Is Kurt Zellers UND's worst alumni?!?!

[siouxfan512]

more of a blog post but he holds year record and seems damn excited about it by looking at the picture of him giving veto pen to historical society. Quickly glanced at a few others but none seemed to give the exact number other than 299 bills in 8 years.

good stuff ... I def didn't follow the MN politics as much when I was in NoDak. Either way, I think there is plenty of blame to go around between both parties for how unproductive this session seams to have been. I think its pretty ridiculous that they have stayed in session longer than planned and effectively accomplished nothing in doing so. I will of course change my opinion on that if they find a way to get this deal done.

I have never been a fan of Mark Dayton, though this ordeal does not leave me as a fan of Mr Zellers either. I am fine with someone being against a stadium; As long as they take a firm stance and are fine with seeing the Vikings leave. But Zellers said he wants the Vikings to stay in MN and win, but will not support the stadium, meaning they will leave. His word and actions are nothing but contradicting of each other, and it is the hypocricy that really drives me nuts.

I guess whatever happens, will happen. I would just really hate to see the Vikings leave the state. I know alot of people could care less, but i am sure that they are heavily outweighed by the number of people that want them here. Alot of political reasons to support or despise a stadium. Personally, I want to keep my team and it would be nice to see some economic stimulus.

[watchmaker49]

Fair enough . . . I actually just moved back to Minneapolis from ND, and as a fan and now tax paying citizen of the state it is disappointing. Aside from losing the team that many love, it really sucks to pay all those tax dollars and not see them go to something you want.

For example, it really irritates me to see so much of our tax dollars go to programs like welfare, which seams to be a broken system that allows many people to become dependent upon it; then when a portion of those dollars could go to something i, and many, would actually enjoy, for a change, the people in power cannot work together to find a solution that would appease most if not everyone. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to bash on welfare. It is a program that is needed by many, but it certainly abused and is a bottomless pit for our tax dollars.

Seems to me that Zellers is overly stubborn and Dayton is power happy (Veto-what!)

But at the same time you support giving 100's of millions of welfare dollars to a very wealthy family so that they can make more money? You say you are not bashing welfare through your passive aggressive attack? The government is suppose to spend money on something you want? Sounds pretty socialist to me.

[UNDBIZ]

The Minnesota Sports Commission report from a year or two back noted that the total tax dollars collected since 1960 that we're attributable to all professional sports teams was ~400 million. That's 400M in 50 years. Not a profit considering the costs of the venues. If these adventures actually made money, private investors would be throwing money at them. Just like public transportation.

I kinda doubt that number took into account the taxes paid by hotels, restaurants, and stores which exist and make money only because of the sports team and stadium. Should the Vikings leave, many bars and restaurants will close, hotels will see lower profits/possible losses, and sporting goods stores which have a focus on NFL apparel will shutter. The NFL is the most popular/profitable professional sport in the US right now, losing the Vikings would be huge for MSP and the state of Minnesota.

[UNDBIZ]

Also, if you're going to base the decision on whether there is a direct profit from the investment, the government should probably get out of the business of making roads and maintaining parks.

[Ranger]

I kinda doubt that number took into account the taxes paid by hotels, restaurants, and stores which exist and make money only because of the sports team and stadium. Should the Vikings leave, many bars and restaurants will close, hotels will see lower profits/possible losses, and sporting goods stores which have a focus on NFL apparel will shutter. The NFL is the most popular/profitable professional sport in the US right now, losing the Vikings would be huge for MSP and the state of Minnesota.

Actually, it did. The report has it broken down by county, city, hotel, liquor...

-Total operating costs: 509.8M

-Total tax revenues: 458.7M

That's from combined twins, vikings, timberwolves, and wild/stars operations dated 1961-2009.

How long to recoop a billion dollars?

Also, if a business' biz plan depends on receipts from 8 days, then, well, they need a new biz plan.

[Ranger]

Also, if you're going to base the decision on whether there is a direct profit from the investment, the government should probably get out of the business of making roads and maintaining parks.

Apples and oranges... roads are requirements for commerce and safety... a vikings stadium, not so much.

[Ranger]

I think they are out if they oppose it. I used to live in Hennepin and gladly supported the whopping half a penny on every dollar I spend in the county to go towards that ballpark. And why do the "out staters" always have to burden fair share when most money in the state and people able to go are "in staters?"

***ALWAYS hated these terms. Elitist at its extreme. The rest of the state should just seceed and let msp and st paul rely on burbs for all there social, structural, and political problems.

I agree, they will be out, if they support it. Also, I would love for my section of south Minneapolis, Lyndhurst, to seceed from the city of Minneapolis. We've grown tired of our tax dollars supporting the causes of all.

[watchmaker49]

I agree, they will be out, if they support it. Also, I would love for my section of south Minneapolis, Lyndhurst, to seceed from the city of Minneapolis. We've grown tired of our tax dollars supporting the causes of all.

You live in a nice neighborhood. Broders still makes the best foccacia around. Turtle Bread also is a good place to shop.

[Ranger]

You live in a nice neighborhood. Broders still makes the best foccacia around. Turtle Bread also is a good place to shop.

Yes, the Linden Hills/Lynnhurst areas are nice places to shack up... Broders is a fam favorite. TB, OK...but haven't been in some time.

[82SiouxGuy]

Actually, it did. The report has it broken down by county, city, hotel, liquor...

-Total operating costs: 509.8M

-Total tax revenues: 458.7M

That's from combined twins, vikings, timberwolves, and wild/stars operations dated 1961-2009.

How long to recoop a billion dollars?

Also, if a business' biz plan depends on receipts from 8 days, then, well, they need a new biz plan.

That's why it isn't a stadium just for the Vikings. That's why you put a roof on it and use it another 300 days per year for other events. That's why you bring in events like a Super Bowl and an NCAA Final Four. That's why you put major concerts in the building. The stadium isn't just for the Vikings, although they are a major tenant and the reason people want to build it right now. The Metrodome cost $55 million to build and brought hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue into the state because of all the events that were held there. But the Metrodome was built on the cheap and it is time to replace it. You ask how long to recoup a billion dollars. The Vikings have arranged for more than 400 million of that, so you don't have to recoup that part. And with prices increasing as they always do, you will recoup most or all of the other 500+ over the 30 years of the Vikings lease. If Minnesota doesn't do it in the next year or 2 the Vikings will move on to another city like Los Angeles or Toronto.

[fightingsioux4life]

That's why it isn't a stadium just for the Vikings. That's why you put a roof on it and use it another 300 days per year for other events. That's why you bring in events like a Super Bowl and an NCAA Final Four. That's why you put major concerts in the building. The stadium isn't just for the Vikings, although they are a major tenant and the reason people want to build it right now. The Metrodome cost $55 million to build and brought hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue into the state because of all the events that were held there. But the Metrodome was built on the cheap and it is time to replace it. You ask how long to recoup a billion dollars. The Vikings have arranged for more than 400 million of that, so you don't have to recoup that part. And with prices increasing as they always do, you will recoup most or all of the other 500+ over the 30 years of the Vikings lease. If Minnesota doesn't do it in the next year or 2 the Vikings will move on to another city like Los Angeles or Toronto.

I think there are rumors that the NFL would like to move the Buffalo Bills to Toronto; they already have some regular season games there. In any event, I want any and all Legislators who vote against the Viking stadium to run for re-election this fall as the "Let 'em Leave" candidates. Otherwise, they are being two-faced hypocrites.

[FSSD]

I agree, they will be out, if they support it. Also, I would love for my section of south Minneapolis, Lyndhurst, to seceed from the city of Minneapolis. We've grown tired of our tax dollars supporting the causes of all.

I don't feel too sorry for MSP.

1) MSP teacher pension got dumped on the State after it lacked taxpayer support.

2) MSP over built the library system and then dumps it on Hennepin

3) One of the reason Ramsey County Stadium was dumped is because the only way MSP would support it is if they could dump the Target Center on the State or have the State pay for upgrades to the Target Center.

4) MSP shot themselve with Block E

5) MSP got the Twins stadium on the back of MOA (they passed $1 Billion in sales this year) - yet they talk down anything south of crosstown..

[UNDBIZ]

Actually, it did. The report has it broken down by county, city, hotel, liquor...

-Total operating costs: 509.8M

-Total tax revenues: 458.7M

That's from combined twins, vikings, timberwolves, and wild/stars operations dated 1961-2009.

How long to recoop a billion dollars?

Also, if a business' biz plan depends on receipts from 8 days, then, well, they need a new biz plan.

Ok, did they account for the increased taxi service, gas, shopping, and other revenues that come along with an influx of thousands of people into the cities?? Those numbers would be incredibly difficult to quantify. I haven't paid much attention to this whole deal, what's the 8 days thing about?

[82SiouxGuy]

I think there are rumors that the NFL would like to move the Buffalo Bills to Toronto; they already have some regular season games there. In any event, I want any and all Legislators who vote against the Viking stadium to run for re-election this fall as the "Let 'em Leave" candidates. Otherwise, they are being two-faced hypocrites.

The NFL would prefer to move Buffalo, or possibly let them split the season. Buffalo is going to put up a fight to keep the team and Ralph Wilson doesn't really want to leave. And Minnesota is a more immediate need. The odds would be greater for the Vikings to go west, but I have heard a few rumors about the possibility of going east.

[UNDBIZ]

If the Vikings aren't moved to LA, the Jaguars probably will be.....

[82SiouxGuy]

If the Vikings aren't moved to LA, the Jaguars probably will be.....

They could actually both go. Or one of those 2 and San Diego. They want 2 teams in LA. There are 2 stadium proposals in place. One of the 2 stadium proposals would actually like to have 2 teams in that stadium like in New York. But they won't move 3 teams so it will be either 1 in each stadium or only the 1 stadium gets built. One team will probably commit to move in the next 1-2 years, and then it will be interesting to see if a second agrees to go.

[FSSD]

That's why it isn't a stadium just for the Vikings. That's why you put a roof on it and use it another 300 days per year for other events. That's why you bring in events like a Super Bowl and an NCAA Final Four. That's why you put major concerts in the building. The stadium isn't just for the Vikings, although they are a major tenant and the reason people want to build it right now. The Metrodome cost $55 million to build and brought hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue into the state because of all the events that were held there. But the Metrodome was built on the cheap and it is time to replace it. You ask how long to recoup a billion dollars. The Vikings have arranged for more than 400 million of that, so you don't have to recoup that part. And with prices increasing as they always do, you will recoup most or all of the other 500+ over the 30 years of the Vikings lease. If Minnesota doesn't do it in the next year or 2 the Vikings will move on to another city like Los Angeles or Toronto.

I agree the Viking stadium deal is ten time better than Twins deal. The Twins stadium is basically for the Twins only with no roof and they paid next to nothing ($130 million) for it but gets all revenue from it... how the naming rights agreement was never made public is beyond me and shows how much that deal just plain and simple stinks.,..

Team Value 2005 $178 million in 2011 $490 milion. Revenue for 2011 $213 million not a bad deal for Carl who kicked in $130 million.

[watchmaker49]

Yes, the Linden Hills/Lynnhurst areas are nice places to shack up... Broders is a fam favorite. TB, OK...but haven't been in some time.

The South Jersey Hoagie on Focaccia mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. A loaf of focaccia amd their home made red pepper mascarpone mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Their fresh pasta mmmmmmmmmmm The first time I went there must be 24 years ago now.

[jodcon]

Ok, did they account for the increased taxi service, gas, shopping, and other revenues that come along with an influx of thousands of people into the cities?? Those numbers would be incredibly difficult to quantify. I haven't paid much attention to this whole deal, what's the 8 days thing about?

The 8 days is referring to the 8 home games the Vikings have every year, which is one of the biggest reasons a new NFL stadium plan faces opposition. It is quite a bit easier to sell a stadium plan for baseball than it is football simply because of having 81 home revenue dates instead of 8, which brings in approx. 2.5 million fans compared to .5 million. I understand the thinking there, and it makes good business sense.

Of course it's not a true indicator across the board...football tickets are higher, merchandise sales are higher, and the crowd is twice as big, so the revenue is probably somewhat closer than the attendance numbers, but baseball is definitely a better deal and an easier stadium sell.

As far as the tax revenue numbers go, the last 10 years would be a better indicator because the Wolves have only been around for about 20 years plus the cost of goods sold has increased dramatically in 50 years, so the numbers are a bit skewed using todays figures. According to the numbers they presented it boils down to $9 million/year or 50k/game for the approx. 180 home games the 4 teams play, which would be around $2. per attending fan. That is not realistic in todays dollars.

Another thing I wondered is if the amount the players paid in Minnesota state income tax is figured into this equation? I'm sure the pro athletes who live in Minnesota or live there half-year during their season must have to pay state income tax on their salaries don't they? In the case of someone like Mauer that number would be huge, his salary is over $20 million/year so his state tax liability would be what...between 1 and 1.5 million? Or am I off base here? If true those numbers couldn't have been factored in either, or as I've said before should be reworked for the last 10 years.

[82SiouxGuy]

The 8 days is referring to the 8 home games the Vikings have every year, which is one of the biggest reasons a new NFL stadium plan faces opposition. It is quite a bit easier to sell a stadium plan for baseball than it is football simply because of having 81 home revenue dates instead of 8, which brings in approx. 2.5 million fans compared to .5 million. I understand the thinking there, and it makes good business sense.

Of course it's not a true indicator across the board...football tickets are higher, merchandise sales are higher, and the crowd is twice as big, so the revenue is probably somewhat closer than the attendance numbers, but baseball is definitely a better deal and an easier stadium sell.

As far as the tax revenue numbers go, the last 10 years would be a better indicator because the Wolves have only been around for about 20 years plus the cost of goods sold has increased dramatically in 50 years, so the numbers are a bit skewed using todays figures. According to the numbers they presented it boils down to $9 million/year or 50k/game for the approx. 180 home games the 4 teams play, which would be around $2. per attending fan. That is not realistic in todays dollars.

Another thing I wondered is if the amount the players paid in Minnesota state income tax is figured into this equation? I'm sure the pro athletes who live in Minnesota or live there half-year during their season must have to pay state income tax on their salaries don't they? In the case of someone like Mauer that number would be huge, his salary is over $20 million/year so his state tax liability would be what...between 1 and 1.5 million? Or am I off base here? If true those numbers couldn't have been factored in either, or as I've said before should be reworked for the last 10 years.

As I pointed out above, it is misrepresenting the stadium to say it is just a Vikings stadium. High school football state tournaments will be held there. Concerts will be held there. There is pretty good chance a Super Bowl and at least one NCAA Final Four will be held there. Truck pulls will be held there. The stadium will be used 200-300 times per year, not the 8 (actually 10 because of preseason) games per year. All of these bring people into the stadium. Those people pay for parking, eat, sometimes stay in hotels, etc. Those dollars should also be considered in the process.

Many states now require that professional players play income tax for each game in the state where the game is played. I don't remember if Minnesota does this, but I think they do. So Mauer would pay income tax on 1/2 of his salary in Minnesota. He probably has to pay income tax in Texas, California, Washington, New York, etc. But that also means Alex Rodriguez and other players would pay income tax in Minnesota.

[jodcon]

As I pointed out above, it is misrepresenting the stadium to say it is just a Vikings stadium. High school football state tournaments will be held there. Concerts will be held there. There is pretty good chance a Super Bowl and at least one NCAA Final Four will be held there. Truck pulls will be held there. The stadium will be used 200-300 times per year, not the 8 (actually 10 because of preseason) games per year. All of these bring people into the stadium. Those people pay for parking, eat, sometimes stay in hotels, etc. Those dollars should also be considered in the process.

Many states now require that professional players play income tax for each game in the state where the game is played. I don't remember if Minnesota does this, but I think they do. So Mauer would pay income tax on 1/2 of his salary in Minnesota. He probably has to pay income tax in Texas, California, Washington, New York, etc. But that also means Alex Rodriguez and other players would pay income tax in Minnesota.

I'm not advocating either way on the stadium issue, just responding to the 8 game question. If they are looking at a domed stadium it changes everything as far as potential revenue goes, they could keep it busy all year which would be much more justifiable to the voters, of course it would cost more to build and maintain but the bottom line would erase all those issues.

If you're correct about the income tax issue those numbers couldn't be factored into the given numbers, someone like Aaron Rodgers coming to town and getting taxed on 1/16 of his yearly wage for 3 hours of work would add up in a hurry, and even if it is the other way and the tax only applies to just Minnesota guys it would add up to many millions. That number times 30 years should be a major consideration during this process.

[watchmaker49]

As I pointed out above, it is misrepresenting the stadium to say it is just a Vikings stadium. High school football state tournaments will be held there. Concerts will be held there. There is pretty good chance a Super Bowl and at least one NCAA Final Four will be held there. Truck pulls will be held there. The stadium will be used 200-300 times per year, not the 8 (actually 10 because of preseason) games per year. All of these bring people into the stadium. Those people pay for parking, eat, sometimes stay in hotels, etc. Those dollars should also be considered in the process.

Many states now require that professional players play income tax for each game in the state where the game is played. I don't remember if Minnesota does this, but I think they do. So Mauer would pay income tax on 1/2 of his salary in Minnesota. He probably has to pay income tax in Texas, California, Washington, New York, etc. But that also means Alex Rodriguez and other players would pay income tax in Minnesota.

I wonder how that would work for people who live in states like Nevada and TN. who have no state income tax.

[UNDBIZ]

The 8 days is referring to the 8 home games the Vikings have every year, which is one of the biggest reasons a new NFL stadium plan faces opposition. It is quite a bit easier to sell a stadium plan for baseball than it is football simply because of having 81 home revenue dates instead of 8, which brings in approx. 2.5 million fans compared to .5 million. I understand the thinking there, and it makes good business sense.

Ah k, I suppose it would help if the Vikings hosted playoff games more often

[Ranger]

Also, don't dismiss the interest on the borrowed cash (state and city). One recent report suggests Minneapolis' share could bloat to $892M in the 30 year schedule.

[BigGreyAnt41]

Another thing I wondered is if the amount the players paid in Minnesota state income tax is figured into this equation? I'm sure the pro athletes who live in Minnesota or live there half-year during their season must have to pay state income tax on their salaries don't they? In the case of someone like Mauer that number would be huge, his salary is over $20 million/year so his state tax liability would be what...between 1 and 1.5 million? Or am I off base here? If true those numbers couldn't have been factored in either, or as I've said before should be reworked for the last 10 years.

Unless I misunderstood what I heard on the radio, Vikings players pay a combined $20 million in state income taxes each year.

The math I just did says they pay about $7 million a year. $91 million payroll for this season, and a 7.85% state tax rate. I know it's more complicated than this, but it's close. I'm not going to run the math for the other sports teams so I don't know how it compares to the numbers previously stated, but it's something to consider. Just thought I'd share.