Bison_Kent Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 I am not bitter. I am just wondering what is best for D2 football. NDSU and UND hosting the Elite 8 tournaments is what was best for women's basketball those years. The only question I have is what is best having more people in Florence, Alabama or in Grand Forks, ND. Based on the first two playoff games attendences, the best would be to keep the game in Florence. This gives more revenue for the division and more fan base. UND had two games to prove that they should host. Two sell-outs would really go a long way to get the game in GF. But two sell-outs (or even close) were not seen. Good luck to Sioux and I hope you win as I am a fan of all the NCC teams in the playoffs when the Bison don't make it. If I were in your shoes, I would be glad to have another home game but I would be amongst the 19,000 that would show up at the FargoDome. I hope there are 11,000 fans in the Alarius Saturday. By not having a sell-out, it looks badly on the state of North Dakota. And when there is a next time, the D2 committees might just chose the other location. Quote
U2Bad1 Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 No way the fargodome sells out in any game that doesnt involve a football team from Grand Forks. Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 The way it sounds like to me is that this move was predecided. This move wasn't predecided and the quote from the newspaper would have been added in before print. The GF Herald had it in their paper also. Quote
WYOBISONMAN Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 A Sioux fan over on the Bisonville board thought that maybe UND got the game because if UNA make it to the title game they would have had the home field the whole way through the playoffs. That actually could make some sense and was an interesting observation. I do think that UND will get stomped on Saturday, but I hope you don't. I, again, will be pulling for those most despised Sioux.... Quote
jimdahl Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 A Sioux fan over on the Bisonville board thought that maybe UND got the game because if UNA make it to the title game they would have had the home field the whole way through the playoffs. That actually could maske some sense and was an interesting observation. Yep, I've heard that from a few different sources. That's why the Winona announcer said "the winner of this game hosts UNA" during his broadcast; he said that it had been predecided by the committee that they weren't going to let UNA have home field all the way through the championship game, even if it meant sending UNA to play in Winona. Quote
DopplerAEA Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 You guys talk about strength of schedule like UNA played all D3 opponents. I am from UNA. First of all, we defeated the #1 team in the country in Valdosta State on their home field. 2nd, we defeated the then 15th ranked team in the country on their home field. 3rd, we defeated a former D2 power current Division 1-AA opponent Jacksonville State on their home field. I'd say this is NOT a weak schedule. That's three big name or nationally ranked teams. The rest, we completely blew out. The GSC all year has had the most teams ranked in the top 25 in division 2, tied with one other conference (I believe its the one Texas A&M Kingsville is in). Now, if that's a weak schedule, then someone doesn't know what they are talking about. I believe that the reason we are playing away is that they don't want us to have every game away since the Championship Game is in Florence. I can understand that, but it also takes away the premise of the higher seeded team should always have home field, regardless. This is also the problem of having a D2 school host the championship game, but hey, you just have to deal with it as it comes. I just don't believe strength of schedule was a factor... I know we are all looking forward to this game. This year has given UNA a reason to be excited about football again. I wish you all luck this weekend, and keep an eye out for Will Hall, our quarterback. He is incredible, and exciting to watch. Quote
UND Fan Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 Doppler -- I agree - UNA's schedule should not be considered weak. It is unfortunate that you have to play this game away from home - you deserve the home field advantage, even if the championship game is down there. Good luck - I hope we can stay with you! Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 I can understand that, but it also takes away the premise of the higher seeded team should always have home field, regardless. Technically, you are not the higher seed, both UND and UNA were #1 seeds. UNA is higher in the national polls, but not a higher seed, according to the criteria the NCAA looks at. Quote
sprig Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 Good luck to Sioux and I hope you win as I am a fan of all the NCC teams in the playoffs when the Bison don't make it. If I were in your shoes, I would be glad to have another home game but I would be amongst the 19,000 that would show up at the FargoDome. I hope there are 11,000 fans in the Alarius Saturday. By not having a sell-out, it looks badly on the state of North Dakota. And when there is a next time, the D2 committees might just chose the other location. Must be your other brother bison kent that posted this on the UNA board: The Lions will tromp the Sioux even though the game is the horrible city of Grand Forks. UNAFan05 is correct. UND will always play the second fiddle to NDSU. NDSU is moving to the I-AA ranks next season and is leaving UND behind as they aren't up for the challenge. Alarius? looks badly? College graduate or elementary drop-out? Quote
Sandram Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 I'm a UNA fan and just wanted to explain the "logic" as to why UND was selected to host the semi-final game. UND played 10 Div II games this year with a 9-1 record. UNA played 9 Div II games with a 9-0 record. UNA played a "provisional" Div II opponent (Stillman College) and also a Div I-AA team (Jacksonville St.) at Jacksonville St. and won that game. Jacksonville St. went on to win the Ohio Valley Conference and make the Div I-AA playoffs. However, the two non Div II games do not count. The fact that UND and UNA both won 9 Div. II games is all that matters. The deciding factor was UND played more Div II opponents as was rewarded for that. The committee is trying to get more teams to schedule within the division instead of going to other divisions for extra games. The polls, how many home games a playoff team has, the fact the championship game is in Florence - none of that matters. It's all ok - a decision had to be made. At least this Lion fan is looking forward to visiting Grand Forks and playing in an indoor stadium. If UND wins, I look forward to hosting you guys back in Florence the following week. Here's to good comptetion and deciding the national championship on the field and NOT in the polls! Best of luck to both teams! Sandram Quote
Sandram Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 By the way, while I'm on this board, I want to let all UND fans and the entire Grand Forks community know that at least this UNA fan is praying for Dru, her family, friends, and all those helping to look for her. It's been heartbreaking to listen to the news reports. Sandram Quote
LionFan Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 Good morning Sioux fans... To follow up on what Sandram was just saying, here is a link from our local paper, the Florence TimesDaily. http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...333/1011/NEWS01 It basically says the same thing. Playing a provisional DII opponent in Stillman, and a 1-AA opponent in Jacksonville State made the difference in our strength of schedule. Personally, I don't see how they can penalize our strength of schedule for playing (and BEATING) an eventual conference champion in 1-AA, but I guess that's a rant for another time. Also, one more link if you are interested, with Coach Mark Hudspeth talking about the decision and the game. http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../312010336/1019 Good luck on Saturday. Go Lions! Chris H. Florence, AL Quote
UNDvince97-01 Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 attendance figures had NO bearing on the decision to have UND host this weekend. the only thing that really mattered was the SOS index. the NCAA wants to keep consistent with their selection criteria throughout the playoffs. the fact that UNA had played 1-AA Jacksonville St., who is a good team, and then played a provisional D2 team (not yet in D2), really hurt their SOS in the long run. so, YES it was predecided, based on SOS index. it just proves how much sense it doesnt make to play a D1-AA team when you are in D2. first NDSU over Montana, and UNA over Jacksonville. both are very quality wins on the road against good D1-AA programs. both eventually ended up hurting these teams in the long run. is it starting to sink in now? we should NOT play NDSU anymore precisely because of these reasons. you could argue, however that UNA should host based on record, but that also can be fought because of regional seeding and SOS, which are before overall record in the criteria of deciding where to have a playoff game. dang it, another drive from minneapolis to GF. i am so sick of making that haul. it will be the 7th time this year for me. but, it is definitely worth it. i'll be there with bells on. looking forward to seeing you all there. GO SIOUX!! Quote
jimdahl Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 What that article actually says is that it DID come down to the SOS -- UND had a better SOS so is the host. I personally think the SOS is quite arbitrary and flawed in that it goes just by opponents win% and doesn't account for those opponents' strengths of schedule (think RPI as used in D-I basketball). I'm not so bothered that it doesn't reward playing non-DII institutions, since that was a conscious goal of the committee. I don't know much about UNA's opponents at all, so can't say they played a weak schedule; however, they did have a weaker SOS, as defined by the committee. I don't understand why you'd go by number of wins instead of win% for the first criterion, because then you reward a team for playing an extra game. Apparently the whacky SOS figure trumps all. Quote
choyt3 Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 I am not bitter. I am just wondering what is best for D2 football. <snip> Uh-huh. OK. We believe you. Quote
OETKB Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 Look...the NCAA committee member came out in the article and said SOS was THE reason. Why are we debating it? And no, UND will not be "destroyed" this weekend. They may lose, but it will not be so lobsided as some (Bored, no team to cheer for) fans would have us believe. Quote
UND92,96 Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 And no, UND will not be "destroyed" this weekend. They may lose, but it will not be so lobsided as some (Bored, no team to cheer for) fans would have us believe. I agree. With regard to the whole speed issue, let's keep in mind that relative to midwest region teams, the top teams from the south probably always have a speed advantage. And yet, the South has managed just one national championship in the past seven years compared to five for the supposedly big and slow teams from the midwest. Funny how that works, huh? Let's face it, while I'm sure North Alabama has a very good team and very possibly better than UND, it's not as though we're playing Miami here. There are enough I-A and I-AA schools in the South, not to mention northern schools recruiting in the South, so that any true superstar is probably not going to be attending North Alabama or any other dII school unless none of the big boys wanted them. The talent discrepancy will not be as big as some believe, and playing at home will even the playing field somewhat, as well. Don't think for a minute that the UND players are going to be at all intimidated on Saturday. Quote
WYOBISONMAN Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 Don't get me wrong...I am very impressed and surprised with what the Sioux put together. And I like to see any NCC team whip up on the rest of the country. But, when you look at UNA and who they have beaten this season, I think that UND will get smoked. However, the Sioux have been full of surprises. I think that UND has performed so well this season that it may be tough to keep Lennon as coach. It will be interesting to watch the post playoff time period and se what offers he gets. My estimation of Lennon as a coach has improved greatly with this seasons performance. I still like Bohl much more as a head coach, especially after the turnaround he engineered at NDSU this year. At the beginning of the season I thought we probably would go .500 or maybe one game better than that. Quote
UND92,96 Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 Don't get me wrong...I am very impressed and surprised with what the Sioux put together. And I like to see any NCC team whip up on the rest of the country. But, when you look at UNA and who they have beaten this season, I think that UND will get smoked. However, the Sioux have been full of surprises. Who UNA has beaten? Wait a minute, isn't that a subtle jab at the teams UND has beaten, e.g. NDSU? Quote
PCM Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 But, when you look at UNA and who they have beaten this season, I think that UND will get smoked. I seem to remember certain Bison fans making this same prediction right after NDSU beat Montana. Quote
legend334 Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 I disagree and think Lennon will stay at UND forever...unless some big time job comes up and is irresistable.....he is a UND guy has bled green forever and will always....Bohl a better coach??? did he bring any Husker cheerleaders with him to NDSU....or did his ex wife kick them all out of their house??? Quote
WYOBISONMAN Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 Makes no difference to me.....Bohl produced a winning team. Quote
Sandram Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 I have no knowledge of UND's SOS - however, I can comment on UNA's. The only out of conference games were against Jax St. (Div I-AA playoff team) and a clearly inferior Stillman College. The other 9 games were in the Gulf South Conference. Although the Div II polls are not used by the selection committee, you can look at the final poll to get an idea of the strength of this conference. Valdosta St. was #1 for most of the year until UNA beat them at Valdosta St. Southern Arkansas was in the top 20 all year with only losses to Valdosta St. and twice to UNA - once in regular season and once in playoffs. Beyond that, Delta St. only lost to Valdosta St. but somehow did not make the playoffs (still don't understand taking Southern Arkansas over them into the playoffs). The rest of UNA's GSC schedule was routine - can't really judge how Central Arkansas, for instance, would compare to other teams. As for UND's size - I would agree with whoever said large teams do tend to do well in the playoffs. I have watched very big teams win the championship game - Northern Colorado, UND in 2001, Northwest Missouri St., Pittsburg St. come to mind. I predict a close, high energy game on Saturday. Of course I'm rooting for UNA, but wish both teams the best! Sandram Quote
WYOBISONMAN Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 UND is known for thier interesting schedule.....playing such challenging teams as Crookston....yawn. Quote
airmail Posted December 1, 2003 Posted December 1, 2003 UND is known for thier interesting schedule.....playing such challenging teams as Crookston....yawn. ...and NDSU. (another yawn) Quote
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