Fixing What's Broken

[SiouxfanofGA]

It is not the referee's that are the problem

1) Checks from behind are unfortunately part of the game and will occur no matter who refs (CCHA, HE, etc all have multiple check from behind penatly called this year). They happen in peewee's and you still see them happen a few times a year in the NHL...they are illegal, and unfortunate when someone is seriously injured when they occur, but its not the refs who commit the hits...

2) The WCHA officials call the game the way they are told too. Each year all ten WCHA schools along with RIC (ref in cheif) and Dr McLeod and others meet to discuss how the league will be officiated (along with other things). For awhile now, the WCHA has decided to continue to allow the clutch and grab, late hits etc to continue

3) Each league is different and this is obvious if you guys watch HE or ECAC or CCHA games played between two teams from those conferences using conference officials. Other leagues have decided to adopt more NHL/USA Hockey standard of play and the WCHA is just behind the eight ball in adopting this in my opinion.

That is all....Go Sioux

[siouxforce19]

Or maybe everyone could just begin to accept it as what it is since there's no logical reason to think anything will change in the foreseeable future.

I'm glad I don't share this attitude. In general, this apathy towards many issues is the downfall of this world we live in.

[sodaksioux]

I think the game is too fast for these referees, it seems as though they are calling penalties based on how a player falls, not on the action that causes the fall, I know this is diving, but legitimate penalties are missed and the wrong players are being called for the penalties. I realize the nature of the game will allow for penalties to be missed and I don't have an answer for this. CFB will happen, injusries will happen, but when the officials are influencing the outcomes of these games, something should be addressed. The scrum at the end of the Sioux/UW last saturday was purely a product of poor officiating.

[redwing77]

As long as the current crop of coaches and administrators in the WCHA accepts the "status quo", you won't see any major changes in the current regime. Unfortunately, it may take a Travis Roy-type event to open their eyes.

Uh, nope. See Bina, Robbie.

What could change it without loss of life? A Steve Downie type player. A player who comes in and seriously goes after everyone. Ok, that's EXTREMELY unlikely because of all the DQs and that no coach would allow such negative publicity on their team and such a detriment being placed on their team.

So, yeah. They only learn what they are forced to learn. If it wasn't for the NCAA and some question about legal action in the Bina case, the WCHA would not have the CFB rule in place.

Or maybe everyone could just begin to accept it as what it is since there's no logical reason to think anything will change in the foreseeable future.

Goon pretty much said it all, but why accept it? I understand we live in a society that panders to mediocrity (C's are ok! They're AVERAGE! It's ok to be average! etc.). Japan and China (well.... sorta) strive for excellence. So, if we do strive for excellence and not accept mediocrity, why do we have such an inferiority complex as far as education is concerned with Japan? Why should we simply shrug our shoulders and say "Well, that's how it is." and go our way? The WCHA bills itself and McLeod even spewed it from the sphincter he calls his mouth, as the premier league in NCAA Division I hockey. So we're supposed to believe him? "Oh. We're the best. I guess there's nothing left to strive for. No problems at all. Let's rock with some excellent hockey." How about another analogy? In the 1980s, we had Apple IIs. They DOMINATED so many different markets. Well.... there were weaknesses back then and IBM, Microsoft, etc. got together and designed a better platform. Guess what happened? Apple was on the brink of death. They released the first generation MacIntosh to little fanfare. It was alright but not great. They simply then reinvented themselves, released a new updated and streamlined Mac, and then proceeded to come up with peripherals that changed the face of society such as the iPod and iPhone. They even were among the first to delve into the realm of PDA. Well, the WCHA is good, but we're teetering on the brink. Time to reinvent ourselves.... but unlike Apple, we're not going to be able to do it under current leadership.

No, it's both a BS answer and the sad reality of today.

And ScottM nailed it:

They've learned nothing from Bina, LaPoint (twice, concussion and slew foot), and now Genoway.

I hope I'm not there the day that Travis Roy seems minor and instead they need a body bag.

True and I'm afraid the only way to change things is through legal action.... and nobody wants a McSorley/Bertuzzi/Simon character around to provoke it because no one wants to be part of the fanbase in which that player plays for.

Is reffing for the WCHA (or college hockey in general) supposed to be:

1) a gateway to reffing for the NHL

2) a very good achievement/accomplishment - respected way to highlight/end your career as a ref

3) seen as a purgatory - not a full-time career goal/not the final place to end a reffing career

I'll say this. I talked to UND's representative to the WCHA Board... I can't remember his name. He taught Business Law and such... not the greatest guy in the world... but in any case, he told me how the WCHA was, at the time, trying to push itself officiating-wise towards being a feeder/development league for officials who are someday going to the NHL.

Uh... no. These days, that honor belongs to the CHL and the USHL among amateur leagues. Last year, the USHL had TWO officials make their NHL debut. TWO. I wonder.... does ANY of our officials even have ONE NHL game under their belts?

[Goon]

Uh... no. These days, that honor belongs to the CHL and the USHL among amateur leagues. Last year, the USHL had TWO officials make their NHL debut. TWO. I wonder.... does ANY of our officials even have ONE NHL game under their belts?

The WCHA and the NCAA needs to have their on ice officials answer to USA hockey. I believe that would fix a lot of the problems.

The WCHA is a good ole boy system that is ripe with nepotism and cronyism... Until the vipers head is cut off it won't change.

[Blackheart]

Is reffing for the WCHA (or college hockey in general) supposed to be:

1) a gateway to reffing for the NHL

2) a very good achievement/accomplishment - respected way to highlight/end your career as a ref

3) seen as a purgatory - not a full-time career goal/not the final place to end a reffing career

or...

4) something for beer league refs to do on the weekend

[The Sicatoka]

I love it when people make my work easy.

Bruce McLeod proved he is clueless about the state of the speed and safety of the game.

Read this article.

When all the commissioners were asked, "If you could uniformly institute or amend one rule, what would it be?" there's a notable gap as there is not a comment on the subject from Bruce McLeod.

The other commissioners talk about "calling the game tight", "eliminating the trap", "make fighting/throwing a punch an automatic ejection", or "hits to the head and those circumstances where players are in vulnerable positions ... "

Bruce?

He. Had. Nothing.

He had no quotes, no ideas, noted in that section of the article.

What's Bruce most concerned about?

Adding BSU and UNO and making more money from the Final Five.

[Goon]

I love it when people make my work easy.

Bruce McLeod proved he is clueless about the state of the speed and safety of the game.

Read this article.

When all the commissioners were asked, "If you could uniformly institute or amend one rule, what would it be?" there's a notable gap as there is not a comment on the subject from Bruce McLeod.

The other commissioners talk about "calling the game tight", "eliminating the trap", "make fighting/throwing a punch an automatic ejection", or "hits to the head and those circumstances where players are in vulnerable positions ... "

Bruce?

He. Had. Nothing.

He had no quotes, no ideas, noted in that section of the article.

What's Bruce most concerned about?

Adding BSU and UNO and making more money from the Final Five.

Nothing is going to change until we the fans in the WCHA DEMAND change.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

seems to be a hot topic these days...

http://www.uscho.com/news/id,17712/Comment...ortheTrees.html

[Goon]

seems to be a hot topic these days...

http://www.uscho.com/news/id,17712/Comment...ortheTrees.html

I agree with a lot of what he has to say. I don't think Lucic is a goon though.

[Ray77]

I agree with a lot of what he has to say. I don't think Lucic is a goon though.

Lucic is not a goon. He's tough, hard-nosed and will drop them when necessary, but he is also a good player. I read what he wrote in this article and he said "...otherwise talented players like Milan Lucic and Alexander Ovechkin..." so sounds like he thinks he is a good player too, just that he can mix it up at times, which maybe he doesn't agree with.

[Goon]

Lucic is not a goon. He's tough, hard-nosed and will drop them when necessary, but he is also a good player. I read what he wrote in this article and he said "...otherwise talented players like Milan Lucic and Alexander Ovechkin..." so sounds like he thinks he is a good player too, just that he can mix it up at times, which maybe he doesn't agree with.

If the NHL keeps rewarding otherwise talented players like Milan Lucic and Alexander Ovechkin for continually crossing the line between hard-nosed hockey and cheap goonery, that line will ultimately disappear entirely

[Ray77]

Here is what I took issue with.

Yeah, I agree with you there.

[Goon]

Yeah, I agree with you there.

I can't wait till he is back playing with Bruins again.

[nodakvindy]

Nothing is going to change until we the fans in the WCHA DEMAND change.

Nothing is going to change until the MEMBER SCHOOLS demand change. Fans can rail all they want, but if coaches, ADs and school presidents aren't doing anything then nothing will happen. That's where the buck stops. Need to end the old boy protection of McLeod. A change there is sorely needed.

[Goon]

Nothing is going to change until the MEMBER SCHOOLS demand change. Fans can rail all they want, but if coaches, ADs and school presidents aren't doing anything then nothing will happen. That's where the buck stops. Need to end the old boy protection of McLeod. A change there is sorely needed.

I think it starts with the Alumni as fans of member schools as well. They can bend the ears of their facualty reps and A.D.s...

I heard that McLown wanted a contract extension and I am hoping the member schools are thinking about giving him one.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

yet another article on the hot topic of the week, from one of our own over on chn...

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2009..._commentary.php

[Goon]

yet another article on the hot topic of the week, from one of our own over on chn...

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2009..._commentary.php

This is the mind set that really gets stuck in my craw. Since Genoway plays for UND some seem to think that UND brings it on themselves and had it coming. Yet UND hasn't had a figthing Major in two seasons.

Quote from landofthefree; Dec 17 2009, 1:28 pm

COMMENT RATING

Remember Mr. Foss, hockey is a rough sport and UND is not squeeky clean when it comes to illegal contact. I agree with Jeff's remarks that injuries alone should not define the punishment. But and blatant disregards for the rules should afford more then two minutes. Hits to the head and intent to injur should be an automatic DQ and possible series ender. Just like fighting. No place for either.

[The Sicatoka]

I could solve all of this right now.

- Stop the "situational officiating". It's not the official's job to keep the game interesting or close, nor is there a section in the rules about putting the whistle away late in the game or in OT.

- Call the rule book as written.

I’m reading some interesting definitions that are clearly in the “never been read before” category.

If you don’t have it you can download it in PDF here:

http://www.ncaapublications.com/ProductsDe...w.aspx?sku=IH10

Rule 6-5: A player shall not butt-end an opponent. A butt-end is when a player uses the shaft of the stick above the upper hand to jab an opponent.

Nowhere in that does it say what direction the action has to be. We normally think of a spearing action. No, you make the move with that part of the stick, landing it or not, and it’s a penalty.

Rule 6-7: A player shall not deliver a check at or below the opponent’s knees. Clipping includes all cases in which an attempt to clip is made regardless of whether contact occurs.

If you dive and contact a skater’s skates you’ve clipped.

Rule 6-8: A player shall not make contact with an opposing player’s head or neck area in any manner.

This one explicitly states “zero tolerance policy”. Yeah, right, whatever.

I’d keep going but reading what the rule book actually says tells me I’m not watching ice hockey in REA.

Instead, other recommended reading:

6-9: “making contact” means any contact, like a two-hander, right?

6-10b: “freeze it along the boards”? Anyone?

6-10f: It defines and clarifies “breakaway” as “A player with a breakaway is a player in control of the puck, on the opponent’s side of the center red line, without opposition between the player and the opposing goal and with a reasonable scoring opportunity."

6-16: “ … but any use of hands to make the puck unplayable should be penalized promptly.”

6-22: “A player shall not make physical contact with an opponent, including the goalkeeper (see 6-6-b), anywhere on the ice after the whistle has blown if, in the opinion of a referee, the player had sufficient time after the whistle to avoid such contact.” Shouldn’t that whistle be like a boxing ref’s “break command”?

6-44: “Refusal to obey the decision of the referee shall not be permitted.” Uh, hello? Anyone?

6-53: “A player shall not taunt an official or opponent.” … or as I like to call it “The Hextall Rule”

6-59b: “A player shall not trip or foul from behind a player in control of the puck on the opponent’s side of the center red line, thus preventing a reasonable scoring opportunity.” Now go back and read “breakaway”. A “reasonable scoring opportunity”. That’s a pretty low criteria. That’s a shot. Clearly, not enough penalty shot opportunities are being recognized and awarded.

[Goon]

I could solve all of this right now.

- Stop the "situational officiating". It's not the official's job to keep the game interesting or close, nor is there a section in the rules about putting the whistle away late in the game or in OT.

-

Sicatoka you know and I know that the WCHA officials aren't going to change till the NCAA TELLS them point blank to cease and desist. Until then they aren't going to change. The WCHA has the worst officating in college hockey and while other leagues have worked to improve the WCHA is going by the Status quo, it will not change until the NCAA stop letting these bafoons from the WCHA officate NCAA tourney games. It starts at the top with the WCHA leadership or lack there of. The ECAC actually hired a former NHL official to ref their games, yet we have officials that couldn't ref in the house league in Canada.

Best start would be to fire Bruce McLeod as the Commish of the WCHA, Head of officials Greg Sheppard should be gone too, take Todd Anderson, Don Adam and Jon Campion. Take the WCHA office out of Denver University and move it to a central location. That is what I would start with. I also think the NCAA should have their officials answer to USA hockey.

[The Sicatoka]

Sicatoka you know and I know that the WCHA officials aren't going to change till the NCAA TELLS them point blank to cease and desist.

That won't work either.

The NCAA has put out "points of emphasis" (see rule book link, page 8) and those don't seem to sink in with the league brass either.

[Goon]

That won't work either.

The NCAA has put out "points of emphasis" (see rule book link, page 8) and those don't seem to sink in with the league brass either.

I find it funny that they want to crack down on hooking, holding and obstruction, hits to the head and what not and then all the leagues but the WCHA seem to have gotten the message. Like I said before they just have to bann WCHA officals from working the NCAA tourney games until they get it right.

It would be interesting to see what Paul Kelly has to say about all of this?

[redwing77]

That won't work either.

The NCAA has put out "points of emphasis" (see rule book link, page 8) and those don't seem to sink in with the league brass either.

You're right on.

Things will only change in the following two scenarios:

1. WCHA ADs get together and force a change in WCHA administration forcing the departure of Greg Shepherd and/or Bruce McLeod. They then install administration who actually feels compliance with NCAA mandates (Even if it pisses off some or all of the WCHA ADs) is more important than being a good old boy and getting 12 christmas dinner invites.

2. LEGAL action forces their hand. So far, this hasn't happened. It's gotten somewhat close (Bina, Robbie) but even that wasn't that near of a miss. The bad publicity in only the fact that BOTH participating teams were WCHA members and that, at the meetings, the WCHA was confronted (in a manner of speaking) by both Travis Roy and Robbie Bina in front of National Media...(as much national media as the NCAA Hockey realm garners) probably had more of an effect. In other words, serious prolonged injury (that includes much of the initial time period in the hospital) is what will provoke change. I don't think someone has to die, but career ending or near ending may be the only way to provide protection to the few. So.... which players are going to provide the "spark" if you will? Who wants to be villified like Paukovich? Who wants the injury ala Robbie Bina or, worse, Travis Roy to get things going? Anyone?

The WCHA will always be an "almost" as long as the two bozos in charge are left to run with a blank check.

[choyt3]

There have been a couple of inferences of Robbie Bina and "lawsuit" thrown about lately in here. I sure don't remember hearing of such a thing from when the incident happened. Is this something that was actually close to happening?

[redwing77]

There have been a couple of inferences of Robbie Bina and "lawsuit" thrown about lately in here. I sure don't remember hearing of such a thing from when the incident happened. Is this something that was actually close to happening?

I heard talk of a lawsuit. I have also heard that there were legal people (though not sure who they worked for) looking into the possibility of legal action ala the McSorley case.

I also believe that this could have been completely fabricated and no lawsuit was ever in doubt.

But if the WCHA WERE to get sued over stuff like this or administrative negligence/incompetence, McLeod would be out on his backside. At the time, Shepherd was only part time, and, thus, it could have been seen as a safety oversight and hurt him professionally. So, he hired Shepherd full time and upheld the rule to the best of his abilities.

In other words: Fear of God.

So, only rumor. Even if it wasn't, I doubt a lawsuit would have been filed anyways.