UND1983 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Where are all the Bison fans this week? They were everywhere on here the last couple weeks. What changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 And Northern Iowa had way better timing than the both of us.............................. Agreed. It really is too bad the entire NCC couldn't go at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Where are all the Bison fans this week? They were everywhere on here the last couple weeks. What changed? What do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 What do you need? Nothing special. Looking for updates on FCS football, who is good, who is bad, why UND stinks, how we can get better.... the usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Nothing special. Looking for updates on FCS football, who is good, who is bad, why UND stinks, how we can get better.... the usual. NDSU got the wakeup call we needed. Everyone else (except MVFC teams) sucks...UND stinks cause yeah. Good enough yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Nothing special. Looking for updates on FCS football, who is good, who is bad, why UND stinks, how we can get better.... the usual. NDSU got outplayed last week but should bounce back against USD. Hopefully (and I'm assumiong so) UND has defensive players redshirting this year that could be playing now. Montana is a team UND should beat this year. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 USD wasn't ready financially. It is the smallest of the 4 Dakota schools. UND was in the middle of a lot of issues. The flood of 1997 caused a lot of problems that they were trying to get through. If you look back you can see that enrollment took a significant drop right after the flood and took a while to recover. The flood also caused questions about what kind of finances would be available for UND to pay for the move. Most people in Grand Forks were affected financially by the flood and it took a few years to find out what kind of resources might be available. Plus the athletic department was in the middle of opening both the Ralph and the Alerus Center. There wasn't a clear home conference for the sports. And there was a lot of doubts about the viability of all 4 schools moving up at the same time. Would there be enough athletes, especially in the region, to fill up rosters? Would there be enough fans and money to support the move? NDSU and SDSU were in a better position and they took the leap of faith. UND and USD took a little more time to get their ducks in a row. All of these are reasons. None of them are good reasons. The bottom line is that NDSU had the courage and foresight to get out of DII in 2002. UND did not. You can make up all the reasons in the world, but I believe Roger Thomas and Co. were unable to see that the Dakota schools could compete very favorably in Division I. Lack of vision on their part. NDSU is still feeling the benefits of its decision to move up earlier than UND. The truth of the matter is that both UND and NDSU should have made the move in 1978 when DI-AA was created, but that's a different discussion. Say what you want about Tom Bunning and his overall ineptitude, but at least he pushed Kupchella to make the jump when he did. I shutter to think of what might have been if UND didn't move up when it did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Too bad the entire NCC didn't stay in D2. Had that been the case D2 would not have become the watered down product that it is today. Thats why they left ....it was already watered down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have always found the reduction is scholarships as a lame excuse for the struggles that the Bison faced during their last decade in D2. If they were the only D2 school that had their scholarships reduced then of course it would be a valid excuse but the fact of the matter is that all D2 schools had their scholarships reduced. Everybody was playing by the same set of rules, so NDSU has nothing to cry about. UND had their scholarships reduced too and handled it just fine. Actually isn't it true there were many DII schools that were unable to fully fund their football scholarships - even within the NCC, while su was. It was when su had to play on a level playing field with the same amount of scholarships that they dropped back into mediorcrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I don't know how it is so, but consider the fact that they have not struggled to win games at the I-AA level the way they did for the better part of the last decade they spent in D2. It defies all logic, but for whatever reason it is what it is. Got a new coach. Was able to fund football properly again. Also, programs are cyclical. USC and Notre Dame aren't always good, they just tend to be. NDSU is similar(on a smaller scale of course). Too bad the entire NCC didn't stay in D2. Had that been the case D2 would not have become the watered down product that it is today. Yeah, too bad that the bigger schools in the NCC decided to make an investment and see a higher-quality product on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 What are you saying... that they can only dominate when the deck is stacked in their favor? The deck isn't stacked in NDSU's favor. Nor was it when NDSU was dominating. Other schools were playing the scholarship limit too and 'SU was still pounding on them. Once again, I point to the cycle of programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I beg to differ. The way I see it, it became watered down after they left... because they left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have always found the reduction is scholarships as a lame excuse for the struggles that the Bison faced during their last decade in D2. If they were the only D2 school that had their scholarships reduced then of course it would be a valid excuse but the fact of the matter is that all D2 schools had their scholarships reduced. Everybody was playing by the same set of rules, so NDSU has nothing to cry about. UND had their scholarships reduced too and handled it just fine. You are right that everyone had the same amount of scholorships reduced. But...... the teams that were better at the time of the reduction were hurt more because very good football players that wanted to play at the better fb programs could no longer get money to go there because the scholorships were fewer. Therefore they chose other schools to go to. UND got some of the players that might have gone to NDSU had they had scholorships available. It allowed UND and others to get back in the game. I will say that when there were more scholorships NDSU could make more mistakes when recruiting while they were having success. After the change UND did a better job getting the better players and it showed and ultimatley led to the demise of Rocky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I beg to differ. The way I see it, it became watered down after they left... because they left. So D2 needed NDSU to remain successful??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Agreed. It really is too bad the entire NCC couldn't go at the same time. Finally we agree on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Finally we agree on something. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well, not NDSU all by themselves but rather the package of all four Dakota schools (which of course includes NDSU). I think it turned out better for all of the Dakota schools getting out of D2. Any idiot can see that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Sounds like a lame excuse to me. If everybody had the same set of rules to play by there should be nothing to cry about. Wasn't an excuse in the comment norr any crying. Other than by you because the move up has been VERY VERY VERY successfull for NDSU. Too bad Davey the hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well, not NDSU all by themselves but rather the package of all four Dakota schools (which of course includes NDSU). They have it now in FCS so now this level can be successful and not watered down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Too bad the entire NCC didn't stay in D2. Had that been the case D2 would not have become the watered down product that it is today. Too bad the entire NCC didn't stay in D2. Had that been the case D2 would not have become the watered down product that it is today. Ndsu was already gone, but und could have stayed and kept the ncc fully intact. Und's move destroyed the ncc and the potential state rivalries in Bismarck and Minot from being realized. I think a petition by the state legislature should have been pursued to keep und from destroying the ncc, unnecessary spending, and keeping rivalries together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I beg to differ. The way I see it, it became watered down after they left... because they left. Things become watered down when too much is added to it, not taken away. Low budget NAIA schools moving into D2 caused it to get watered down. They contributed to a voting block which successfully decreased scholarships. To me, this situation revealed where the good coaches were in the NCC. After the reductions, the ac could no longer just out athlete people, they had to scheme...and Joe Glenn and Roger Thomas were just consistently better than Hager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ndsu was already gone, but und could have stayed and kept the ncc fully intact. Und's move destroyed the ncc and the potential state rivalries in Bismarck and Minot from being realized. I think a petition by the state legislature should have been pursued to keep und from destroying the ncc, unnecessary spending, and keeping rivalries together. We know how to get signatures for those petitions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 We know how to get signatures for those petitions. Kicking ass and taking signatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 They only way to win with DaveKay is to not respond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have always found the reduction is scholarships as a lame excuse for the struggles that the Bison faced during their last decade in D2. If they were the only D2 school that had their scholarships reduced then of course it would be a valid excuse but the fact of the matter is that all D2 schools had their scholarships reduced. Everybody was playing by the same set of rules, so NDSU has nothing to cry about. UND had their scholarships reduced too and handled it just fine. With a simple understanding of arithmetic it really isn't that hard to understand Dave. Someone will have to give specific numbers because I was too young to know what the scholarship limits actually were back then. For the sake of the argument assume that if someone is offered by NDSU they would accept, probably not that far from the truth back then. If everyone has 45 scholarships and they get reduced to 36, there are 9 quality players that in previous years would have been on NDSU's roster that are spread out among the other schools. Also, for the sake of the argument assume that all 9 of those guys that would have gone to NDSU if they had 9 more scholarships end up on the same roster at another school year after year. It would be similar to taking the last 9 guys to be offered a scholarship each year at UND and send them over to SUU or some other conference team. How happy would UND be to do that, especially if you ended up playing against them and they were damn good? College recruiting can be a crapshoot, so even though those 9 might have just missed the cut to get on NDSU's roster they may have turned out to be studs for the other teams. Do this for a few years and it isn't hard to see how this evens the playing field significantly. When I say even the playing field I don't mean in a fair play kind of good way, it evens it in the way that communism evens the playing field, by bringing the best back to the pack. This causes a watering down of the whole division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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