Newberry No Names

[nodakvindy]

Pretty good story from today's USA Today. It is the cover story for sports in the print edition. Wouldn't be surprised to see UND take this approach short term if it comes to that.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/200...-Newberry_N.htm

[bincitysioux]

I hope this is the approach UND takes.............and I mean for the long term.

"I still consider myself an Indian and always will," he says. "The NCAA can say what it wants, but I don't have to listen."

Sioux fans wouldn't be able to follow that mantra for long if we quickly adopt a new nickname like the "Sundogs" or "The Flood".

Just North Dakota......THE University of North Dakota. Blackhawk gear readily available at all sporting goods stores in GF. I like it....

[UNDvince97-01]

Just North Dakota......THE University of North Dakota.

Or......

[redwing77]

Or......

That logo would only work if the feathers were removed.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Just North Dakota......THE University of North Dakota. Blackhawk gear readily available at all sporting goods stores in GF. I like it....

Sounds alright to me!

Edit: I don't want anything to do with that school in Florida...

[ScottM]

I agree with their approach. When the Sioux name/logo go away, I see no reason to adopt any other moniker.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I add my voice to those who support "no nickname".

Anyone else detect a little bias in that newspaper article? The print edition has the subhead "Hard feelings persist for ex-Indians supporters": as if somehow everyone should just accept this. As if they would write "hard feelings persist for ex-protestors" if the decision at Newberry would have been to keep the nickname, or if they would write about "hard feelings persisting" among those who don't support Seminoles or Utes. No, those people are happily quoted about a "societal sea change".

And of course, "Clinging to a tradition". I think we just went thru an election with the word "clinging" attached to a political viewpoint. Thanks for the unbiased reporting.

Final quote from the ariticle:

"We'd be sorry if we rushed into it and became the Fire Ants or Pine Beetles."

[gjw007]

I agree with their approach. When the Sioux name/logo go away, I see no reason to adopt any other moniker.

I agree with the no knickname approach but it stills needs to be recognized that the NCAA could still hold UND 'hostile and abusive' even going as the University of North Dakota since Dakota is the name of an Indian tribe.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

...needs to be recognized that the NCAA could still hold UND 'hostile and abusive' even going as the University of North Dakota since Dakota is the name of an Indian tribe.

Not that I would like to see this actually happen: but I would enjoy witnessing the tortured logic and semantic-gymnastics that would be used to try and justify that.

[Goon]

I hope this is the approach UND takes.............and I mean for the long term.

Sioux fans wouldn't be able to follow that mantra for long if we quickly adopt a new nickname like the "Sundogs" or "The Flood".

I don't think we want the name SUNDODGS.

[gjw007]

Not that I would like to see this actually happen: but I would enjoy witnessing the tortured logic and semantic-gymnastics that would be used to try and justify that.

I can't see this actually happening either but when PC runs amuck, who knows. There is an interesting book titled '1491' about the Indians in the Americas before Columbus. It is much more hostile and abusive to force people to forget them than it is to recognize them.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I can't see this actually happening either but when PC runs amuck, who knows. There is an interesting book titled '1491' about the Indians in the Americas before Columbus. It is much more hostile and abusive to force people to forget them than it is to recognize them.

I haven't read that book, but I do agree that wiping out these nicknames isn't going to make people remember the Natives, much less look upon them kindly.

The unfortunate thing is that the NCAA gave this power to the tribes in the first place.

And I'd like to add something that's overall to this thread rather than a particular response here: the USA Today story mentioned that Newberry may be exploring a way to have their nickname be the "Cherokee Indians" (with the cooperation of a local tribe). I've advanced the idea before that if one tribe works with your school, your team could be called the "Spirit Lake Sioux". I wonder how the signed settlement might affect this option for North Dakota.

[Chewey]

Why not be the North Dakota "Fighting Chippewa"? From what I understand, the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Tribal Chairperson and the tribal leadership have no issue with this nickname business. That tribe has been a pretty successful tribe financially with the industry that has been up there and its proximity to Canada. The CAnadians love coming to the casino. I am sure that the tribal leaders there would enjoy working with the university to obtain the potential benefits that are being spurned by the tribal leadership of the other tribes. It would be terrible to lose the Sioux nickname because we've had it for so long but it would not take long to adopt to a new nickname that is similar.

[darell1976]

Why not be the North Dakota "Fighting Chippewa"? From what I understand, the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Tribal Chairperson and the tribal leadership have no issue with this nickname business. That tribe has been a pretty successful tribe financially with the industry that has been up there and its proximity to Canada. The CAnadians love coming to the casino. I am sure that the tribal leaders there would enjoy working with the university to obtain the potential benefits that are being spurned by the tribal leadership of the other tribes. It would be terrible to lose the Sioux nickname because we've had it for so long but it would not take long to adopt to a new nickname that is similar.

I have thought of that too remember when they wanted to put a casino in Grand Forks. I think UND should ask the tribal council of the Turtle Mtn Chippewa too look at that idea and see how many people support it. But would the NCAA make us get support from other Chippewa tribes of the region like White Earth, Red Lake, or Leech Lake?? If approved we can schedule a game with Central Michigan and it can be the Chippewas vs the Chippewas, and as part Chippewa I would be honored...for some season tickets i would be more honored LOL!!!

[ScottM]

I would rather avoid any other Indian-related name/logo entirely. Nothing's to prevent some tribal council or other governing body from being controlled by the same folks who seem to run Standing Rock.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

...I think UND should ask the tribal council of the Turtle Mtn Chippewa too look at that idea and see how many people support it. But would the NCAA make us get support from other Chippewa tribes of the region like White Earth, Red Lake, or Leech Lake??...

This is just one layman's opinion: but I'd say that if you got support from the Turtle Mountain Chippewas but not any of the other local Chippewa tribes, your team could be called the

Turtle Mountain Chippewas

. But in that case you could not use just the single word

Chippewas

.

[darell1976]

This is just one layman's opinion: but I'd say that if you got support from the Turtle Mountain Chippewas but not any of the other local Chippewa tribes, your team could be called the

Turtle Mountain Chippewas

. But in that case you could not use just the single word

Chippewas

.

Since their high school there is called the Belcourt Braves i wouldn't think they have total disagreement on indian nicknames. That's what i don't get why do some (Ron His Horse Is Thunder) so against Indian nicknames being used but they use them at schools on the reservation...Mandan Braves, Warroad Warriors, Belcourt Braves, Four Winds Indians.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Since their high school there is called the Belcourt Braves i wouldn't think they have total disagreement on indian nicknames. That's what i don't get why do some (Ron His Horse Is Thunder) so against Indian nicknames being used but they use them at schools on the reservation...Mandan Braves, Warroad Warriors, Belcourt Braves, Four Winds Indians.

And the University of North Carolina at Pembroke Braves.

http://uncpbraves.athleticsite.com/

And an interesting photo of their clocktower

here.

(You have to scroll down a little.)

Why the NCAA came down with the idea that all Indian nicknames are bad (unless specifically agreed to) remains a mystery. Clearly they were wrong, and the way the Seminoles pinned their ears back within days (if not hours) should prove something.

If these nicknames were so horrible the schools would suffer-and they're not.

[Chewey]

This is just one layman's opinion: but I'd say that if you got support from the Turtle Mountain Chippewas but not any of the other local Chippewa tribes, your team could be called the

Turtle Mountain Chippewas

. But in that case you could not use just the single word

Chippewas

.

I think you could still use "Chippewa" because you've gotten the approval of the namesake tribe in your state. That's why the NC00 demanded that both of ND's Sioux tribes, as far as I recall. Native Americans are such a part of ND's history that it would be best to retain some native logo, whether it is the Sioux or Chippewa. The fact that a small minority of a minority thinks using such imagery is "hostile and abusive" does not change the fact that the U and its athletes and its fan base are using the imagery respectfully and are using it for purposes of acknowledging and validating the culture/history behind the imagery. The Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa leadership seems to get this point. The Seminole Nation could, under the NC00 argument, revoke the benefit to use the imagery at any time but it has chosen not to do so. Evidently, they appreciate all of the good benefits the tribe gets, both recognition-wise and financially. Some arrangement like that could be worked out with the TMBC.

[darell1976]

I think you could still use "Chippewa" because you've gotten the approval of the namesake tribe in your state. That's why the NC00 demanded that both of ND's Sioux tribes, as far as I recall. Native Americans are such a part of ND's history that it would be best to retain some native logo, whether it is the Sioux or Chippewa. The fact that a small minority of a minority thinks using such imagery is "hostile and abusive" does not change the fact that the U and its athletes and its fan base are using the imagery respectfully and are using it for purposes of acknowledging and validating the culture/history behind the imagery. The Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa leadership seems to get this point. The Seminole Nation could, under the NC00 argument, revoke the benefit to use the imagery at any time but it has chosen not to do so. Evidently, they appreciate all of the good benefits the tribe gets, both recognition-wise and financially. Some arrangement like that could be worked out with the TMBC.

I think UND could work a deal also GF could work out a deal with the TMBC, like a casino built in the city for use of the nickname and hopefully work out a long term agreement so they can't change it. Now if say we were the ND Fighting Chippewas..would Minnesota still have the ban on us?? And the Summitt League.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I think you could still use "Chippewa" because you've gotten the approval of the namesake tribe in your state...

I replied rather quickly the other day, and I didn't have a lot of information. From reading the post I has assumed that there was more than one sub-tribe of the Chippewa tribe that was headquartered within North Dakota. I was wrong to make that assumption. A cursory exam of Google (not my favorite source, but more info than I had before) seems to indicate that the Turtle Mountain group is the sole (federally-recognized) Chippewa tribe within N.D.

I am changing my opinion from my earlier posting. IMHO, if you get the sole Chippewa Tribe within your state to agree, I see no reason why the NCAA could

logically

prevent you from callling yourselves the University of North Dakota Fighting Chippewas, or just Chippewas.

(And my emphasis on the word "logically" results only from many years of reading what the NCAA spews as gospel.)

Thank you for gently encouraging me to research the topic further.

[darell1976]

I replied rather quickly the other day, and I didn't have a lot of information. From reading the post I has assumed that there was more than one sub-tribe of the Chippewa tribe that was headquartered within North Dakota. I was wrong to make that assumption. A cursory exam of Google (not my favorite source, but more info than I had before) seems to indicate that the Turtle Mountain group is the sole (federally-recognized) Chippewa tribe within N.D.

I am changing my opinion from my earlier posting. IMHO, if you get the sole Chippewa Tribe within your state to agree, I see no reason why the NCAA could

logically

prevent you from callling yourselves the University of North Dakota Fighting Chippewas, or just Chippewas.

(And my emphasis on the word "logically" results only from many years of reading what the NCAA spews as gospel.)

Thank you for gently encouraging me to research the topic further.

Well didn't Central Mich only get permisson from the tribes of Michigan and not of the Chippewa tribes of Wisconsin or Ohio or Minnesota. So i would think the NCAA would grant this to UND if they got permission from only the TMBC. Of course its the NCAA and we know how Myles Brand thinks.

[redwing77]

Well didn't Central Mich only get permisson from the tribes of Michigan and not of the Chippewa tribes of Wisconsin or Ohio or Minnesota. So i would think the NCAA would grant this to UND if they got permission from only the TMBC. Of course its the NCAA and we know how Myles Brand thinks.

I love the idea of the Fighting Ojibwe.

By the way, how is that spelled? I've seen it spelled Ojibwe, Ojibwa, and Ojibway before. All of them accepted enough to put on the cover of non-fiction books.

[Shawn-O]

I think pursuing another Native American name is a dumb idea. Let's go the "no-name" approach and be deliberate about this.

[mksioux]

I strongly agree with the no-nickname approach. But make no mistake, there is going to be a strong push by those who pushed to see the nickname dropped to replace the nickname as soon as possible. They will deem all of us pushing for no nickname to be clinging to the Sioux name.

Personally for me, the biggest reason I would support having no nickname is that I have no faith in administrators and "constituent committees" to pick replacement nicknames that wouldn't make me throw up.