Bison06 Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 So if having a 7-4 record in 3 out of the last 7 years and just missing the playoffs in a major conference like the Big Sky is your definition of a cupcake what does that say for the bottom feeders of the SWAC, NEC, and MEAC teams that NDSU has hosted. Haha, who says things like 3 out of the last 7? Did you check who those 7 wins were against in 2011? Two DII teams on the schedule that year. So they didn't "just miss the playoffs". Robert Morris made the playoffs in 2010.
82SiouxGuy Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 You did that analysis based on what? You're simply not privy to sufficient information to draw any conclusions about NDSU's marketing strategy. All I know is what they're doing is working. Why would they change it? There is a difference between marketing strategy and finances. One of you said that NDSU would make more money paying big dollars for cupcakes every year than they would for having home and home with UND. Several of us have outlined how NDSU would make more money with UND on the schedule. Now you want to use marketing strategy as an excuse. Teeder pointed out that UND-NDSU rivalry games may be one of the easiest marketing strategies on the planet. The NDSU "marketing strategy" wouldn't be disturbed at all, other than possibly losing 1 home game every 4 years. And as we have pointed out multiple times, they would make more money with this new strategy. It comes down to hurt feelings in the NDSU athletic department. That is the only real reason, the rest are excuses. And I don't need to know the NDSU marketing strategy details to figure that out. 1
The Sicatoka Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 ... NDSU's marketing strategy. Does it involve not playing UND to prevent the possibility of an NDSU loss to UND (and the "emperor has no clothes" dialog that would follow)?
Gothmog Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 I don't disagree with you about not having enough information, and we can quibble all day long about what we do and don't know, but seriously, what the hell does a school's "marketing strategy" have to do with anything? Bottom lines are bottom lines (and yes we are not privy to the info) irrespective of market strategies. That just comes across as a red herring assertion that has little to do with hard number crunching and what will make more money for a host team. Man, that makes no sense at all. Decisions such as: who to schedule, how many home games you want, whether to play a local rival or pay an outstate team to come to town are all part of a school's football marketing strategy. The posts I was responding to both claimed that the poster had demonstrated that NDSU could/would make more money by scheduling UND. Since that would requiree a change in NDSU stated strategy of always scheduling 6 home games, it would clearly be a change in the way they sell their football program to their fans. I call that a marketing strategy. What do you call it? Red herring? Not at all.
darell1976 Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Haha, who says things like 3 out of the last 7? Did you check who those 7 wins were against in 2011? Two DII teams on the schedule that year. So they didn't "just miss the playoffs". Robert Morris made the playoffs in 2010. So St.Francis, Wagner, PV, Morgan St are the same as Portland State...wow. 1
WeAreNorthDakota Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 You did that analysis based on what? You're simply not privy to sufficient information to draw any conclusions about NDSU's marketing strategy. All I know is what they're doing is working. Why would they change it? BECAUSE IT CAN BE BETTER! NDSU currently has a really solid conference schedule that their fans get into and can now relate pretty well to. They play winnable FBS games within reasonable driving distance. They saw a great atmosphere and a sold out Dome in the playoffs last year. If the teams played every year, Fargo and Grand Forks would be hosting one of the biggest OOC FCS games EVERY YEAR! If NDSU wants to further establish itself as a premier FCS football program why not bring the national FCS spotlight to town every year at a time when most teams are getting stomped by the big boys or playing cupcakes and non-D1s. There are no negatives to playing the game. There are only financial washes, excuses, and an almost decade-old grudge.
Gothmog Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 There is a difference between marketing strategy and finances. One of you said that NDSU would make more money paying big dollars for cupcakes every year than they would for having home and home with UND. Several of us have outlined how NDSU would make more money with UND on the schedule. Now you want to use marketing strategy as an excuse. Teeder pointed out that UND-NDSU rivalry games may be one of the easiest marketing strategies on the planet. The NDSU "marketing strategy" wouldn't be disturbed at all, other than possibly losing 1 home game every 4 years. And as we have pointed out multiple times, they would make more money with this new strategy. It comes down to hurt feelings in the NDSU athletic department. That is the only real reason, the rest are excuses. And I don't need to know the NDSU marketing strategy details to figure that out. No, you're wrong. A marketing startegy is what drives finances. NDSU could not schedule UND without a change to its marketing strategy. As I said before, part of this about hurt feelings. But you are dead wrong about this not involving NDSU's marketing strategy. It's all, ultimately about the way they sell their program to their fans..that's called a marketing startegy.
Gothmog Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 BECAUSE IT CAN BE BETTER! NDSU currently has a really solid conference schedule that their fans get into and can now relate pretty well to. They play winnable FBS games within reasonable driving distance. They saw a great atmosphere and a sold out Dome in the playoffs last year. If the teams played every year, Fargo and Grand Forks would be hosting one of the biggest OOC FCS games EVERY YEAR! If NDSU wants to further establish itself as a premier FCS football program why not bring the national FCS spotlight to town every year at a time when most teams are getting stomped by the big boys or playing cupcakes and non-D1s. There are no negatives to playing the game. There are only financial washes, excuses, and an almost decade-old grudge. Those are your opinions. Have you actually spoken to NDSU season ticket holders and donors? Have you done any surveys to determine what ticket sales and donations would be if NDSU scheduled UND? Do you have any knowledge of NDSU's cost and revenue structure? Do you really have any idea at all whether what you're saying is really true?
geaux_sioux Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Sooo..... anyone tired of pounding their head into a brick wall expecting a logical response?
Teeder11 Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Sooo..... anyone tired of pounding their head into a brick wall expecting a logical response? Me.
Gothmog Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Sooo..... anyone tired of pounding their head into a brick wall expecting a logical response? The problem is you, and others on this site, are the brick wall.
WeAreNorthDakota Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Man, that makes no sense at all. Decisions such as: who to schedule, how many home games you want, whether to play a local rival or pay an outstate team to come to town are all part of a school's football marketing strategy. The posts I was responding to both claimed that the poster had demonstrated that NDSU could/would make more money by scheduling UND. Since that would requiree a change in NDSU stated strategy of always scheduling 6 home games, it would clearly be a change in the way they sell their football program to their fans. I call that a marketing strategy. What do you call it? Red herring? Not at all. A rivalry like UND-NDSU is a marketer's dream! Not only do you sell out every seat in the house in about 10 minutes, it presents endless oppotunities for exposure, sponsorship, and special events. You want 6 home games? Don't schedule Colorado State and Ball State every other year. If you're only looking for half the FBS games it allows you to schedule games with programs that will genuinely excite the fanbase like Minnesota, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State. You play at UND one year, you play at a regional BCS big shot the next year and repeat. Plus, sacrificing a home game only displaces 19,000 fans every other year while 20x that would be watching the game in the Alerus statewide. You can fall back on the "If it's not broke don't fix it" cliche if you want. But the golden goose of marketing and revenue potential is sitting 75 miles up the road and Gene Taylor is doing nothing about it due to a pathetic grudge with someone who's no longer with the program.
geaux_sioux Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Sooo..... anyone tired of pounding their head into a brick wall expecting a logical response?
Bison06 Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 So St.Francis, Wagner, PV, Morgan St are the same as Portland State...wow. How is Portland State better? Because they come from a good conference? So what, they have been a bottom dweller in the Big Sky forever. We could go around on this all day. Bottom line, people in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks, UND is in a glass house when it comes to OOC scheduling. So is NDSU btw.
Matt Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Sooo..... anyone tired of pounding their head into a brick wall expecting a logical response? I understand neither the und fans' chiding of a national champion, nor the ndsu fans' defensiveness about it.
Hayduke Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Sooo..... anyone tired of pounding their head into a brick wall expecting a logical response? It's not just Lakes. I think they ALL drink just to get drunk.
Gothmog Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 A rivalry like UND-NDSU is a marketer's dream! Not only do you sell out every seat in the house in about 10 minutes, it presents endless oppotunities for exposure, sponsorship, and special events. You want 6 home games? Don't schedule Colorado State and Ball State every other year. If you're only looking for half the FBS games it allows you to schedule games with programs that will genuinely excite the fanbase like Minnesota, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State. You play at UND one year, you play at a regional BCS big shot the next year and repeat. Plus, sacrificing a home game only displaces 19,000 fans every other year while 20x that would be watching the game in the Alerus statewide. You can fall back on the "If it's not broke don't fix it" cliche if you want. But the golden goose of marketing and revenue potential is sitting 75 miles up the road and Gene Taylor is doing nothing about it due to a pathetic grudge with someone who's no longer with the program. No, the marketer's dream happened in Dallas last January. NDSU ticket sales are higher and donations stronger than they ever were when the rivalry was on-going. NDSU v UND is one game out of 11. NDSU is looking for more than that.
WeAreNorthDakota Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Those are your opinions. Have you actually spoken to NDSU season ticket holders and donors? Have you done any surveys to determine what ticket sales and donations would be if NDSU scheduled UND? Do you have any knowledge of NDSU's cost and revenue structure? Do you really have any idea at all whether what you're saying is really true? Do I have specific knowledge of NDSU's numbers? No. But I do have a degree in marketing with a minor in sports business and experience working in a collegiate athletic department. I'm not just pulling numbers and theories out of my ass.
SIOUXFAN97 Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 once gene taylor gets a call from his alma mater we can finally get this game going again...pretty sure geno was always the last kid picked for sporting events growing up and has never gotten over it? btw who is taller geno or kolpack?
Teeder11 Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Do I have specific knowledge of NDSU's numbers? No. But I do have a degree in marketing with a minor in sports business and experience working in a collegiate athletic department. I'm not just pulling numbers and theories out of my ass. Well then you'd be the only one not doing that in your conversation. No, the marketer's dream happened in Dallas last January. NDSU ticket sales are higher and donations stronger than they ever were when the rivalry was on-going. NDSU v UND is one game out of 11. NDSU is looking for more than that. That's a good strategy, too. But, sadly, kind of hard to do consistently year after year ( we at UND should know ). How about a true "marketing strategy" (not a a financial strategy -- two completely different things) that utilizes both playing your biggest -- by far -- OOC FCS rival and paving a path to the playoffs and an NC. They don't have to be mutually exclusive of each other. Best of all worlds!
geaux_sioux Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Do we play NDSU in the sectional debate semi this Saturday? 1
Teeder11 Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Do we play NDSU in the sectional debate semi this Saturday? Doesn't seem like Sac State message board thinks there's a game this weekend either, by the number of posts and posters.
geaux_sioux Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 No but this isn't the thread for that sort of chat. Doesn't seem like Sac State message board thinks there's a game this weekend either, by the number of posts and posters. This thread should be put to bed. Nothing will ever come from this 'discussion' other than hot air and spittle. Even MSNBC CNN and Fox News would think that this 'discussion' is ridiculous. I'm just saying there is alot of wasted time on something that is going nowhere just as fast now as if nobody were talking about it.
82SiouxGuy Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 No, you're wrong. A marketing startegy is what drives finances. NDSU could not schedule UND without a change to its marketing strategy. As I said before, part of this about hurt feelings. But you are dead wrong about this not involving NDSU's marketing strategy. It's all, ultimately about the way they sell their program to their fans..that's called a marketing startegy. Which marketing strategy are you talking about? Playing cupcakes? Your marketing strategy is a straw man argument. Do you think that winning the national championship every year is a marketing strategy? This is about hurt feelings and nothing more. Winning the national championship is a great marketing tool, but it doesn't work every year. Having a rivalry series does work every year.
Teeder11 Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 This thread should be put to bed. Nothing will ever come from this 'discussion' other than hot air and spittle. Even MSNBC CNN and Fox News would think that this 'discussion' is ridiculous. I'm just saying there is alot of wasted time on something that is going nowhere just as fast now as if nobody were talking about it. It passes the time as I sit home with 3 sick kids on a Friday afternoon. Sometimes the Internets can be nothing more than a mindless amusement. So I am not making it more serious than it is. By calling for a thread to be shut down, makes it seem more serious and is a true Bisonville move that happens when the propaganda police can't control things any longer.
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