salaries

[UND92,96]

If I were Jones, I'd be more than a little irritated about the fact that Brewster, in his first year as head coach, made a significantly higher salary than me: http://www.grandfork...ary comparison/

[SiouxVolley]

If I were Jones, I'd be more than a little irritated about the fact that Brewster, in his first year as head coach, made a significantly higher salary than me: http://www.grandfork...ary comparison/

Or how does it sit with the other coaches that Idalski is the second highest paid coach? More than anyone but Hakstol?

Part of it has to do withTitle IX equality issues, as pay for women's coaches is supposed to be somewhat "equitable".

[nodakvindy]

Or how does it sit with the other coaches that Idalski is the second highest paid coach? More than anyone but Hakstol?

Part of it has to do withTitle IX equality issues, as pay for women's coaches is supposed to be somewhat "equitable".

And maybe part of it is tied to taking his team to the NCAAs two years in a row. Sure the twins were a big catalyst for that, but he has clearly resurrected a program that was in shambles. Other than maybe Hardee, what UND coach has done that.

[SiouxVolley]

And maybe part of it is tied to taking his team to the NCAAs two years in a row. Sure the twins were a big catalyst for that, but he has clearly resurrected a program that was in shambles. Other than maybe Hardee, what UND coach has done that.

Idalski was signed to nearly that salary before the twins arrived.

Moreover, no other coach except Hakstol has had the opportunity to qualify for the NCAA playoffs two years in a row, nor do they have the facilities to match for recruiting.

[bincitysioux]

That's disgusting that the the women's hockey coach makes more than the head football coach. Also embarrassing that the first-year women's basketball coach makes more than his counterpart in the Men's program who has been here for 7 years, and has actually had some success.

[FSSD]

That's disgusting that the the women's hockey coach makes more than the head football coach. Also embarrassing that the first-year women's basketball coach makes more than his counterpart in the Men's program who has been here for 7 years, and has actually had some success.

Entitlement IX... many good and many bad things happen because of it...

[UND92,96]

Here's kind of an interesting NY Times article on the subject: http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

Because the Equal Pay Act focuses on gender-based discrimination, men who coach women’s teams are not protected, as the comparison coach is another man.

[Csonked Out]

That's disgusting that the the women's hockey coach makes more than the head football coach. Also embarrassing that the first-year women's basketball coach makes more than his counterpart in the Men's program who has been here for 7 years, and has actually had some success.

Outside of the hockey coaches, it is pretty evident that we are paying the coaches way below average for the sports. I wonder what the quality of these teams would be if we increased our coaching talent salaries by $50-$75k/year?

[FSSD]

Here is an article that I found interesting: http://www.kentucky....l-programs.html

couple of interesting quotes:

Across the U.S., the most popular women's college sport is in the red. Women's basketball at the 53 public schools in the six largest conferences recorded operating losses last fiscal year of $109.7 million, while the men's teams reported operating profits of $240 million, according to NCAA financial records

At Auburn University, salaries and benefits cost $1.14 million, or 1,783 percent of the Tigers' operating revenue of $64,225, and the program posted a $3.16 million operating loss.

[UND-FB-FAN]

Outside of the hockey coaches, it is pretty evident that we are paying the coaches way below average for the sports. I wonder what the quality of these teams would be if we increased our coaching talent salaries by $50-$75k/year?

A lot better. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "UND really only cares about hockey." (of course, that's really no secret to anyone) If UND cared about overall revenue and game day experiences, they would pay the head football coach as the 2nd highest paid coach, and men's basketball as the 3rd (or perhaps 2nd). People would much rather watch a competitive, talented football team than a women's hockey team - that's just the way it is.

[bincitysioux]

I wish they would have included Hardee's salary in there. IIRC, he also makes more than Jones.

[FSSD]

Outside of the hockey coaches, it is pretty evident that we are paying the coaches way below average for the sports. I wonder what the quality of these teams would be if we increased our coaching talent salaries by $50-$75k/year?

In general, I think the low numbers are in part due to three factors:

1) In general, relatively new head coaches with mens football and basketball.

2) UND is fairly new to Division I and Big Sky has several very established programs Weber St. basketball and Montana/Montana St in football.

3) Market rates - you are comparing cost of living in Portland, Sacramento and N. California to Grand Forks.

[UND Fan]

FSSD:

In general, I think the low numbers are in part due to three factors:

1) In general, relatively new head coaches with mens football and basketball.

***************************

While I fully agree with the comments that our FB and BB head coaches are paid much less than others (and that doesn't seem right), as FSSD notes, they both got the first head coaching jobs when we were still DII. They haven't been overly successful so they haven't gotten large increases. Simply giving each of them a $40K raise wouldn't all of a sudden make them better coaches or the programs much successful.

Hockey is No 1. at UND and probably always will be. However, I believe our existing FB and BB head coaches will be rewarded well if their programs prosper. I also think that, if they are replaced, UND will open up the purse strings to bring in quality replacements.

[Cratter]

None of that explains the is discrepancies within UND itself. Absolutely no reason a women's hockey coach should make more than the football coach!! Gee Wiz People!

[82SiouxGuy]

The coaches all show up at work each day, honoring the contracts that they signed. But some anonymous people on the internet are upset because UND isn't paying the coaches enough? I think I'll leave that to the coaches and the athletic director. Maybe I'll worry about how much UND is offering to pay coaches the next time they have an opening, or when one of the coaches has a contract up for renewal.

[Cratter]

Your not worried our men's basketball coach could kick ass next year then move on because he is getting job offers making twice as much if UND says yeah sorry we can't match that...some fans will alway be happy and say hey I trust people. It's a problem that needs to be fixed no matter how you look at it.

[choyt3]

Because if current coaches were paid more the teams would win more games?

[Cratter]

Just less likely to leave. Did Dean leave over money? Did Dale leave over money? We can speculate. Or take there public "word" for it but we will never know.

[82SiouxGuy]

Your not worried our men's basketball coach could kick ass next year then move on because he is getting job offers making twice as much if UND says yeah sorry we can't match that...some fans will alway be happy and say hey I trust people. It's a problem that needs to be fixed no matter how you look at it.

If you watched the U of M basketball coaching search you would have noticed a number of coaches getting raises because the U of M was interested in hiring them. If Jones does well and gets offers, Faison will offer as much of a raise as he can. Jones would then decide whether he wanted to stay at UND or move on. We don't know how much UND will decide that they can afford. So I'm not going to worry about your imaginary scenario. I have enough real issues to deal with without spending time worrying about imaginary issues.

UND is currently paying the coaches what they believe these specific coaches are worth based on experience and performance. As has been pointed out, most of the coaches were hired at the DII level or at the beginning of transition. They have performed well enough to be kept, but haven't excelled to the point of getting large raises. The coaches are staying, so no one has gotten a huge offer to leave. As the coaches gain experience, and as their performance warrants, they will get raises. Only time will tell whether UND is willing and able to pay the required salaries at that point. Or whether UND is willing to pay what they need to pay to replace coaches when they leave. But the current salary structure doesn't mean that UND isn't willing to pay market salaries.

I'm pretty sure that Dean left for an NHL job, which was his dream. The NHL also pays a lot more than college hockey. And Dale went to an existing FCS program that had been successful rather than going through transition. Money doesn't buy everything.

[Cratter]

UND is currently paying the coaches what they believe these specific coaches are worth based on experience and performance. As has been pointed out, most of the coaches were hired at the DII level or at the beginning of transition.

Thanks. That's my point. It's not true. No reason a first year women's basketball coach should be getting paid more than the men's.

[Cratter]

I have enough real issues to deal with without spending time worrying about imaginary issues.

What real issues are you dealing with on siouxsports.com message board?

[82SiouxGuy]

Thanks. That's my point. It's not true. No reason a first year women's basketball coach should be getting paid more than the men's.

I would guess that part of the reason goes back to timing of the hire. Brewster was hired at the end of the DI transition, and was therefore paid more on par with a mid-major level. Jones was hired in DII. He got an extension during the transition. When his contract is up he will probably get a pretty decent raise if UND wants him to stick around. As with much of life, timing can be very important. If UND continues to want Jones around, he will be paid accordingly. Whenever UND replaces Jones, the replacement will be paid more of a market price. But I don't see why UND would tear up Jones' contract now and give him a huge raise when there is no reason to do so. And just because he makes less than Brewster is not a good enough reason.

[UND92,96]

I would guess that part of the reason goes back to timing of the hire. Brewster was hired at the end of the DI transition, and was therefore paid more on par with a mid-major level. Jones was hired in DII. He got an extension during the transition. When his contract is up he will probably get a pretty decent raise if UND wants him to stick around. As with much of life, timing can be very important. If UND continues to want Jones around, he will be paid accordingly. Whenever UND replaces Jones, the replacement will be paid more of a market price. But I don't see why UND would tear up Jones' contract now and give him a huge raise when there is no reason to do so. And just because he makes less than Brewster is not a good enough reason.

Personally, I don't have a huge problem with Jones' current pay, or where he ranks relative to the rest of the Big Sky. If UND has as good of a year next year as expected, he'll get a large raise. I also had no problem whatsoever with Roebuck making significantly more than did Jones, even though having the women's coach paid more than the men's coach is highly unusual, given their respective accomplishments and length of service. But once Roebuck retired, and the decision was made to promote Brewster rather than conducting a national search, it seems to me that it may have made some sense to simply start Brewster at roughly the same pay level as Jones. It seems doubtful that Brewster was in a position to demand to be paid at roughly the same level Roebuck was; and/or to be paid significantly more than Jones.

[Matt]

I would have thought that, given where Jones' salary ranked relative to other BSC coaches going into the season, he would have earned a raise to push that ranking a bit higher after this succussful season. It seems the department just doesn't have the money to give out, so Faison extends years rather than dollars. Problem is, we've seen that the number of years in the contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The coach can leave at any time, and the school can fire and claim they are doing it for cause & force the fired coach to sue. The coach doesn't honor the years any more than the school does.

The up front dollars mean way more than tacking on years at the end of the contract.

[Bison Dan]

I would have thought that, given where Jones' salary ranked relative to other BSC coaches going into the season, he would have earned a raise to push that ranking a bit higher after this succussful season. It seems the department just doesn't have the money to give out, so Faison extends years rather than dollars. Problem is, we've seen that the number of years in the contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The coach can leave at any time, and the school can fire and claim they are doing it for cause & force the fired coach to sue. The coach doesn't honor the years any more than the school does.

The up front dollars mean way more than tacking on years at the end of the contract.

So a sub .500 season in the weakest mid major conference is a success? Good to know where your standards are.