House Bill Passes Senate 28-15

[CAS4127]

The question wouldn't be put on the ballot until the next general election in November 2012. You can find the text of the bill here: http://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/62-2011/documents/11-3095-01000.pdf

The info about the date is on line 16. Also, the constitutional change would not go into effect until January 1. 2015. This info is in section 6 at the end of the bill.

OK, so the SBoHE would have standing to challenge the contitutionality of this bill until Jan1, 2015, but really is a lame duck as of November 2012 if the bill passes in that election.

Here's kinda a repost of an earlier post of mine just to get these "discussion" points back on the table and easy to review.

I reviewed the settlement agreement and judgment documents from the NCAA lawsuit. Here's a couple of interesting tidbits. First, the Plaintiff (that's the person or entity who brings a lawsuit) is, and I quote, "State of North Dakota by and through the SBoHE and the University of ND". You catch that? The State of North Dakota was the plaintiff, not the SBoHE or UND. Also, an anti-trust claim was asserted, along with breach of contract, etc., and ALL claims that were or could have been asserted in the lawsuit were DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE. Technically, that means the same claims, or even claims that weren't asserted on the same issue can not be brought EVER again, by the Plaintiff involved in that lawsuit.

As for the SBoHE, that is CONSTITUTIONALLY CREATED by Section 6 of Article VIII of the ND Constitution, which, at least the last time I checked, was still in existence. Section 6 provides that the SBoHE was created, and I quote again, "for control and administration of [ND colleges and Universities]", including UND. Also, there is nothing in the Constitution that allows the ND legislature to control the constitutionally created entity that is the SBoHE.

So, let's do a little math. First, we know that laws that are unconstitutional are not enforceable. We also know that the SBoHE is a constitutionally created entity (see above) and that it, and only it (at least at this juncture), has the constitutional power and authority to control UND (again, see above please). We also know that the ND legislature has no power or authority to control the SBoHE. Also, and lastly on the equation, the bill is telling the SBoHE AND UND what they can and/or can not do. The bill also tells the AG to consider bringing an anti-trust lawsuit against the NCAA, which as already been done.

What may become interesting is the language of the Stipulation for Dismissal in the prior lawsuit that say all claims asserted or that could have been asserted in that lawsuit are dismissed with prejudice.

HERE WE GO!

Just think, tho, at least ND isn't Wisconsin and having a fight between the govenator and state employees--things could be worse!!

[mksioux]

OK, so the SBoHE would have standing to challenge the contitutionality of this bill until Jan1, 2015, but really is a lame duck as of November 2012 if the bill passes in that election.

Here's kinda a repost of an earlier post of mine just to get these "discussion" points back on the table and easy to review.

I reviewed the settlement agreement and judgment documents from the NCAA lawsuit. Here's a couple of interesting tidbits. First, the Plaintiff (that's the person or entity who brings a lawsuit) is, and I quote, "State of North Dakota by and through the SBoHE and the University of ND". You catch that? The State of North Dakota was the plaintiff, not the SBoHE or UND. Also, an anti-trust claim was asserted, along with breach of contract, etc., and ALL claims that were or could have been asserted in the lawsuit were DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE. Technically, that means the same claims, or even claims that weren't asserted on the same issue can not be brought EVER again, by the Plaintiff involved in that lawsuit.

As for the SBoHE, that is CONSTITUTIONALLY CREATED by Section 6 of Article VIII of the ND Constitution, which, at least the last time I checked, was still in existence. Section 6 provides that the SBoHE was created, and I quote again, "for control and administration of [ND colleges and Universities]", including UND. Also, there is nothing in the Constitution that allows the ND legislature to control the constitutionally created entity that is the SBoHE.

So, let's do a little math. First, we know that laws that are unconstitutional are not enforceable. We also know that the SBoHE is a constitutionally created entity (see above) and that it, and only it (at least at this juncture), has the constitutional power and authority to control UND (again, see above please). We also know that the ND legislature has no power or authority to control the SBoHE. Also, and lastly on the equation, the bill is telling the SBoHE AND UND what they can and/or can not do. The bill also tells the AG to consider bringing an anti-trust lawsuit against the NCAA, which as already been done.

What may become interesting is the language of the Stipulation for Dismissal in the prior lawsuit that say all claims asserted or that could have been asserted in that lawsuit are dismissed with prejudice.

HERE WE GO!

Just think, tho, at least ND isn't Wisconsin and having a fight between the govenator and state employees--things could be worse!!

No offense, but these are the issues we've been debating the past several weeks. Yes, there is a constitutional question with this new law. And yes, there are problems with a new lawsuit against the NCAA.

But for today, screw it. I'm happy with the vote.

[ScottM]

I know next to nothing about IP Law. If someone knows something about it and sees a path toward successful litigation, please share.

Considering the NC$$ generally controls the IP licensing for its member schools, I'm still trying to figure that one out ...

[star2city]

North Dakota, the only area in the country that doesn't bow to Political Correctness Zealots, Take that Ron His Horse Is Thunder, Robert Kelley, Brian Faison, Jesse Taken Alive, Max Schneider and the

rest of you nay sayers. Majority rules, Fighting Sioux forever.

The unintended consequences of this are going to be far more reaching than nickname opponents realize: the Sioux logo has become a state icon and will become the main identifier of ND throughout the nation.

The ramifications culturally are almost as significant as what happened economically in Wisconsin yesterday.

The Spirit of the Spirit Lake people prevailed today. Justice has and will continue to prevail.

[darell1976]

Not trying to fan the flame but I have a few questions:

1. This does not require the AG to sioux the NCAA. What happens if the AG refuses to do this.

2. If the AG did sue the NCAA, what happens if when the AG loses the lawsuit (like before)

Is it possible that this vote will keep the nickname but in return UND loses all home playoff games from here on out?

Or face other sanctions by the NCAA. Like bannishment from the NCAA or longer transition, or other crap they can think of.

Is there any chance of some deal between the state and the NCAA so this does NOT go to court. We did get 1 tribal approval.

[star2city]

Considering the NC$$ generally controls the IP licensing for its member schools, I'm still trying to figure that one out ...

The NCAA has nothing to do with IP licensing of its member schools. The NCAA does however believe it can control the content of IP at its own tournaments.

Collegiate Licensing (a corporation) and other licensing companies distribute member schools IP to vendors and apportion royalties, not the NCAA itself. For t-shirt sales at NCAA tournaments, the NCAA has to license those symbols from those IP corporations.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/196451/

The Governor intends to sign it.

[PhillySioux]

Before the Senate vote, Dalrymple said that he would have Drew Wrigley research the ramifications of the legislation if passed. I wonder if we will here about Mr. Wrigley's "findings"

[mksioux]

Or face other sanctions by the NCAA. Like bannishment from the NCAA or longer transition, or other crap they can think of.

Is there any chance of some deal between the state and the NCAA so this does NOT go to court. We did get 1 tribal approval.

Please don't perpetuate the idea of UND getting kicked out of the NCAA. That simply is not going to happen.

[Predator]

Or face other sanctions by the NCAA. Like bannishment from the NCAA or longer transition, or other crap they can think of.

Is there any chance of some deal between the state and the NCAA so this does NOT go to court. We did get 1 tribal approval.

This is the way i have looked at this bill all along. just another " bullet in the magazine " to increase chance of a deal.

[mksioux]

Before the Senate vote, Dalrymple said that he would have Drew Wrigley research the ramifications of the legislation if passed. I wonder if we will here about Mr. Wrigley's "findings"

I too am very interested in that. The fact that the Governor said that, and is now going to sign the bill into law is one reason I have hope there might be a path toward successful resolution.

[FargoBison]

Or face other sanctions by the NCAA. Like bannishment from the NCAA or longer transition, or other crap they can think of.

Is there any chance of some deal between the state and the NCAA so this does NOT go to court. We did get 1 tribal approval.

Pretty sure the NCAA will just put UND on the hostile abusive list, use the sanctions already talked about and say you knew this was going to happen to you if you broke the settlement agreement.

I think if they went beyond that they could give UND an avenue in which to sue, right now I don't think another lawsuit will go anywhere if the NCAA just does what they said they were going to do.

[darell1976]

Before the Senate vote, Dalrymple said that he would have Drew Wrigley research the ramifications of the legislation if passed. I wonder if we will here about Mr. Wrigley's "findings"

Maybe he can take this instead of Stenjum that way we (state, UND, and the nickname) win.

[CMSioux]

Wow there is going to be a lot of egg on the faces of the doom and gloomers - the NCAA will work this out with UND, if Florida State can keep the Seminoles and Illinois can keep the Illinil, they will find a way to accept the Fighting Sioux

If not hosting is the biggest issues I can live with that - there are some schools that hadn't hosted hosted a play off game in 20 years - does that mean they were on double secret probation?

[dakotadan]

North Dakota, the only area in the country that doesn't bow to Political Correctness Zealots, Take that Ron His Horse Is Thunder, Robert Kelley, Brian Faison, Jesse Taken Alive, Max Schneider and the

rest of you nay sayers. Majority rules, Fighting Sioux forever.

[Siouxbooster#33]

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

The first rule of boxing is to not get knocked out of the ring. If you stay in the ring, you can land punches. If you can land punches, you can win. Our name is for today saved. The anti-name forces will doubtlessly be regrouping. Today's vote was the first victory for pro-name supporters in many years, and it feels wonderful to be heard. But the battle is only now fully enjoined. Today, we gained equal footing in the boxing ring. Today, we saved our right to fight.

In the weeks and months to come, we must remember that just a few short hours ago, this whole issue was in doubt. Just a few short hours ago, we who support the name came within a paper-thin margain of losing our last hope. Our UND President referred to the Fighting Sioux name legislation as a "Speed Bump" heading toward the August 15 retirement. Our AD testified twice before the Legislature preaching doom and disaster if the name was retained. Three Senators from Grand Forks voted against the name -- and these Senators represent a small but incredibly vocal minority who likely passionately oppose the name now more than ever. Our SBOHE leadership were spinning their own web of anti-name rhetoric. These people aren't going anywhere, and I can assure you that their opinions on this matter are unchanged. The Herald, Tribune, and the Forum are locked-armed against the name -- and at times each publication pulled out tricks and slights of journalistic slander and unethical journalistic abuse in an ad hoc and desperate effort to derail this legislation. The Herald is not suddenly going to replace Omdahl, Dennis, Jacobs, et al.

In short: I give you another warrior's quote -- Caesar (allegedly): "Celebrate today, but sharpen your swords for tomorrow."

[star2city]

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

The first rule of boxing is not get knocked out of the ring. If you stay in the ring, you can land punches. If you can land punches, you can win. Our name is for today saved. The anti-name forces will doubtlessly be regrouping. Today's vote was the first victory for pro-name supporters in many years, and it feels wonderful to be heard. But the battle is only now fully enjoined. Today, we gained equal footing in the boxing ring. Today, we saved our right to fight.

In the weeks and months to come, we must remember that just a few short hours ago, this whole issue was in doubt. Just a few short hours ago, we who support the name came within a paper-thin margain of losing our last hope. Our UND President referred to the Fighting Sioux name legislation as a "Speed Bump" heading toward the August 15 retirement. Our AD testified twice before the Legislature preaching doom and disaster if the name was retained. Three Senators from Grand Forks voted against the name -- and these Senators represent a small but incredibly vocal minority who likely passionately oppose the name now more than ever. Our SBOHE leadership were spinning their own web of anti-name rhetoric. These people aren't going anywhere, and I can assure you that their opinions on this matter are unchanged. The Herald, Tribune, and the Forum are locked-armed against the name -- and at times each publication pulled out tricks and slights of journalistic slander and unethical journalistic abuse in an ad hoc and desperate effort to derail this legislation. The Herald is not suddenly going to replace Omdahl, Dennis, Jacobs, et al.

In short: I give you another warrior's quote -- Caesar (allegedly): "Celebrate today, but sharpen your swords for tomorrow."

Beautifully written!!

"Divisive" issues - faith vs atheism, moral vs immoral, tradition vs modernism - have always been part of the human existence. Too bad the supposedly intellectuals among us (Jacobs, Kelley, Haga, Omdahl, etc) can't grasp that. They just can't separate current events from their emotional glory days of the 1960's. The 1960's generation has been dethroned, and their responses won't be pleasant.

Would love to see the professors from UND march on the capitol and shut down the proceedings.

[darell1976]

If this becomes a law which seems like it will once the gov signs it...what will it take to overturn it? A vote of the people?

[NDSUguy]

Wow there is going to be a lot of egg on the faces of the doom and gloomers - the NCAA will work this out with UND, if Florida State can keep the Seminoles and Illinois can keep the Illinil, they will find a way to accept the Fighting Sioux

If not hosting is the biggest issues I can live with that - there are some schools that hadn't hosted hosted a play off game in 20 years - does that mean they were on double secret probation?

Wow... no playoff games for 20 years.... original. nice work.

I'm still confused as to why the NCAA would change their stance. It's their organization and in the end they can do whatever they want with it.

I'm no UND supporter but I just don't see this working out well for the athletic department. I think that this may work out well for those who want the nickname and logo however is UND being on the NCAA naughty list worth it?

Also, if/when there is a lawsuit, i sure hope that this is funded privately and not by general funds. The NCAA has deep pockets.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Or face other sanctions by the NCAA. Like bannishment from the NCAA or longer transition, or other crap they can think of.

Is there any chance of some deal between the state and the NCAA so this does NOT go to court. We did get 1 tribal approval.

I think this path proposed by Daryl would be the path of least resistance and cost between ND and the NCAA...Let's hope common sense comes into play between the two parties and the NCAA lets this die with the consideration of one band of the tribe getting approval and it happens to be the only one contained within the state boundaries and is the closest representative of the namesake. Lastly, I am proud to be a stubborn North Dakotan today and I think many other people will be as well!

BobIwabuchiFan

[LB#11]

Between the House & Senate you have a 93-43 vote total...that says it all. I'm very proud of our State, we didn't bow down to political correctness...unbelieveable.

[darell1976]

Between the House & Senate you have a 93-43 vote total...that says it all. I'm very proud of our State, we didn't bow down to political correctness...unbelieveable.

How many other fans are thinking their legislature should have done this to save their nickname.

[Blackburn87]

Wow... just wow!!!

I agree with Siouxbooster#33- celebrate today (I sure am ) but dig in for the next round.

Proud to say I'm from North Dakota. They didn't let me down!

[LB#11]

I'm no UND supporter

Really

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Wow... no playoff games for 20 years.... original. nice work.

I'm still confused as to why the NCAA would change their stance. It's their organization and in the end they can do whatever they want with it.

I'm no UND supporter but I just don't see this working out well for the athletic department. I think that this may work out well for those who want the nickname and logo however is UND being on the NCAA naughty list worth it?

Also, if/when there is a lawsuit, i sure hope that this is funded privately and not by general funds. The NCAA has deep pockets.

I think the NCAA has better things to do than continue to battle with ND, especially when they are not lying down on the issue. Additionally, I think the NCAA knows they can have ultimate victory if they want to, but given the results of today's vote in ND it would border on Pyrrhic if anything. My 2 cents...