State Board

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Listening to Grant Shaft on KNOX Radio.

His spin ...

October 1 deadline allows for:

- Spirit Lake actions

- Standing Rock referendum (hopefully on July 15 ballot)

- resolutions from tribal councils

- application to Summit League

As does a deadline of August 1: or October 1, 2010 for that matter. JMHO, but with three of the four Dakota schools the Summit needs you as much as you need them.

" ... have to bleed green across the board ... "

I just have to believe that his definition of "bleeding green" is very different from the definition of most alums.

He may live to learn that there's more than one thing that's called green; as in "long green".

Claims SBoHE dug deeper into this than most topics.

Now

that's

scary. Not surprising that a politician would say this, but scary nontheless.

Claims board has worked closely with UND, alumni, and REA to satisfy all partners.

Really?

Can you tell us who you talked to among the alumni "partners"?

Do you

REALLY

think the majority of alums were in favor of this? If so, I have to question your judgement even more than I do now.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

For it to be an 8-0 vote, there must have been a lot of discussion (cover) for the board members to vote to end the use of the Sioux name.

Does the state of North Dakota have a law calling for open meetings?

[Goon]

Does the state of North Dakota have a law calling for open meetings?

yeah that is what people are wondering about why not have the meeting in Grand Forks, Bismarck or Fargo. Why did it have to be in town so far out of the way? Hum. This smells like Bull S#!T

[Nodaker]

Listening to Grant Shaft on KNOX Radio.

Q: Is UND guaranteed into Summit?

A: No. No quid pro quo.

A: Claims Summit has talked with SCSU about "campus disruptions" when UND comes to town (sidebar: Allow me to puke here)

Didn't most of this start with SCSU's former prez going to the NC$$ to get Indian names banned? I'm sure SCSU made it sound like there were near riots on campus rather than the actual 2 or 3 protesters.

[Goon]

Didn't most of this start with SCSU's former prez going to the NC$$ to get Indian names banned? I'm sure SCSU made it sound like there were near riots on campus rather than the actual 2 or 3 protesters.

remember there is a right to not be offended. So I guess if 2-3 people and their moronic ex-president are offended the name has to go.

[siouxjoy]

yeah that is what people are wondering about why not have the meeting in Grand Forks, Bismarck or Fargo. Why did it have to be in town so far out of the way? Hum. This smells like Bull S#!T

I'm fairly sure the SBoHE rotates its meetings throughout the NDUS campuses. The meeting site was likely planned well before this issue was added to the agenda.

The fact that the meeting was on the other side of the state, two days before the end of the semester was just gravy.

[octupus25]

Boy that Grant Shaft is a brave one. I swear, these are carbon copies of Neville Chamberlin. Let's turn over a country to the Nazis because that's the right thing to do. I mean seriously, if you really felt strongly about something you would vote for it. It's not like you're going to be killed or beat up. Shaft is a coward. Wouldn't it be nice to hook these people up to a lie detector test and fire away with some questions?

I don't like Ron His Horse is Thunder and I don't agree with his mafia tactics at Standing Rock. I 100% don't like his stance on the name. My point is that in a way I actually respect him. He is, to the best of my knowledge, honest about his opinion and he fights for it. These chickens in the Gov's office, the higher board of ed., and the newspapers around here won't come out all the way and admit their opinion. It's for the good of the state, the summit league, marketing opportunities, etc etc... Would any of you go into battle with these clowns? I would Ron Thunder long before Shaft, Hoeven, Kelly, and all the rest. Man I had to do some serious praying last night and today because it gets me so outraged and there's so little I can do. I hate the compromising. When will people learn that every single time we compromise with these people we never get anything back?

I believe in miracles, I really do, so I guess there is a part of me that thinks there is that one in a billion chance this can be saved. It's just sad, it really is. I don't hate Hoeven, Earl, or Kelly. I can promise you that I will never vote for any of them. I will never support Robert Kelly in any way shape or form. I will never shake their hand at an event. I will never buy another Herald. I will remember the names and if they ever run for office, they can kiss my butt. That's all I can do.

Some of you guys on here have futures and will succeed in life. You guys fight like tigers for the things you believe in. You blow away any MMA fighter. Some of you on here give me hope for our country. I'm sad now, but I think some of you will make a difference someday. If any of you are graduating tomorrow, I'm just sorry this crap has to rain on the day. Tune out Dorgan's lies and know you're going places. Some of you have character and that isn't something you can pretend.

[UND92,96]

A: Claims Summit has talked with SCSU about "campus disruptions" when UND comes to town (sidebar: Allow me to puke here)

This may be one of the single dumbest things I've ever heard. Question--what has caused more of a "disruption" on the SCSU campus--the dozen or so professional activists who show up to "protest" before hockey and football games when UND was in town; or the whole anti-semitic controversy from a few years ago? Or was that somehow the fault of the Fighting Sioux nickname, too? Did Douple consult with JBB, too?

[The Sicatoka]

Folks, this is the best post I've seen yet.

Thinking about what Shaft said on KNOX, a lot of public officials seem to have talked about various things at various times with various folks.

I sure hope no open meetings laws were violated along the way.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

yeah that is what people are wondering about why not have the meeting in Grand Forks, Bismarck or Fargo. Why did it have to be in town so far out of the way? Hum. This smells like Bull S#!T

Well, an 8-0 vote after 29 minutes of "discussion" sounds to me like the vote was pre-ordained, that there was a lot of "discussion" held outside of the meeting: which SHOULD be a violation of the law.

And you're right, dragging the tribal supporter to a distant location to

supposedly

hear what he was going to say (and then just ignoring him) was rude.

[The Walrus]

Obviously this is promoted by the wonderful world of welcome to D1 athletics. Such as in the past with other Presidents and Athletic Administration, we have somewhat temporary transplants making permanent decisions on the History and Legacy of UND. We have sold out for all the minor sports that will never, ever have a chance to compete on a National level anyway. other than the possible one and done NCAA tourney, we may or may not make every 7-10 years in WBB and MBB. Football and Hockey are by far the 2 most popular sports that will bring recognition to our University now probably known as only North Dakota.

[mksioux]

Obviously this is promoted by the wonderful world of welcome to D1 athletics. Such as in the past with other Presidents and Athletic Administration, we have somewhat temporary transplants making permanent decisions on the History and Legacy of UND. We have sold out for all the minor sports that will never, ever have a chance to compete on a National level anyway. other than the possible one and done NCAA tourney, we may or may not make every 7-10 years in WBB and MBB. Football and Hockey are by far the 2 most popular sports that will bring recognition to our University now probably known as only North Dakota.

Please. The NCAA sanctions were not sustainable even if UND had stayed in DII. Do you honestly believe UND football not being able to host DII playoff games would be acceptable to anyone? Not being able to host playoff games is a deal breaker at any division.

[dmksioux]

Obviously this is promoted by the wonderful world of welcome to D1 athletics. Such as in the past with other Presidents and Athletic Administration, we have somewhat temporary transplants making permanent decisions on the History and Legacy of UND. We have sold out for all the minor sports that will never, ever have a chance to compete on a National level anyway. other than the possible one and done NCAA tourney, we may or may not make every 7-10 years in WBB and MBB. Football and Hockey are by far the 2 most popular sports that will bring recognition to our University now probably known as only North Dakota.

I can see your point... However, If UND was/is not able to find a DI conference for all sports (The Great West is not a conference), both football and hockey would be affected. We saw how much traveling the "minor sports" had to do this year as well as the next couple of years...that adds up to some big dollars. The money made by football and hockey would have to help offset those other "minor" sports. Getting into a conference such as The Summit League will make our athletic department more financially stable and the revenue generating sports won't take as big of a hit to help support those "minor" sports.

[jloos]

I agree with the decision. There is obviously no way UND will ever be able to keep the name because of the insanely stupid "settlement" with the NC$$. Why drag this out any longer than it needs to? Once they filed the suit they should have been prepared to go all the way with it. They cowered once the NC$$ started playing dirty by bringing in 30 year old pictures of the Judge among other shameless tactics.

I say the nickname should be the Fighting. That's it, leave it as 'Fighting' and let the fans fill in the rest. Any IP people out there know what happens to the copyright on the logo once UND drops it? I assume they cannot keep ownership of it.

[star2city]

I say the nickname should be the Fighting. That's it, leave it as 'Fighting' and let the fans fill in the rest. Any IP people out there know what happens to the copyright on the logo once UND drops it? I assume they cannot keep ownership of it.

Schools normally maintain ownership of non-current logos so ownership doesn't fall into other hands. In this case, highly doubt the logo would be sold or released.

[bronco96]

Obviously this is promoted by the wonderful world of welcome to D1 athletics. Such as in the past with other Presidents and Athletic Administration, we have somewhat temporary transplants making permanent decisions on the History and Legacy of UND. We have sold out for all the minor sports that will never, ever have a chance to compete on a National level anyway. other than the possible one and done NCAA tourney, we may or may not make every 7-10 years in WBB and MBB. Football and Hockey are by far the 2 most popular sports that will bring recognition to our University now probably known as only North Dakota.

Few questions:

1) Are you aware of what is costs to support TRAVEL alone for an independent Division 1 program? How would you propose to maintain those w/out a legit D1 conference??

2) Would you, if you had your choice, have every non-Hockey sport still in D2 in the non-NDSU/SDSU NCC? Maybe the new NSIC??

In reading this thread, as it has been forever only confirms this time after time....90% of you only care about two things: 1) UND Hockey and 2) The Fighting Sioux name. Football....a WAY distant 3rd on the list.

Next, are you aware that since the REA was built and in essence handed the keys to Athletic Marketing that the Women's Hockey team receives more Marketing resources than the Football program? How do you feel about that??

Tell the old wrestling program coach and athletes UND "sold out" for minor sports...they'll love that one.

Were/are you aware of the role NDSU's increasae in football scholarships affected football recruiting in the past 6 years? How this affected the eventual departure of Dale Lennon?? How UND may have never went Division 1 had it not been for UND's football community noting their fiscal donations were creeping into the Ops budget instead of football scholarships...and their threat to UND to begin w/holding those donations??

For some and it's understandable...you've never followed the entire UND Athletics community at large. You've only seen the tidbits here and there about dropping the nickname, how the Hockey/Football team are doing, etc. There are those on this board that have...and I think they are the more reasoned ones posting today (DaveK a great poster and proud person THE noteable exception to caving into PC thought).

I am grateful UND is taking the steps necessary to get into the Summit Leage. Hockey and Football are on pace to do well into the future. At least now EVERY sport should have a conference title to play for AND an NCAA berth soon enough.

While nobody wins with the eventual retirement of the Fighting Sioux name because it was never resolved outside of NCAA legislation, non-binding Tribal votes and the legal system, UND will live to see another day. I don't see a natural successor to the Fighting Sioux coming anytime soon...and so in large part for the future the UND faithful will still end the National Anthem with SIOUX!!!

[Butkus33]

No, if someone goes after NDSU I won't be one of them.

So Fourwinds boy, I am being serious as my position has always been to let the Sioux tribes vote and be the deciding factor if UND keeps the Sioux name or not.

So is it right that one tribe is not being allowed to vote, is that right? Why won't they allow their people to vote? To be honest it reminds a little bit of communism.

Here is my reasoning to support the name

1. It represents strength, honor, poise, confidence and intelligence

2. It represents a school of higher learning

3. It does not promote racism, rather it exposes it.

Now there are people that are racist and that will always be there, on every side of the line there are racists but to say that a name is used to bring down a group of people at a University is in my opinion false. I also believe that people that say that if the name goes so should the Native American programs should get their head checked themselves. What good does that do? None. As a culture a melting pot culture of America, we have honored other great cultures from the Spartans, Trojans, Patriots, Vikings, Irish some because they struggled but were resilient and fought to overcome the obstacles put before them to succeed, others because they were the standard of the time of being the superior force that ruled the land.

But that is neither here nor there as it is not my place to say whether we should be allowed to keep the Sioux name, that right belongs to the Sioux people, not a council not what is thought of as a minority of a minority but rather what the collective soul of the tribe, the Sioux tribe, no matter the outcome that is who it belongs to.

[octupus25]

I really like that first one. You nailed it.

[SiouxMeNow]

Any IP people out there know what happens to the copyright on the logo once UND drops it? I assume they cannot keep ownership of it.

I might be wrong here but I don't believe UND holds the actual copyright on the current Ben Brien designed-indian head logo - REA does! UND purchased the rights from Brien and it eventually came under the title of Fighting Sioux Sports Properties (an REA entity) when REA was calling most of the shots for UND athletics...also known as the "while Roger slept" years...that would mean even if UND drops the name, REA can still use (and market) the logo because they're not UND, they're a private entity.

[gfhockey]

Heard that some alumni are starting a petition to get get a good ole boy in the netwrok... wont elaborate... more later.

[ScottM]

I say the nickname should be the Fighting. That's it, leave it as 'Fighting' and let the fans fill in the rest. Any IP people out there know what happens to the copyright on the logo once UND drops it? I assume they cannot keep ownership of it.

It's not a copyright issue, but a trademark issue. To maintain a trademark, the owner has to periodically certify the mark is still used in commerce. If the owner surrenders the mark or does not use it commerce, they generally lose their rights to it.

[SiouxMeNow]

It's not a copyright issue, but a trademark issue. To maintain a trademark, the owner has to periodically certify the mark is still used in commerce. If the owner surrenders the mark or does not use it commerce, they generally lose their rights to it.

Thanks for the insight

Regardless if it's a "copyright", "trademark", or "tradestyle" - SOMEONE owns the Brien-Sioux head logo and I dont' think it's UND?

[The Walrus]

Please. The NCAA sanctions were not sustainable even if UND had stayed in DII. Do you honestly believe UND football not being able to host DII playoff games would be acceptable to anyone? Not being able to host playoff games is a deal breaker at any division.

I understand this, my point was that with the D1 move, we had time to exhaust all options on this topic. Now because the New Administration is feeling pressure from somewhere, we have escalated the process and why...? UND would not be able to host a D1AA Football playoff game until 2012 if all the stars came in alignment perfectly anyway.

For the record, I am not a staunch supporter of the Logo and Nickname. I am however a UND Sports enthusiast and support the Athletes and Coaches, I maybe in the minority (I will always continue to give and support), but by not exhausting all the available options till the end, the majority who want the Logo and Nickname could very well hinder the support UND needs.

I can see your point... However, If UND was/is not able to find a DI conference for all sports (The Great West is not a conference), both football and hockey would be affected. We saw how much traveling the "minor sports" had to do this year as well as the next couple of years...that adds up to some big dollars. The money made by football and hockey would have to help offset those other "minor" sports. Getting into a conference such as The Summit League will make our athletic department more financially stable and the revenue generating sports won't take as big of a hit to help support those "minor" sports.

I agree, but what makes anyone think that if we could not be consistently competitive at the level we were at in D2, or in transition, that we will ever be able to be competitive at the D1 level...? In a conference (Summit) that is perhaps the worst D1 conference in America, no matter how much money we save on travel, most people only will support wining programs. I do not believe for a minute that ths "Summit" is where the future of UND Athletics lies.

I guess our trophy cases were just too full where we were at.

[The Sicatoka]

Thanks for the insight

Regardless if it's a "copyright", "trademark", or "tradestyle" - SOMEONE owns the Brien-Sioux head logo and I dont' think it's UND?

What can be done with that logo is covered by the NCAA/State of ND agreement, page 8, item j. Don't think that some attorney didn't think of that before you.

[The Walrus]

Few questions:

1) Are you aware of what is costs to support TRAVEL alone for an independent Division 1 program? How would you propose to maintain those w/out a legit D1 conference??

Yes, I am. My question is why now why today did we jump to this deadline. Is there a offer on the Tale for a D1 conference that I do not know about, earlier that 2012...?

2) Would you, if you had your choice, have every non-Hockey sport still in D2 in the non-NDSU/SDSU NCC? Maybe the new NSIC??

Say, but True I was one of the few that would have been happy with D1 Hockey and D2 Athletics, I liked trying to win National Titles and hoping to beat Grand Valley State, But I understand, I'm the minority.

In reading this thread, as it has been forever only confirms this time after time....90% of you only care about two things: 1) UND Hockey and 2) The Fighting Sioux name. Football....a WAY distant 3rd on the list.

Not True with me, my support and giving will not change with any decision so far D1 vs D2, or Logo and Nickname. I go to UND sports because I enjoy watching young Athletes compete and my association with the Coaches.

Next, are you aware that since the REA was built and in essence handed the keys to Athletic Marketing that the Women's Hockey team receives more Marketing resources than the Football program? How do you feel about that??

It's a travesty, but the way of the PC world now a days.

Tell the old wrestling program coach and athletes UND "sold out" for minor sports...they'll love that one.

If Bruce Moe would not have almost single handily ruined the program it could possibly still be around today, that with a combo of gender equity UND was given no other options.

Were/are you aware of the role NDSU's increase in football scholarships affected football recruiting in the past 6 years? How this affected the eventual departure of Dale Lennon?? How UND may have never went Division 1 had it not been for UND's football community noting their fiscal donations were creeping into the Ops budget instead of football scholarships...and their threat to UND to begin w/holding those donations??

Again, I was happy where we were at rooting for local ND and Minnesota kids, ask how the merry go round of Jail time for the Bison is going now with the new breed of scholarship Athlete they have to bring in, and soon, so will we.

For some and it's understandable...you've never followed the entire UND Athletics community at large. You've only seen the tidbits here and there about dropping the nickname, how the Hockey/Football team are doing, etc. There are those on this board that have...and I think they are the more reasoned ones posting today (DaveK a great poster and proud person THE noteable exception to caving into PC thought).

I have been to every type of UND Sporting event as a Fan, Supporter, even as a Volunteer Coach. Can you say the same...?

I am grateful UND is taking the steps necessary to get into the Summit League. Hockey and Football are on pace to do well into the future. At least now EVERY sport should have a conference title to play for AND an NCAA berth soon enough.

We will just agree to disagree, the "Summit" in my opinion is not the end all a this time for UND Athletics.

While nobody wins with the eventual retirement of the Fighting Sioux name because it was never resolved outside of NCAA legislation, non-binding Tribal votes and the legal system, UND will live to see another day. I don't see a natural successor to the Fighting Sioux coming anytime soon...and so in large part for the future the UND faithful will still end the National Anthem with SIOUX!!!