Question for the "no moniker" folks

[ScottM]

Only if they decide on this ...

[redwing77]

Only if they decide on this ...

All I have to say is:

Ok, the dude in the back right spoils it, but still...

[The Sicatoka]

TWO WORDS:

HELL NO.

They won their battle. They pushed around the majority. The nickname is all but gone. Why give them any more power? What have they done to earn this power in the first place?

They get their nickname and any established NA programs on campus. That's it. No more. They're opting out. Their name is gone, that's all the input we need from the tribes. I say we go in an entirely OPPOSITE direction to what RHHiT and his cronies suggest. No, I don't think we should go out and get something that is purposefully hostile to NA people. No, I don't say we cut NA programming or make life for NA students miserable either. I say it is the same ole same ole from October 1 to eternity with the standard majority ruling over the new nickname.

The NA population at UND just become "just another minority" at UND. Nothing to set them apart from the Asian, Indian, African/African-American, Muslim, Canadian, Eskimo, [insert ethnicity here] that choose UND for their higher education. They have enough with the NA programming (InMED, etc.).

Their influence could have been made towards righting the wrong in a diplomatic way. They could have used the nickname as leverage towards sweetening the pot for NA students at UND. Instead, they just chose to raze the nickname and drag UND's name through the mud with the help of the NCAA and Myles Brand (and his idiot cronies).

Doing what you would say would be like, after getting punched in the mouth, going back to the attacker and asking that person to help you come up with an act or personality that would prevent him from punching you again in the mouth. It gives him POWER. Power he did not earn. Respect he did not deserve. It makes you somewhat subservient to whatever he decides. Do you bow to all your attackers?

If so, then I suggest we come up with the nickname the UND Frenchmen. Our motto could be "Wimpicus Maximus Eternicus" (ok, that's not latin, but you get my drift).

No. This is the bed they made. We bowed to their PC BS. Come October, we work tireless to right what integrity and dignity the PC imbeciles stole from us.

END RANT

Rantus Maximus Agreemus!

But I did fix your one mistake (in bold above) ...

[The Sicatoka]

The NA population at UND just become "just another minority" at UND. Nothing to set them apart from the Asian, Indian, African/African-American, Muslim, Canadian, Eskimo, [insert ethnicity here] that choose UND for their higher education.

I've said this all along.

Leigh Jeanotte and his Jeanotte-headed followers have cried about being equal on campus.

What they don't realize is that by doing this, yes, they'll be equal: They'll be coming down off the pedistal that Tom Clifford put AI programs and AISS on back during his tenure.

Those programs will now all be fighting equally, no more AIs using the moniker as a fulcrum, against every other program for limited campus resources strictly on merit.

Welcome to "equal" Leigh Jeanotte: It probably won't be what you expected, but it is self-inflicted.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

An idea occurred to me during some stream-of-conciousness time today: If we really want to be and stay consistent with the notion (principle) that the "Fighting Sioux" name was intended to honor the American Indians of the state, then we should ask the tribes to choose a suitable nickname - one that they would regard as honorable and representative of their culture and heritage. The Sioux nickname was adopted in a formal naming ceremony and a new name could be initiated in the same way. Many have argued that the name was intended to honor, some have argued that it does not honor and which side is correct is in the heart of the intended honoree. UND should go without any nickname until something evolves to fill the void, but if we really do want to honor the tribes of the state, let them choose how they would like to be so honored.

No, the name "Sioux" was intended to honor the Natives. But they (apparently) didn't want the honor. Now it appears as if the "honor" will be consigned to history. And if that's the case, IMHO what you ought to honor with your next nickname (if any) is the great tradition of democracy.

I'd say let all alums (without regard to heritage, just a simple "do you have a North Dakota diploma?" test) have a say, but nobody's opinion should be worth any more or less than another person's opinion.

[redwing77]

No, the name "Sioux" was intended to honor the Natives. But they (apparently) didn't want the honor. Now it appears as if the "honor" will be consigned to history. And if that's the case, IMHO what you ought to honor with your next nickname (if any) is the great tradition of democracy.

I'd say let all alums (without regard to heritage, just a simple "do you have a North Dakota diploma?" test) have a say, but nobody's opinion should be worth any more or less than another person's opinion.

Yup.

RHHiT gets no vote. Only UND students, alumni, faculty and staff, and administration with the final approval going through the State Politboro I mean State Board of Higher Edimication.

Every vote counts as "1" with the clear and simple majority getting the nod.

[GeauxSioux]

Yup.

RHHiT gets no vote. Only UND students, alumni, faculty and staff, and administration with the final approval going through the State Politboro I mean State Board of Higher Edimication.

Every vote counts as "1" with the clear and simple majority getting the nod.

More than likely it will be a plurality, at least in the early rounds.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

RHHiT gets no vote.

See, to me Ron/Thunder has already

had

his opportunity to vote: for that matter, he was a

superdelegate

if you will. He had his one lever and he threw it away. He could have kept on using that tool over and over in a wise way. Now his influence is gone.

Does anyone remember "A Bronx Tale"? There was a biker gang that occupied DeNiro's bar. Their influence was that they wouldn't leave the bar when they were told; they would leave when they wanted to (or so they thought). DeNiro's character did one simple thing: he merely said "okay, you say you don't want to leave? I don't want you to leave either." And he locked the door. That one simple action turned all the power the other way.

Ron had his chance to use the power the NCAA gave him: he didn't use it wisely and now it's alllllll gone.

Only UND students, alumni, faculty and staff, and administration with the final approval going through the State Politboro I mean State Board of Higher Edimication.

Every vote counts as "1" with the clear and simple majority getting the nod.

I've said this before: it's not perfect, but I've got to limit it to alums. I know this shuts out a lot of everyday fans but IMHO the possiblity of stupidity goes up exponentially when you involve the students.

I'll post a picture tomorrow of what can happen.

[petey23]

An idea occurred to me during some stream-of-conciousness time today: If we really want to be and stay consistent with the notion (principle) that the "Fighting Sioux" name was intended to honor the American Indians of the state, then we should ask the tribes to choose a suitable nickname - one that they would regard as honorable and representative of their culture and heritage. The Sioux nickname was adopted in a formal naming ceremony and a new name could be initiated in the same way. Many have argued that the name was intended to honor, some have argued that it does not honor and which side is correct is in the heart of the intended honoree. UND should go without any nickname until something evolves to fill the void, but if we really do want to honor the tribes of the state, let them choose how they would like to be so honored.

We tried that. We let the People on the reservations vote and they came up with

The Fighting Sioux.

[82SiouxGuy]

I think that everyone should be able to provide input into any new nickname. You never know where something good might come from. However the decisions should be made by actual stakeholders. My thought is to set up a process where the level of decision making input is done by group. Alumni should have the highest level, followed by students, faculty and staff and North Dakota taxpayers. Possibly give alumni 40% of the vote, students get 30%, faculty and staff 20% and the rest of the citizens 10% (actual numbers can be adjusted but I think they should be ranked in this order). I ranked them in order because alumni as a group have a longer history with the school than most others and are often most invested in the school. They also donate a lot of money to the athletic department. Students are what the school is all about and are very passionate now but may not have as much history to balance their decisions. Faculty and staff will have a wide range of experience and interest in the process. And taxpayers should have some input because they help pay for the University, but not all of them have the best interests of UND in mind. The actual importance of the groups should also be balanced by total numbers since the staff and faculty number will be the smallest followed by students, alumni and finally taxpayers. A lot of people will fit into more than 1 category, but their vote would only be part of the highest ranking group. So if a person lives in North Dakota, works for UND and graduated from UND their vote would be part of the alumni group.

[redwing77]

I think that everyone should be able to provide input into any new nickname. You never know where something good might come from. However the decisions should be made by actual stakeholders. My thought is to set up a process where the level of decision making input is done by group. Alumni should have the highest level, followed by students, faculty and staff and North Dakota taxpayers. Possibly give alumni 40% of the vote, students get 30%, faculty and staff 20% and the rest of the citizens 10% (actual numbers can be adjusted but I think they should be ranked in this order). I ranked them in order because alumni as a group have a longer history with the school than most others and are often most invested in the school. They also donate a lot of money to the athletic department. Students are what the school is all about and are very passionate now but may not have as much history to balance their decisions. Faculty and staff will have a wide range of experience and interest in the process. And taxpayers should have some input because they help pay for the University, but not all of them have the best interests of UND in mind. The actual importance of the groups should also be balanced by total numbers since the staff and faculty number will be the smallest followed by students, alumni and finally taxpayers. A lot of people will fit into more than 1 category, but their vote would only be part of the highest ranking group. So if a person lives in North Dakota, works for UND and graduated from UND their vote would be part of the alumni group.

So, your last question can be shortened to: If you work for and/or have attended UND (aka an alumni) you'll be in the alumni group? Good one!

But everyone? No way.

I don't want some schmoe NDSU grad working on a farm out in the boonies of ND having a say. I don't think NDSU would feel the same way if their nickname was to be changed having a UND alum getting a vote.

This is a school issue that does not (regardless of what RHHiT claims) affect the academic side of the University. Ergo, it does not concern the taxpayers. As a public institution, of course, I would not be averse to having Grand Forks residents who aren't UND alums/staff/faculty/students submit ideas for a new nickname. However, they should not receive a vote nor should said nickname idea be given more weight than an idea furnished by someone affiliated with UND. But, no, state taxpayers (not UND affiliated) should be left out of this.

Weighing importance of one group over another just produces more turmoil as well. Keep it in house. Students, staff, faculty, UND administration, and alumni/donors should have a voice. Everyone else can just sit back and watch.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Weighing importance of one group over another just produces more turmoil as well. Keep it in house. Students, staff, faculty, UND administration, and alumni/donors should have a voice. Everyone else can just sit back and watch.

Tricky task, ain't it?

I mean I fully sympathize with those who never had the chance to attend North Dakota but have been passionate fans & supporters over the years. But trying to create a catagory for them (to the exclusion of the people who would just muddy the waters) is almost impossible.

I've given my thoughts above, but I will add this much to your proposed list: throw out administrators and faculty. They've already

had

their say.

[DamStrait]

I've given my thoughts above, but I will add this much to your proposed list: throw out administrators and faculty. They've already had their say. http://forum.siouxsports.com/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png' alt=':D'>

Chief, touch 'em all, 'cause you just hit that one out of the park.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Chief, touch 'em all, 'cause you just hit that one out of the park.

Don't forget I've had twice as much experience with twit administrators as you have.

Just last week our president and chancellor both pooh-poohed the idea that it was a big deal for them to pressure the admissions office for individual students who had political influence: once Blagovich's name got put into play, they were backpedaling so fast they created a sonic boom.

[redwing77]

Don't forget I've had twice as much experience with twit administrators as you have.

Just last week our president and chancellor both pooh-poohed the idea that it was a big deal for them to pressure the admissions office for individual students who had political influence: once Blagovich's name got put into play, they were backpedaling so fast they created a sonic boom.

I didn't know UIUC had an aerospace department.

[Goon]

I don't want some schmoe NDSU grad working on a farm out in the boonies of ND having a say. I don't think NDSU would feel the same way if their nickname was to be changed having a UND alum getting a vote.

This is a school issue that does not (regardless of what RHHiT claims) affect the academic side of the University. Ergo, it does not concern the taxpayers. As a public institution, of course, I would not be averse to having Grand Forks residents who aren't UND alums/staff/faculty/students submit ideas for a new nickname. However, they should not receive a vote nor should said nickname idea be given more weight than an idea furnished by someone affiliated with UND. But, no, state taxpayers (not UND affiliated) should be left out of this.

Weighing importance of one group over another just produces more turmoil as well. Keep it in house. Students, staff, faculty, UND administration, and alumni/donors should have a voice. Everyone else can just sit back and watch.

I don't think the people from NDSU or RHHiT should have a say in the new nick name, they have done all the damage they should be allowed to do.

[Herd]

I don't think the people from NDSU or RHHiT should have a say in the new nick name, they have done all the damage they should be allowed to do.

So, in your opinion, its a UND issue, and the new nickname should be decided by UND without any state help. Even though you'll gladly take state funds (instead of UND funds) to make the changes to your buidlings and arenas. So in your opinion, it's a UND issue sometimes, even though its all NDSU's fault. I think I understand your logic.

[82SiouxGuy]

So, in your opinion, its a UND issue, and the new nickname should be decided by UND without any state help. Even though you'll gladly take state funds (instead of UND funds) to make the changes to your buidlings and arenas. So in your opinion, it's a UND issue sometimes, even though its all NDSU's fault. I think I understand your logic.

Just because NDSU caused the problem doesn't mean that they should help fix it.

[Bison Dan]

Just because NDSU caused the problem doesn't mean that they should help fix it.

You guys need to get a clue. Years of neglecting to build a good relationship with the tribes, lack of leadership, and arrogance lead to your demise. Time to man up and admit it. It's a stupid result but this could all have been prevented. It was self inflicted and fatal.

[Goon]

So, in your opinion, its a UND issue, and the new nickname should be decided by UND without any state help.

We don't lecturing for the folks at the other school.

[GeauxSioux]

You guys need to get a clue. Years of neglecting to build a good relationship with the tribes, lack of leadership, and arrogance lead to your demise. Time to man up and admit it. It's a stupid result but this could all have been prevented. It was self inflicted and fatal.

While I do agree that UND could have done more outreach to the tribes, I don't think, in the end, it would have mattered. The minority that has pushed the name change, such as Ron HHiT, would have been there regardless. What didn't help is the NDSU chant "Sioux Suck" or the derogatory t-shirts.

[Bison Dan]

While I do agree that UND could have done more outreach to the tribes, I don't think, in the end, it would have mattered. The minority that has pushed the name change, such as Ron HHiT, would have been there regardless. What didn't help is the NDSU chant "Sioux Suck" or the derogatory t-shirts.

Yeah it's okay to say Bison Suck right? I disagree that it would have changed - look at FL & Central MI. It's all about relationships. (Money)

[GeauxSioux]

Yeah it's okay to say Bison Suck right? I disagree that it would have changed - look at FL & Central MI. It's all about relationships. (Money)

I thought it was 'SU sucks.

This gets done because of money, not relationships. North Dakota is not Florida, so that formula doesn't work.

[82SiouxGuy]

You guys need to get a clue. Years of neglecting to build a good relationship with the tribes, lack of leadership, and arrogance lead to your demise. Time to man up and admit it. It's a stupid result but this could all have been prevented. It was self inflicted and fatal.

My reply was a joke. Obviously you didn't get it. Maybe you missed the winking emoticon. Are you missing your funny bone?

After thinking about this issue a lot, I think that Geaux Sioux is correct. I think that UND would have had problems no matter what they did to work with the tribes. There is a more active opposition group working on Native American issues in the plains area than in most other parts of the country. AIM is one example. UND might have been able to work with the tribes better if they had worked harder earlier. But they would have had issues and an active opposition group no matter how hard they worked.

[Goon]

My reply was a joke. Obviously you didn't get it. Maybe you missed the winking emoticon. Are you missing your funny bone?

Yes he is and you can't have sucks with out NDSU.