johnsowe Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Funny how all of a sudden this is an issue for the big sky and this bs about the wishes of the tribes. What about the tribes that want the name? Maybe we should be a independent and be like Notre Dame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yeah back to the original title of this thread - Kelly talks to Big Sky & once again "it's taken care of " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 It wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, but it was after Nagasaki was bombed. Consider this the atom bomb on Nagasaki for the Fighting Sioux name. Note 1: I know the Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor. Note 2: I'm not trying to make light of a bomb dropped on people. What's truly sad is the need for you to have qualifications Note 1 and Note 2 on what you said. No one who knows how you post would even assume any of that. I disagree with the viewpoint expressed but I am certainly not going to drum up some paranoid presumptions concerning what you wrote. Your Notes 1 and 2 is a microcosm of the mentality behind this whole silly nickname business that people feel the need to placate. By your Notes 1 and 2, you're acquiescing to that sort of paranoia and giving it weight and credence. You have no need to qualify your statements. You are not among Leigh Jenotte's or RHHIT's here. Say what you have to say and let those with paranoid presumptions take their problems to their shrinks. You never know, what you say may be cathartic for some such person in terms of starting a process to improve one's mental health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Sorry bro, the NCAA calls the shots here. The State/UND agreed to settle the lawsuit against the NCAA. UND didn't get tribal approval and now the nickname must be retired. The point is that the whole policy has been idiotic from day one and there should never have been a need for a legislative vote, there should have never been a need for the Big Sky to write this letter, there never should have been a need to have a lawsuit. It's crazy. Plan B should be to have Hoeven and Berg (Conrad's a lost cause -- always has been and always will be. Mark Andrews: You were sorely missed and I will always be pissed at you for suing the Fargo doctors) start talking to the NCAA. Time to get the computers hot with emails again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackburn87 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I am disheartened but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. There is some fight left and there are possible ideas that are untested. Spirt Lake Sioux has a nice ring to it and might satisfy the various players. Oddly enough, had we never moved toward retiring name but simply accepted the sanctions, I wonder what would have happened? To be honest, I'm tired of North Dakota being treated like the proverbial "red-headed stepchild" because it stands up for itself and refuses to capitulate on this issue. The people are right and the vast majority of Americans agree with us that this politically correct pablum that all Native American imagery and monikers are racist is just plain wrong. I don't have the answer yet, but I don't think the sky is falling either. As far as I see it, the nickname issue is settled: it's state law. The sanctions are so far, settled, and we accepted them as a likely outcome to keep the name. The Spirit Lake Tribe supports us. For Big Sky to now say ths issue isn't settled is just plain old bullsh*t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I am sure that at the Big Sky meetings of School Presidents that President Bob did his "best" to explain that UND actually has the support of the Spirit Lake Tribe and was given approval by Standing Rock in a tribal ceremony that is binding and irreversable according to their traditions and culture, and that given the chance the current members of Standing Rock would also overwhelmingly give their support of the continued use of the Sioux name, so either the Big Sky Presidents are dense(entirely possible) or Bob has a hard time explaining the facts of the issue effectively(more probable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I am sure that at the Big Sky meetings of School Presidents that President Bob did his "best" to explain that UND actually has the support of the Spirit Lake Tribe and was given approval by Standing Rock in a tribal ceremony that is binding and irreversable according to their traditions and culture, and that given the chance the current members of Standing Rock would also overwhelmingly give their support of the continued use of the Sioux name, so either the Big Sky Presidents are dense(entirely possible) or Bob has a hard time explaining the facts of the issue effectively(more probable). You have no idea of how it went down and we can both assume what we want. If Bob laid out the facts, exactly how they stand right now, the current agreements and laws that are in place don't make the NCAA happy. That is the truth and the fault for that can be spread around to a lot of people spread over a number of years. The truth is this is this isn't about making the BSC happy, its about making the NCAA happy, and we've had a few years to accomplish that and haven't. As clearly stated in the letter the BSC is part of the NCAA and there isn't a school in there who is going to ruffle the feathers of the NCAA for the sake of a school who hasn't started conference play yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 The point is that the whole policy has been idiotic from day one and there should never have been a need for a legislative vote, there should have never been a need for the Big Sky to write this letter, there never should have been a need to have a lawsuit. It's crazy. Plan B should be to have Hoeven and Berg (Conrad's a lost cause -- always has been and always will be. Mark Andrews: You were sorely missed and I will always be pissed at you for suing the Fargo doctors) start talking to the NCAA. Time to get the computers hot with emails again. Yet, no matter how idiotic you think the NCAA policy is, the organization has no reason to change it. The lawsuit settled. Game over. If the legislature had taken the time to consult a competent, unbaised attorney, it would have been made clear that the new law is arguably unconstitutional and it encourages a lawsuit that is barred by a release of claims contained in the settlement agreement between the NCAA and the State/UND. As far as your Plan B goes, if you think Hoeven and Berg are going to step up on this issue, you are going to be waiting a loooooong time. Hoeven has never stuck his neck out on a controversial issue. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Folks, this one is done. Suck it up. Get over it. Move on. The NCAA isn't going to budge. Wisconsin and Minnesota won't come near us when they are out of the WCHA (nor will they in other sports). The Big Sky is stating what are some pretty obvious observations from where they sit. And I'm thinking the Big Sky feels misled because the change process was underway when they took in UND. Now, given the Legislative action, they just feel taken. At this point UND is just in a terrible bind between state law and the NCAA settlement. UND can't become a pariah, and given all of the above, it's on the fast track to that. It's done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Folks, this one is done. Suck it up. Get over it. Move on. The NCAA isn't going to budge. Wisconsin and Minnesota won't come near us when they are out of the WCHA (nor will they in other sports). The Big Sky is stating what are some pretty obvious observations from where they sit. And I'm thinking the Big Sky feels misled because the change process was underway when they took in UND. Now, given the Legislative action, they just feel taken. At this point UND is just in a terrible bind between state law and the NCAA settlement. UND can't become a pariah, and given all of the above, it's on the fast track to that. It's done. There are still some who would cut off their nose to spite their face. Change the name, join a great athletic conference covering most of your sports, become a member of good standing to your peers and enjoy some good athletic competition OR keep the name, causing Minnesota and Wisconsin not play you in any sport, the Big Sky to blackball you and have no other conference touch you with a 10' pole. Hmmm, now what should we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hmmm, now what should we do? That's easy: Enjoy the best kind of victory. And what's that? Well, they think they're leaving us for dead. The best revenge is to come back stronger than ever and continue to beat them, at their game, by their rules, on their field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Oh, and as far as a moniker, what're the Governor and the AG going to do, send all of UND to the state pen for not using the Sioux name? Seriously? The new moniker is clear ... call us ... The Outlaws. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Oh, and as far as a moniker, what're the Governor and the AG going to do, send all of UND to the state pen for not using the Sioux name? Seriously? The new moniker is clear ... call us ... The Outlaws. You already got my +1 for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Outlaws ? - we have not broken any laws yet - or really had a fair trial - a appeal is in order - some of you are too easy / quick to give up & if they sense a lynch mob in hanging a innocent person - these guys (NCAA) will let it happen I have faith (Sheriff) Dalrymple & (Deputy) Wrigley have not had their show down yet & have not completely played their hand - why should they ? Things needed to play out & they are - don't measure for the pine boxes just yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farce poobah Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 The Last Warrior stands proudly, facing his pursuers. He has not dropped his weapons or his shield. Standing tall to his principles, he has not surrendered. His pursuers are determined to force surrender or death. His existence poses a threat to their sense of being. While others in their community might have tolerated his existence, the posse is determined. The Last Warrior has friends. His friends have given different opinions. Some say fight on, while others say surrender and live. One last choice is to spend a life on the run, independent of a family, occasionally spotted and pursued by the posse. He may be able to exist forever, but such a choice is not really a life at all, but merely an existence. The choice rests with the Last Warrior: will he choose surrender, or death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hey that was good - but were not there yet do you young folks with these electronic readers skip chapters or maybe with computers can now write your own endings ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 The people at these other institutions (NCAA, BSC, pick the university) will believe what they want to believe and they believe they are right, no matter Al Carlson, Drew Wrigley, or Jack Dalrymple. They'll do what they want. Nothing forces them to schedule UND. And do you really think if UND were to take on the NCAA and win these schools would then want to schedule UND? After beating the NCAA? We're on a collision course with pariah status either way (keep the name or beat the NCAA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 I'd take the name over Minn & Wisco their loss - If they feel that way after we win then they are misinformed &/or hostile & abusive to what is the truth 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I'd take the name over Minn & Wisco their loss - If they feel that way after we win then they are misinformed &/or hostile & abusive to what is the truth Okay, you don't mind UND not playing Minn or Wisc. in hockey. What about the rest of the UND athletic teams and their athletes, if the Big Sky decides North Dakota will not be allowed to join? Can you imagine the scheduling difficulties, recruiting problems, coaches leaving, .... ? THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT HOCKEY!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 I realize that - but it's not time to panic & accept defeat either - we all knew this was going to be part of the last fight - many of you were ready to accept defeat long ago with this fear of affects on D1 - don't blink (or turn & run) just yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 & one more correction if UND were to take on the NCAA and win It is now taking on North Dakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackburn87 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 It is time for North Dakota to stand up and be counted. I'm tired of watching bigger schools (and states) get a pass while North Dakota and UND gets kicked around on this issue. The question is asked time and time again and never answered: why are the Seminoles considered different than the Sioux? Both tribes have lent their support for their respective schools to use the tribal names. Both schools have outlying tribes who do not support it. I'm not sure why the "two tribes" agreement for us and not them, especially since so much of Standing Rock lies outside of North Dakota's border. The NCAA needs to be educated on the slap on the face they're giving to the people of Spirit Lake who have passionately backed keeping the name, through lawsuits, letters, testimony, and pure effort. Hell, they've fought harder then most of our alumni! If we just shrug our shoulders and cave we have insulted an indigenious group of people who are part of the fabric of our state. I would dare the NCAA or the Big Sky to look across the table at the Spirit Lake leadership and tell them that the Sioux name is offensive. They couldn't do it with a straight face and they know it. The leadership needs to meet with the NCAA and bring the tribal leadership with them. It's insulting for the disconnected people in the ivory tower to assume they know what's best for Spirit Lake, the people who honor the Standing Rock ceremony, UND and the people of North Dakota. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Outlaws ? - we have not broken any laws yet - or really had a fair trial - a appeal is in order - some of you are too easy / quick to give up & if they sense a lynch mob in hanging a innocent person - these guys (NCAA) will let it happen I have faith (Sheriff) Dalrymple & (Deputy) Wrigley have not had their show down yet & have not completely played their hand - why should they ? Things needed to play out & they are - don't measure for the pine boxes just yet Who are they going to show down with? Some of you need to understand that the NCAA has zero motivation to change their course, the easiest thing for them to do is just sit back and say we settled this a few years ago and you knew what the consequences were going to be. That may not be right or fair but it is reality. The only thing that will change that reality is if the current Standing Rock tribal council gives their blessing for UND to keep the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almostheavenin2011 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 The Last Warrior stands proudly, facing his pursuers. He has not dropped his weapons or his shield. Standing tall to his principles, he has not surrendered. His pursuers are determined to force surrender or death. His existence poses a threat to their sense of being. While others in their community might have tolerated his existence, the posse is determined. The Last Warrior has friends. His friends have given different opinions. Some say fight on, while others say surrender and live. One last choice is to spend a life on the run, independent of a family, occasionally spotted and pursued by the posse. He may be able to exist forever, but such a choice is not really a life at all, but merely an existence. The choice rests with the Last Warrior: will he choose surrender, or death? Is this suppose to make the supporters look like the great Sioux warrior hey want to pretend to be? What about the other group that does not want to partake in the suicide mission? What is it too bad for you I will take you down with my stand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almostheavenin2011 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Getting a ruling in a court of law that the NCAA cannot legally uphold sanctions against a school for obeying state law would also mean "taken care of" What happens when the NCAA tells the court that the law was inacted to try and renege on a legal settlement? I would guess the settlement to the suit, which was filed by the ones now trying to renege on the argeement, will not fly with the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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