Time for the Fire Hakstol thread

[yzerman19]

My beef with the Defense isn't their ability to play defense, but their inability to transition the puck. I still blame Hakstol for this because of the high breakout. Short crisp passes up the ice, 5-10 footers, not 30-40 footers. I blame the inability of the defensemen (exception Genoway) to beat a forechecker one on one, and the overall inability to adjust the breakout depending on the oponents forecheck. We play our system, we do not adapt based on what's available. This is a recipe for disaster against well coached teams. Well coached teams will simply adopt a style that will give our system fits and hope for us to make a couple mistakes that they can score goals off of.

I also blame the forwards for not coming down to help out. I blame the telegraphing of passes and the overall inability to create offense. The only forwards I have been at all impressed with this year are Frattin, Hextall, Gregoire and Martens. Lammy is also a pleasant surprise.

Where is Vandy? Was Duncan a product of Oshie and Toews? It's really starting to look like it. How about Kozek's big year? Looks like he benefitted from playing with Oshie too. I bet the Thrashers are glad they didn't sign him after last season, unless they want a checker. He is doing a very good job hitting out there. Watkins, Trupp, Malone? nowhere, disappointment, and cut if I'm coach respectively.

It is virtually guaranteed now that we must win the FInal Five to make the NCAAs.

[AZSIOUX]

My beef with the Defense isn't their ability to play defense, but their inability to transition the puck. I still blame Hakstol for this because of the high breakout. Short crisp passes up the ice, 5-10 footers, not 30-40 footers. I blame the inability of the defensemen (exception Genoway) to beat a forechecker one on one, and the overall inability to adjust the breakout depending on the oponents forecheck. We play our system, we do not adapt based on what's available. This is a recipe for disaster against well coached teams. Well coached teams will simply adopt a style that will give our system fits and hope for us to make a couple mistakes that they can score goals off of.

I also blame the forwards for not coming down to help out. I blame the telegraphing of passes and the overall inability to create offense. The only forwards I have been at all impressed with this year are Frattin, Hextall, Gregoire and Martens. Lammy is also a pleasant surprise.

Where is Vandy? Was Duncan a product of Oshie and Toews? It's really starting to look like it. How about Kozek's big year? Looks like he benefitted from playing with Oshie too. I bet the Thrashers are glad they didn't sign him after last season, unless they want a checker. He is doing a very good job hitting out there. Watkins, Trupp, Malone? nowhere, disappointment, and cut if I'm coach respectively.

It is virtually guaranteed now that we must win the FInal Five to make the NCAAs.

a few good points here, the duncan and VV and kozek is a big one. i bolded that last line as it is way too early to make that statement in my eyes. with the majority of wcha games still left anything can happen good or bad. will be interesting to see how this one pans out. cant wait to watch every weekend though

[siouxweet]

a few good points here, the duncan and VV and kozek is a big one. i bolded that last line as it is way too early to make that statement in my eyes. with the majority of wcha games still left anything can happen good or bad. will be interesting to see how this one pans out. cant wait to watch every weekend though

hey, I did the what if and if we alternate sweeps and splits starting with sweeping the gophers we'll have a shot at winning the wcha-there's some positivity.

[Siouxtimestwo]

My beef with the Defense isn't their ability to play defense, but their inability to transition the puck. I still blame Hakstol for this because of the high breakout. Short crisp passes up the ice, 5-10 footers, not 30-40 footers. I blame the inability of the defensemen (exception Genoway) to beat a forechecker one on one, and the overall inability to adjust the breakout depending on the oponents forecheck. We play our system, we do not adapt based on what's available. This is a recipe for disaster against well coached teams. Well coached teams will simply adopt a style that will give our system fits and hope for us to make a couple mistakes that they can score goals off of.

I also blame the forwards for not coming down to help out. I blame the telegraphing of passes and the overall inability to create offense. The only forwards I have been at all impressed with this year are Frattin, Hextall, Gregoire and Martens. Lammy is also a pleasant surprise.

Where is Vandy? Was Duncan a product of Oshie and Toews? It's really starting to look like it. How about Kozek's big year? Looks like he benefitted from playing with Oshie too. I bet the Thrashers are glad they didn't sign him after last season, unless they want a checker. He is doing a very good job hitting out there. Watkins, Trupp, Malone? nowhere, disappointment, and cut if I'm coach respectively.

It is virtually guaranteed now that we must win the FInal Five to make the NCAAs.

As I stated earlier in the thread, I agree with everything you said. Our defense isn't necessarily bad, but our defensemen aren't all-around hockey players by any stretch, except maybe Finley, who has developed since he came in as a freshman. Nobody skated harder than he did in Detroit, especially considering he was coming back from a concussion.

We cannot play in the neutral zone period. When we do control the puck, we are so predictable it's not even funny. Last weekend, MSU and MTU skaters knew exactly where the puck was going nearly every single time. When we did make a pass, it always seemed to be to a guy's backhand, so he was in position to do nothing. The first time all game UND was actually able to execute a one-timer, they scored. Until then, forget about it.

Again, it's not that they are out drinking or quitting on the season, they simply aren't good enough to be a top team this year. AZ, you're right that there are lots of WCHA games left, so UND still has a shot to make some noise, but is it likely? I don't think so. We've had turnarounds before, but that was when we had world-class players who had the ability to raise the level of play of the entire team. Who on this team fits that description? What we've seen is what we're more than likely going to get: inconsistency. One weekend, 2-3 players will look great while the rest of the team is invisible. The next weekend, 2-3 different players will step up, but again the rest of the team will under-perform. For the upperclassmen on this team, that is the story of their Sioux careers and the biggest reason the Bills might be the leading candidate for a new nickname. Duncan is the only exception, but let's face it, he is a very good player, not a Hobey Baker player without his NHL linemates.

[yzerman19]

What to make of Dave Hakstol...I know that there were some very influential people associated with the Sioux program who were not happy with his being named head coach. I also know that he has lead the Sioux to Four Frozen Fours. Are the Frozen Four trips a result of Dave or are could any decent college hockey coach have brought those teams to the Frozen Four?

2003-2004: The Sioux lose all-world forward Zach Parise and all-WCHA sniper Brandon Bochenski following a heartbreaking loss to DU in the regionals. The Sioux then lose Dean Blais and Brad Berry. David Lundbohm and Ryan Hale graduate. The Sioux, Gophers and Bulldogs all play a very fast, up tempo style with incredibly skilled players this year. Maybe one of the most fun years to watch WCHA hockey.

2004-2005: The Sioux welcome in new coach Dave Hakstol with a team of veteran defensemen. The Sioux defensemen are all big and have a nice mix of strong puck movers and strong body movers(3 defensemen from this team have seen action in the NHL). At forward, four guys have seen action in the NHL since graduation including Travis Zajac, Drew Stafford, Brady Murray, and Chris Porter. The Sioux ride the defensemen, some timely scoring, and "do it for Robbie" all the way to the finals only to lose to DU. This team was built ,on veteran leadership, tough defense and some young skilled players. Realistic expectation: NCAA regionals. Actual result: NCAA runner up. Team Exceeded Expectations.

2005-2006: THe Sioux lose some of that veteran leadership from the Blue Line as well as a surprising early departure in Brady Murray, but bring in an extremely talented class. Maybe the most talented team in Sioux history. The team includes 6 first round draft picks and 3 second round draft picks. Plus a smattering of every other round, a future Hobey winner, a European pro and a veteran goalie. Realistic expectation: NCAA Champion. Actual result: Frozen Four. Team Did not meet Expectations.

2006-2007: THe Sioux lose Stafford, Zajac, Spirko and Smaby along with many key role players and fan favorites, but expectations are high. The DOT line becomes the most feared line in NCAA hockey, Duncs wins the Hobey. Sioux have an NHL line, but are essentially a one trick poney. Realistic Expectation: Frozen Four. Actual Result: Frozen Four

2007-2008: The Sioux lose some role players to graduation and Toews to the NHL, but the rest of the guns make "the pact". Partly based on this hype expectations are very high, but depth is still lacking. JPL becomes one of the best goalies in the nation. Realistic Expectation: Frozen Four. Actual Result: Frozen Four.

2008-2009: No real top-end recruits (first rounders or World Junior players). Duncan, VV, Kozek and Finley looked to to lead. Realistic Expectations are for a top 5 WCHA finish. Actual Result is unknown.

Based on my mini-analysis above, you can see that when we take off the green glasses, stop thinking about the bad losses, and really evaluate the performance, Hak is averaging meeting realistic expectations given his players' ability. One year he overachieved, one year he underachieved, the other two were about right. So, based on his teams' on ice performance, Hak gets a B- from me. He didn't screw up, but he didn't do any spectacular coaching from my armchair vantage point.

Add in a couple other factors:

Blais was an exceptional hockey coach.

Blais recruited the best talent in North America

The Finger (unacceptable)

Andy Murray advises son to leave UND and advises other son to play at Wisconsin??? I know the euro clause and all, but really?

Some losses have looked like the guys didn't even come to play

What do we have?

A decent hockey coach who isn't the recruiter his predecessor was, who isn't a great ambassador of the school to the league or to the NHL, who doesn't get the boys fired up for the big game.

This sounds more like mediocrity than the Fighting Sioux Hockey Program.

GO ahead and blast me...I am ready

[yzerman19]

One more thing, the stupid cycle and high breakout is horrible to watch as compared to Blaiser's style of run and gun/

[brianvf]

All aboard the mediocrity train! It will lead us to the F4, but that's it.

[redwing77]

All aboard the mediocrity train! It will lead us to the F4, but that's it.

Oh goody!

Maybe we can get Glen Mason to coach our football team and whoever the hell coached the Gopher's men's basketball team (the guy before Tubby) to coach our men's basketball team.

Then we can get either Matt Millen or Kevin McHale to be our AD and name Red McCombs as UND President!

WOOHOO!!! ROCK ON!

[brianvf]

One more thing, the stupid cycle and high breakout is horrible to watch as compared to Blaiser's style of run and gun/

I agree that Blais' high tempo style was really fun to watch as a fan. Really made for some exciting up and down games when two teams ran similar styles.

Unfortunately now not many teams at all seem to utilize it.

[Goon]

I agree that Blais' high tempo style was really fun to watch as a fan. Really made for some exciting up and down games when two teams ran similar styles.

Unfortunately now not many teams at all seem to utilize it.

Actually if you watch the NHL a lot the league has evolved into to toned down version of race horse hockey.

Tonight my Bruins ran the Pens out of the building scoring 5 goals. So I would love to see college get away from these

trap feasts and play a more wide open game.

[Blackheart]

I just don't think we are that good this year...my God, you make the F4 four straight years, you are bound for a letdown...it would have been nice to win one of those but that's the current issue at hand...Replacement for Hak? How about Steve Johnson?

this year, we will likely have a playoff series on the road and be a 4-5 seed in the Final Five if we advance.

Not giving up on this year, but have not seen any consistency in this team yet. It used to be something called pride would carry us through a meaningless 3rd place game against Tech in the GLI, but that is not happening with this group yet. I remember playing the !@#$-sucking gofers in the 3rd place game at the Final Five a few years back...the Goofs mailed it in but the Sioux took it as an opportunity to make a statement heading into the NCAAs and whipped their asses and made a nice run in the tourney. Where's that kind of effort?

Go Sioux!!

[yzerman19]

DId Archie really have 37 goals and 197 PIMs his senior year? I loved the guy as a kid, but those stats are sick. If a top line player gets about 20 minutes of ice per game, Archie spent ten games in the box and still scored 37 goals. That is awesome.

[The Sicatoka]

What scares me is that "you won't notice a difference in style" comment (not an exact quote) when Hak took over. Hey, I do see a difference, and I don't believe for the better. The rules have been changed to favor "racehorse" and at times UND looks like it's migrating to a trap.

The other concern is this: All these guys are now here under the Hakstol regime. All of Blais' guys are gone. Is this Hak's ultimate design?

Alternatively, some blame needs to go toward the few "big guns" on the team: Misters Duncan and Vande Velde and Kozek are MIA in crunch time. (Boys, Miller and Martens, and a freshman named Hextall, have stepped up bigger than you.) Time to lead from the front.

PS - Matt Watkins, didn't you finish 8th in BCHL scoring one season, when Kozek finished 2nd and Duncan finished 3rd?

[brianvf]

this year, we will likely have a playoff series on the road and be a 4-5 seed in the Final Five if we advance.

Despite our horrible OOC record, we are still sitting ok in the WCHA standings, probably mainly due to other teams struggles as well. The Sioux are only 4 points out of 2nd place right now, with 2 games less played than every team in front of us except for the Gophers (both at 12 gp).

[siouxweet]

Despite our horrible OOC record, we are still sitting ok in the WCHA standings, probably mainly due to other teams struggles as well. The Sioux are only 4 points out of 2nd place right now, with 2 games less played than every team in front of us except for the Gophers (both at 12 gp).

we're also only 6 points out of first with 2 in hand and a series at home agianst denver in jan. bottom line is we have to start winning and winning games in bunches if we are to turn this thing around. I still go back though that our OOC record could possibly kill us as Denver finished 2nd in the WCHA a couple years back and was left sitting at home because of a poor OOC record.

[Goon]

we're also only 6 points out of first with 2 in hand and a series at home agianst denver in jan. bottom line is we have to start winning and winning games in bunches if we are to turn this thing around. I still go back though that our OOC record could possibly kill us as Denver finished 2nd in the WCHA a couple years back and was left sitting at home because of a poor OOC record.

Wasn't that also because they lost in the first round of WCHA playoffs to UMD too?

[Siouxtimestwo]

Actually if you watch the NHL a lot the league has evolved into to toned down version of race horse hockey.

Tonight my Bruins ran the Pens out of the building scoring 5 goals. So I would love to see college get away from these

trap feasts and play a more wide open game.

Great point. Ever since the NHL cleaned up their game after the work stoppage, the WCHA has actually been the least entertaining hockey league around, at least in regards to style of play. It is hockey at it's least pure. I think we all know who to thank for that.

[Shawn-O]

Actually if you watch the NHL a lot the league has evolved into to toned down version of race horse hockey.

Tonight my Bruins ran the Pens out of the building scoring 5 goals. So I would love to see college get away from these

trap feasts and play a more wide open game.

Hit the nail on the head Goon. The post-strike NHL game is a lot more entertaining than the clutch-and-grab fests we see every Friday and Saturday night in the WCHA.

[Goon]

Hit the nail on the head Goon. The post-strike NHL game is a lot more entertaining than the clutch-and-grab fests we see every Friday and Saturday night in the WCHA.

Yeah that is why I would rather watch the former Sioux playing in the NHL sometimes. I was watching the Bruins and Pens last night and that was some exciting hockey. Up and down the ice. I can't imagine why coaches want to coach this slow down the game and lets trap, trap, trap. I couldn't watch ECAC games on a regular basis because they are boring.

Watch the Detroit Redwings they play SMART defense and get the puck up ice every chance they get. The new Blackhawks are kind of exciting as well.

[Shawn-O]

Sioux-Gophers is usually good up-and-down the ice hockey, so let's hope for that next weekend.

[Goon]

Sioux-Gophers is usually good up-and-down the ice hockey, so let's hope for that next weekend.

Yes Sioux and Gophers, Sioux and Huskies, Sioux and Tigers. DU plays more of an uptempo game then they used to.

[brianvf]

I think we all know who to thank for that.

Toby Kvalevog?

[Kvasager]

What to make of Dave Hakstol...I know that there were some very influential people associated with the Sioux program who were not happy with his being named head coach. I also know that he has lead the Sioux to Four Frozen Fours. Are the Frozen Four trips a result of Dave or are could any decent college hockey coach have brought those teams to the Frozen Four?

2003-2004: The Sioux lose all-world forward Zach Parise and all-WCHA sniper Brandon Bochenski following a heartbreaking loss to DU in the regionals. The Sioux then lose Dean Blais and Brad Berry. David Lundbohm and Ryan Hale graduate. The Sioux, Gophers and Bulldogs all play a very fast, up tempo style with incredibly skilled players this year. Maybe one of the most fun years to watch WCHA hockey.

2004-2005: The Sioux welcome in new coach Dave Hakstol with a team of veteran defensemen. The Sioux defensemen are all big and have a nice mix of strong puck movers and strong body movers(3 defensemen from this team have seen action in the NHL). At forward, four guys have seen action in the NHL since graduation including Travis Zajac, Drew Stafford, Brady Murray, and Chris Porter. The Sioux ride the defensemen, some timely scoring, and "do it for Robbie" all the way to the finals only to lose to DU. This team was built ,on veteran leadership, tough defense and some young skilled players. Realistic expectation: NCAA regionals. Actual result: NCAA runner up. Team Exceeded Expectations.

2005-2006: THe Sioux lose some of that veteran leadership from the Blue Line as well as a surprising early departure in Brady Murray, but bring in an extremely talented class. Maybe the most talented team in Sioux history. The team includes 6 first round draft picks and 3 second round draft picks. Plus a smattering of every other round, a future Hobey winner, a European pro and a veteran goalie. Realistic expectation: NCAA Champion. Actual result: Frozen Four. Team Did not meet Expectations.

2006-2007: THe Sioux lose Stafford, Zajac, Spirko and Smaby along with many key role players and fan favorites, but expectations are high. The DOT line becomes the most feared line in NCAA hockey, Duncs wins the Hobey. Sioux have an NHL line, but are essentially a one trick poney. Realistic Expectation: Frozen Four. Actual Result: Frozen Four

2007-2008: The Sioux lose some role players to graduation and Toews to the NHL, but the rest of the guns make "the pact". Partly based on this hype expectations are very high, but depth is still lacking. JPL becomes one of the best goalies in the nation. Realistic Expectation: Frozen Four. Actual Result: Frozen Four.

2008-2009: No real top-end recruits (first rounders or World Junior players). Duncan, VV, Kozek and Finley looked to to lead. Realistic Expectations are for a top 5 WCHA finish. Actual Result is unknown.

Based on my mini-analysis above, you can see that when we take off the green glasses, stop thinking about the bad losses, and really evaluate the performance, Hak is averaging meeting realistic expectations given his players' ability. One year he overachieved, one year he underachieved, the other two were about right. So, based on his teams' on ice performance, Hak gets a B- from me. He didn't screw up, but he didn't do any spectacular coaching from my armchair vantage point.

Add in a couple other factors:

Blais was an exceptional hockey coach.

Blais recruited the best talent in North America

The Finger (unacceptable)

Andy Murray advises son to leave UND and advises other son to play at Wisconsin??? I know the euro clause and all, but really?

Some losses have looked like the guys didn't even come to play

What do we have?

A decent hockey coach who isn't the recruiter his predecessor was, who isn't a great ambassador of the school to the league or to the NHL, who doesn't get the boys fired up for the big game.

This sounds more like mediocrity than the Fighting Sioux Hockey Program.

GO ahead and blast me...I am ready

I have to strongly disagree with the bolded portion of the 2008-09 expectations. If you perused this site prior to the season, most posters were talking about taking the conference and making a return to the Frozen Four. The ONLY major question among our fans was how the goaltending position would pan out.

[sagard]

From a Gopher fan perspective:

2004-2005: The Sioux welcome in new coach Dave Hakstol with a team of veteran defensemen. The Sioux defensemen are all big and have a nice mix of strong puck movers and strong body movers(3 defensemen from this team have seen action in the NHL). At forward, four guys have seen action in the NHL since graduation including Travis Zajac, Drew Stafford, Brady Murray, and Chris Porter. The Sioux ride the defensemen, some timely scoring, and "do it for Robbie" all the way to the finals only to lose to DU. This team was built ,on veteran leadership, tough defense and some young skilled players. Realistic expectation: NCAA regionals. Actual result: NCAA runner up. Team Exceeded Expectations.

I thought this team should have been great and one of the best. Defense and goaltending weren't going to be an issue. Scoring can often be replaced easier than the blueline. Regular season grades poor, post season great with a nice Frozen Four win over the Gophs.

2005-2006: THe Sioux lose some of that veteran leadership from the Blue Line as well as a surprising early departure in Brady Murray, but bring in an extremely talented class. Maybe the most talented team in Sioux history. The team includes 6 first round draft picks and 3 second round draft picks. Plus a smattering of every other round, a future Hobey winner, a European pro and a veteran goalie. Realistic expectation: NCAA Champion. Actual result: Frozen Four. Team Did not meet Expectations.

Didn't think this team would be nearly as strong as the previous one. Nice WCHA tourney and Regional. Can't complain.

2006-2007: THe Sioux lose Stafford, Zajac, Spirko and Smaby along with many key role players and fan favorites, but expectations are high. The DOT line becomes the most feared line in NCAA hockey, Duncs wins the Hobey. Sioux have an NHL line, but are essentially a one trick poney. Realistic Expectation: Frozen Four. Actual Result: Frozen Four

I thought this team would be dominant. Disappointing regular season, great WCHA playoff (despite the Wheeler goal) and quick Gopher payback at the regional. Can't be happy with the Frozen Four performance. I thought UND was the best team in the Frozen Four.

2007-2008: The Sioux lose some role players to graduation and Toews to the NHL, but the rest of the guns make "the pact". Partly based on this hype expectations are very high, but depth is still lacking. JPL becomes one of the best goalies in the nation. Realistic Expectation: Frozen Four. Actual Result: Frozen Four.

Losing Toews was a big deal. Team looked pretty strong to me from start to finish. That game in Denver was a shock. Thought Michigan was the best team in Denver, but as it often turns out the goalie who plays best wins.

2008-2009: No real top-end recruits (first rounders or World Junior players). Duncan, VV, Kozek and Finley looked to to lead. Realistic Expectations are for a top 5 WCHA finish. Actual Result is unknown.

Team doesn't look as strong as any of the previous Hakstol teams to me. However I'm not dumb enough to count out a strong second half and a post season run. The WCHA doesn't seem that strong this year and the Final Five will be there for the taking.

[yzerman19]

I am stressing realistic expectations, not the expectations of the board.

I could agree with the switch in expectations on Hak's first two teams. THe first year I wasn't overly excited, because while we were awesome from the blueline back, losing GOD and Bucks left a huge 50 goal hole in the lineup. Remember that no one expected Toews and Oshie to be the studs that they were.

There are many NHL clubs that didn't have the draft picks that 05-06 team had.

I am surprisd that noone has commented on the Andy Murray aspect. This is huge. Andy Murray advises his highly skilled son to go to Europe under the guise of the foreigner clause, but then Brady ends up right back in the AHL after the strike. Then Jordy goes to Madison...how many little brothers have we lost? That tells me that Andy believed in Blais, but not in Hakstol. Andy is an NHL insider, and can definitely influence NHL prospect behavior.

This year's Sioux team has no upper echelon playmakers other than Genoway.

Duncs: Finisher

Kozek: Finisher

VV: Grinder with some skill

Watkins: Grinder with a little less skill

Frattin: Finisher

Trupp: Poor man's playmaker

Malone: Grinder with no skill

Hextall: Finsher with grit

Gregoire: Finisher, but potential playmaker

Toews: potential playmaker

The list goes on and on.

Love the team, program and guys. We just don't have the top end skill this year.