Sioux in the NCAA Tournament

[rjjockers]

I was hoping someone with far more hockey knowledge than me could answer some questions. This in no way is meant to be negative, it is just hard for me to understand not being someone who has been around hockey my whole life.

Why is our team completely different when they go the NCAA tournament? Is it coaching? Player preparation?

We for sure have had some great moments in the regular season under Hak and have seen them personally, but the post season is a different story. Is it lack of familiarity with the teams schemes or just the style of play?

Again, just trying to understand the game better. Thanks!

[sagard]

One of the major differences is the officiating. The Sioux seem to do well when they play with their usual WCHA style and take their share of penalties. This game they didn't even attempt to intimidate Yale. It almost seemed like they just wanted to stay out of the box. After watching their superior play vs. the Gophers then at the Final Five, I was shocked at how they came out. Same thing the last couple of years.

[passit_offthegoalie]

One of the major differences is the officiating. The Sioux seem to do well when they play with their usual WCHA style and take their share of penalties. This game they didn't even attempt to intimidate Yale. It almost seemed like they just wanted to stay out of the box. After watching their superior play vs. the Gophers then at the Final Five, I was shocked at how they came out. Same thing the last couple of years.

They didn't have their legs until the 3rd period, it seemed.

They need to get a #1 seed and set themselves up better for the post-season push, next year.

[krangodance]

I was hoping someone with far more hockey knowledge than me could answer some questions. This in no way is meant to be negative, it is just hard for me to understand not being someone who has been around hockey my whole life.

Why is our team completely different when they go the NCAA tournament? Is it coaching? Player preparation?

We for sure have had some great moments in the regular season under Hak and have seen them personally, but the post season is a different story. Is it lack of familiarity with the teams schemes or just the style of play?

Again, just trying to understand the game better. Thanks!

9-7 ncaa tournament record under hakstol. that's obviously not what we, as fans, want, but it's it's a good start to a career.

the competition in the regular season varies from week to week whereas the ncaa tournament tends to be the best teams in the country. i'd say a 9-7 ncaa tournamnet record is on par with our regular season performance in that time given the heightened level of talented opponents in the tournament vs regular season.

[rjjockers]

One of the major differences is the officiating. The Sioux seem to do well when they play with their usual WCHA style and take their share of penalties. This game they didn't even attempt to intimidate Yale. It almost seemed like they just wanted to stay out of the box. After watching their superior play vs. the Gophers then at the Final Five, I was shocked at how they came out. Same thing the last couple of years.

Hopefully this gets some attention and the proper people in the program can address it, whatever that will entail.

[rjjockers]

9-7 ncaa tournament record under hakstol. that's obviously not what we, as fans, want, but it's it's a good start to a career.

the competition in the regular season varies from week to week whereas the ncaa tournament tends to be the best teams in the country. i'd say a 9-7 ncaa tournamnet record is on par with our regular season performance in that time given the heightened level of talented opponents in the tournament vs regular season.

If we are a national level team, shouldn't we be able to overcome that?

[808287]

One of the major differences is the officiating. The Sioux seem to do well when they play with their usual WCHA style and take their share of penalties. This game they didn't even attempt to intimidate Yale. It almost seemed like they just wanted to stay out of the box. After watching their superior play vs. the Gophers then at the Final Five, I was shocked at how they came out. Same thing the last couple of years.

There was an officials meeting with team captains on the ice after the first period. It was likely intended to keep the level of physical play down. If the ref's threatened five minute major's, that would take away the physical advantage right there.

Not saying the threat happened like that, but the conversation was had, for sure.

[rjjockers]

There was an officials meeting with team captains on the ice after the first period. It was likely intended to keep the level of physical play down. If the ref's threatened five minute major's, that would take away the physical advantage right there.

Not saying the threat happened like that, but the conversation was had, for sure.

If that is the case, then it is sad to see refs doing that. It seems to take away from the game.

[rochsioux]

9-7 ncaa tournament record under hakstol. that's obviously not what we, as fans, want, but it's it's a good start to a career.

the competition in the regular season varies from week to week whereas the ncaa tournament tends to be the best teams in the country. i'd say a 9-7 ncaa tournamnet record is on par with our regular season performance in that time given the heightened level of talented opponents in the tournament vs regular season.

How do you come up with a 9-7 record when Hak has only coached 6 years. The most any coach could lose in 6 tourny appearances is 6 games...unless you counted todays as 2 games. If so, I have no problem with that as it was worth as least 2 losses.

[ihatethegophers]

Yeah, I count 9-6, won the regional 4 times and one semifinal game and lost in the first round the past 2 years.

[farce poobah]

The WCHA playoff system needs a revamp.

Needs to go the way the CCHA has, with essentially a rest week for the top 4 seeds during the first round of playoffs.

Its no coincidence that their NCAA success changed when they gave their teams a little rest.

This six games in 9 days crap - THEN try to play the most important games of the season - has to end.

[mikejm]

This six games in 9 days crap - THEN try to play the most important games of the season - has to end.

If the Sioux hadn't let the Gophers take it to them and win Saturday's game, it would've been five games.

And if the Sioux hadn't taken December off (or January, I lost track), they'd have finished in the top two of the league and not had to play the Thursday night game in St. Paul.

So that's only four games.

They put themselves in the position to have to play 6 in 9. The WCHA didn't.

This team played great down the stretch, but they are what they are. I've thought for several months that this is a team that is a year away. I've said that here many times. It is tough to see them play so poorly for 40 minutes in a big game, but they went out with both guns blazing.

I am really looking forward to seeing this bunch put together a complete season in '10-11.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

This is absolutely not an attempt at an excuse...but:

how hard is it for teams like UND to play in the NCAA regionals in front of crowds of 1,000-7,000 people, when they are used to rabid followings at home at the Ralph (11,500), and at the WCHA Final Five (13,000-19,000)

Is this a factor? I'm not sure. I am always upset by the atmosphere, or lack thereof, at NCAA regionals, and even the Frozen Four.

Again, absolutely not looking for excuses here, but what are your thoughts on this variable?

[siouxweet]

If the Sioux hadn't let the Gophers take it to them and win Saturday's game, it would've been five games.

And if the Sioux hadn't taken December off (or January, I lost track), they'd have finished in the top two of the league and not had to play the Thursday night game in St. Paul.

So that's only four games.

They put themselves in the position to have to play 6 in 9. The WCHA didn't.

This team played great down the stretch, but they are what they are. I've thought for several months that this is a team that is a year away. I've said that here many times. It is tough to see them play so poorly for 40 minutes in a big game, but they went out with both guns blazing.

I am really looking forward to seeing this bunch put together a complete season in '10-11.

yes and that fateful sat night in duluth was a very big reason why they were in a position to have to play 6 games in nine days.

[WCHA-FAN]

If that is the case, then it is sad to see refs doing that. It seems to take away from the game.

Are you then insinuating that the officials are the cause of the loss? I think the only reason the officials had that convo with the captains was because of the incident at the 11:10 mark. The Yale player was refraining from touching the puck as long as possible to kill of some PK time and then you had 17 for UND hit him with the cross check. Then the coincidental unsportsmanlike penalties. I doubt that any "manipulation" of the game happened, just a simple knock off the after the whistle or we will take both guys. The officials will never try to take away from the physical aspect of the game as it pertains to the play between the whistles. After all hockey is a contact sport. As for the 5-minute majors idea, that's completely ludacris.

[808287]

Are you then insinuating that the officials are the cause of the loss? I think the only reason the officials had that convo with the captains was because of the incident at the 11:10 mark. The Yale player was refraining from touching the puck as long as possible to kill of some PK time and then you had 17 for UND hit him with the cross check. Then the coincidental unsportsmanlike penalties. I doubt that any "manipulation" of the game happened, just a simple knock off the after the whistle or we will take both guys. The officials will never try to take away from the physical aspect of the game as it pertains to the play between the whistles. After all hockey is a contact sport. As for the 5-minute majors idea, that's completely ludacris.

Feel free to explain the lower tone of physical play after that period break. I openly stated that my comments were supposition. Since none of us were privy to the conversation, all we can do is guess. And my guess is that *something* was said that directed the tone of physical play downward.

[WCHA-FAN]

Feel free to explain the lower tone of physical play after that period break. I openly stated that my comments were supposition. Since none of us were privy to the conversation, all we can do is guess. And my guess is that *something* was said that directed the tone of physical play downward.

As an official (no not WCHA Official) I don't think that Brian Hill nor Steve McInchak or any other official for that matter would have threatened a 5-min. major for physical play. There were only 4 more penalties called after the 1st period. I think their concern was that guys were "finishing" checks after the puck was long gone. That to me is probably more what that conversation was about. After the 1st I thought the physical play was still there but the "finishing" of checks was contained more to those hits that were just after or as the player was getting rid of the puck. The thing that people have to remember is that the WCHA is the most physical conference and the officials allow a lot more physical play which when the NCAA's come around isn't allowed because they get non-WCHA officals that tend to call a tighter game. Thats what this game was a tightly called game for the first period and adjustment in the 2nd and 3rd. Part of the what I think was maybe some of the percived less physical of the game was the fact that UND had to change their game because Yale was hitting all their passes and out skating UND.

[Goon]

I've thought for several months that this is a team that is a year away. I am really looking forward to seeing this bunch put together a complete season in '10-11.

Mike I think you're right this team really was young and it's a year away from making a move. Everything the Sioux accomplished this season was gravy.

Losing sucks and I am going to miss Zajac and Vandy they are both good players.

[Big A HG]

I think the biggest differences are as follows:

-It's a do or die situation against an unfamiliar opponent in an unfamiliar location

-------Look at the last part of the season. It was against teams we've all seen plenty, in places they've all been to (minus a couple away games for the freshies). Until Yale. Same situation as last year when it was UNH.

-Using the refs is a bit of an excuse. UND should still be able to dictate play. But, Yale is a much better team that most will give credit to, just because of the conference they play in.

-Back to the do-or-die situation. The last couple of years, all the pressure was on us. The team knows they will go home if they lose, in a game where they know they should win. It comes down to, in my opinion, gripping the stick too tight and overthinking a lot of situations instead of just playing their game.

-Two completely different game-styles collided, and one has to give. Our style has been proven to be ineffective against most Eastern teams the last few years, and that includes most regular season games.

[wsdSIOUXfalls]

This is absolutely not an attempt at an excuse...but:

how hard is it for teams like UND to play in the NCAA regionals in front of crowds of 1,000-7,000 people, when they are used to rabid followings at home at the Ralph (11,500), and at the WCHA Final Five (13,000-19,000)

Is this a factor? I'm not sure. I am always upset by the atmosphere, or lack thereof, at NCAA regionals, and even the Frozen Four.

Again, absolutely not looking for excuses here, but what are your thoughts on this variable?

I definitely think hearing crowd support can affect players - especially teams that are used to it both at home and on the road! Several times during yesterday's game, I had fleeting thoughts of wishing our team could hear familiar Sioux chants from the crowd to fire them up. Announcers rightly made an issue of UND having some of the best loyal fans in the country, and I believe if we played at this level anyplace within one looong days drive, we could have had enough fans there to rock the place! Thanks to those who were able to attend, and cheered their lungs out!

[Goon]

Hopefully this gets some attention and the proper people in the program can address it, whatever that will entail.

What do you suggest the alum and the university do? Should they fire hak? I don't think we can really get all that excited, this was a young team that over achieved in my opinion. They ran out of gas at the wrong time. If anything it will motivate the guys to not have to play in the Thursday night games next season.

[mikejm]

I thought I read somewhere in this thread (but I can't find it now) someone harping on the Sioux's lack of success out East. I was almost going to agree with the point until the OCD voice in my head told me to research things. I went back as far as 1999 (cause I'm too lazy to go farther) and was surprised by the overwhelming success UND has had on the East Coast.

1999-2000

Fri Oct 29 at Clarkson NC W 4- 1

Sat Oct 30 at Clarkson NC W 6- 5

Sat Nov 27 vs Vermont NC W 8- 0

Sun Nov 28 at New Hampshire NC 2- 6 L

NCAA Final Four at Providence, RI

Thu Apr 6 vs Maine NC W 2- 0

Sat Apr 8 vs Boston College NC W 4- 2

2000-2001

Fri Oct 6 vs New Hampshire NC T 2- 2 T OT

Sat Oct 7 at Michigan NC T 5- 5 T OT

Fri Oct 13 at Maine NC T 1- 1 T OT

Sat Oct 14 at Maine NC W 4- 2

NCAA Final Four at Albany, NY

Thu Apr 5 vs Michigan State NC W 2- 0

Sat Apr 7 vs Boston College NC 2- 3 L OT

2001-2002

Didn't play "out East"

2002-2003

Xerox College Hockey Showcase (Buffalo, NY)

Fri Oct 11 vs Canisius NC W 8- 0

Sat Oct 12 vs Michigan NC W 5- 4 OT

Fri Nov 1 at Princeton NC W 5- 2

Sat Nov 2 at Yale NC W 7- 3

2003-2004

Didn't play "out East"

2004-2005

Fri Oct 8 at Maine NC W 4- 3 OT

Sat Oct 9 at Maine NC W 3- 1

Fri Oct 29 at Boston College NC 3- 5 L

Sat Oct 30 at Northeastern NC T 3- 3 T OT

NCAA East Regional Worcester, MA

Fri Mar 25 vs Boston University NC W 4- 0

Sat Mar 26 vs Boston College NC W 6- 3

2005-2006

Fri Oct 21 at New Hampshire NC W 3- 2

Sat Oct 22 at New Hampshire NC T 3- 3 T OT

2006-2007

Ledyard Bank Tournament (Hanover, NH)

Fri Dec 29 at Dartmouth NC W 4- 1

Sat Dec 30 vs St. Lawrence NC W 4- 2

2007-2008

Fri Oct 19 at Boston College NC T 0- 0 T

Sat Oct 20 at Northeastern NC W 3- 0

2008-2009

Fri Dec 5 at Harvard NC W 10- 1

Sat Dec 6 at Harvard NC W 4- 3

NCAA Northeast Regional Semifinal (Manchester, NH)

Sat Mar 28 vs New Hampshire NC 5- 6 L OT

2009-2010

Fri Jan 22 at Cornell NC 0- 1 L

Sat Jan 23 at Cornell NC W 3- 1

NCAA Northeast Regional Semifinal (Worcester, MA)

Sat Mar 27 vs Yale NC 2- 3 L

Record Out East 22-6-6