the Summit (obviously not an issue to them) rather than trying to pull off the sort of scenario you are laying out there. But who knows....

If DU is forced to move back into the WAC, the DU AD will be out of a job. DU just doesn't have many conference options, and plus they have high aspirations (getting in the Big East for lacrosse may be the AD's saving grace). The DU Board simply isn't going to tolerate being in the WAC with for-profit Grand Canyon, recent former JC Utah Valley, low standards UT Pan American, and 10% grad rate Chicago State: associating with them smears their reputation in their opinion.

[UNDColorado]

If DU is forced to move back into the WAC, the DU AD will be out of a job. DU just doesn't have many conference options, and plus they have high aspirations (getting in the Big East for lacrosse may be the AD's saving grace). The DU Board simply isn't going to tolerate being in the WAC with for-profit Grand Canyon, recent former JC Utah Valley, low standards UT Pan American, and 10% grad rate Chicago State: associating with them smears their reputation in their opinion.

Which is why they need to put aside their issues with UNC, add some real sports and get into the Big Sky.

Summit Hockey will not happen...too many moving parts.

[The Sicatoka]

Which is why they need to put aside their issues with UNC, add some real sports and get into the Big Sky.

You've hit on some of the key issues for (with?) Denver:

- they are dead-set against being in a conference with certain teams, and Northern Colorado is high on that list, and that hurts them with the Big Sky

- they have a rather (shall we politely say) eclectic mix of sport offerings that aligns well with no conference

[UNDColorado]

You've hit on some of the key issues for (with?) Denver:

- they are dead-set against being in a conference with certain teams, and Northern Colorado is high on that list, and that hurts them with the Big Sky

- they have a rather (shall we politely say) eclectic mix of sport offerings that aligns well with no conference

Yes I was referring to Denver and you are spot on.