The Writing is on the Wall

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

As for REA refusing to cooperate with a possible name change, I am not a legal expert (nor do I have any desire to become one), but aren't the Fighting Sioux name and logo the legal property of the University of North Dakota? That is, anyone who wants to use the name and logo has to have the permission of UND or else UND can take action against said person or entity. So if the State Board decided to change the name and UND told REA to stop using the name and logo, REA would have a legal obligation to comply or face certain legal consequences.

I'm not a lawyer either: and while I realize there are differences between personal rights and corporate rights, I view this as akin to nobody being able to tell me

NOT

to wear my Chief Illiniwek shirt. Yes, the University owns that trademark but at one time they licensed it to a company to make shirts, and I bought said shirt in good faith. I'd say my rights are unlimited.

JMHO, but if those symbols/logos got into this arena with the University's permission, it would be awfully, awfully hard to win a lawsuit and force a company to spend money to remove them.

...Either the "settlement" was a complete shame...

Perhaps it's a typo: but either way I agree with this quote.

[rochsioux]

Really that would make sense on why they are in such a hurry to get this done. Maybe we need to wait and see how the election goes.

If they announce a nickname change anytime in the next year it is because they want to get rid of the name. They don't want to take the chance that a change in tribal leaders might lead to a more receptive climate to keep the Fighting Sioux name.

I still believe that the only real reason the state/UND sued the NCAA was to get a retraction on the university being "hostile and abusive". Once they got that they surrendered the lawsuit and almost immediately we saw press releases that it was hopeless to keep the name, the tribal leaders reiterate their opposition, we need to begin forming committees, this needs to be resolved quickly, etc.

Bunch of garbage. If you are really sincere about wanting to preserve the name then you take as much time as possible (3 years) to explore all possibilities, including the possibilty of tribal leadership changes. If there were any indication that the tribal membership as a whole was against the nickname then we are fighting a losing battle, but I don't believe that is the case. Changing the nickname right now under these circumstances and without using the entire 3 year period will only increase the bitterness and problems that will surely follow.

[rochsioux]

Perhaps it's a typo: but either way I agree with this quote.

fixed

[mksioux]

You are correct that the REA can't use the logo without consent to use it. However if the University does decide to change the logo i highly doubt that would require the REA to essentially remodel the arena. That is just crazy. I think the school would have to play in an arena with and old logo unless they could find a way to pay for the change. I think thats fair and am pretty sure Ralph had the upper hand when the contracts were written. If anyone at the school suggests to raise ticket prices to change the logo or any other way to pass the buck off to sioux fans they have some huge cajones. That is a horrible move that proves why they are in education and not business. I think we have a couple years to worry about football playoffs. I'm sorry if i pissed off people on this forum as it appears i may have earlier. I am a huge supporter and rarely feel like posting. I had a couple beers since the vikings game and felt so inclined to post. Please don't blast me i am on the same team.

I don't think you are pissing anyone off. It's just that you are a few years late to the conversation. For me, while it will be sad when the nickname finally goes, it's hard to worked-up about this issue anymore. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time.

Also included in the terms is a requirement to remove most of the logos at the Ralph Engelstad Arena, which is estimated will cost about $1 million. Arena officials have said that they will not pay for the potential removal costs.

I thought part of the settlement with the NCAA was that facilities did NOT have to remove the name and logos. Am I dreaming on this?

Edit: I went and looked at the settlement again. Items of historical significance like championship banners, team photos, the statue of the hockey player near the student entrance, and the Sitting Bull statue do not need to be removed. Also, the in-floor granite logos do not need to be removed. However, it appears everything else needs to be removed on a certain timeline schedule from 2011 to 2015.

[mksioux]

To the main point of the article, which is speeding up the decision process, keep in mind that the settlement only requires that UND begin to transition to a new nickname on Nov. 30, 2010 if tribal approval is not obtained. UND has until August 15, 2011 to complete that transition. I don't see the need for an immediate decision on this.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

I thought part of the settlement with the NCAA was that facilities did NOT have to remove the name and logos. Am I dreaming on this?

.

No your not dreaming. The settlement permits "permanent" logos to remain, but others have to be removed.

[mksioux]

.

No your not dreaming. The settlement permits "permanent" logos to remain, but others have to be removed.

Yea I went a looked at the settlment agreement again and edited my post.

[Sioux2007]

Really that would make sense on why they are in such a hurry to get this done. Maybe we need to wait and see how the election goes.

Does anyone know when the new election is for Standing Rock?

[GeauxSioux]

Lloyd Omdahl speaks to the Fighting Sioux Let’s drop albatross gracefully

If we wait until the last minute, the conclusion will not be graceful. Room for negotiation will be gone, and UND will be forced to accept a decision without being able to retreat with dignity or grace.

As a former logo supporter, I have concluded that it is time for “Fighting Sioux” logo diehards to recognize some immutable facts about the controversy.

For the NCAA, the logo challenge is just the first shot across the bow. If the issue isn’t resolved to its satisfaction, the NCAA will be back with more restrictions on the use of logos until the UND position becomes untenable.

As UND goes into Division I, it will encounter other schools that oppose American Indian logos. One or two schools have already expressed an aversion to playing teams with such logos. We are making ourselves vulnerable to a negative backlash by persisting.

Eventually, national organizations, such as the American Association of University Professors, will discourage faculty members from considering UND. If the organization takes formal action, UND will be the black pariah of higher education.

Whether you agree with him or not, he makes some valid points.

[Goon]

What we are really back to is the football again and we are willing to give up the name in hopes of getting a game against Wisconsin, Iowa or Minnesota.

Now mind you the chances of playing these teams is probably slim and none... That is the way I see it. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone but that is what it appears is going on. The Univeristy is strapped for cash and hopes it will get a big pay day by getting shelled by one of these teams in a pre-season game.

[The Sicatoka]

Did Omdahl really say ...

... the black pariah ...

Black?

I think Lloyd needs to be sent to an NCAA sensitivity re-education camp.

[johnsowe]

I do not like it but the only way for this thing to end is to change the name because the potesters will not give up. As soon as we change the name they will find something else to bitch about!! This problem is a small portion of what is wrong with America the minority controlling the majority. We have to change something because one person is not happy about it. Well I have news you can not make everybody happy!!

[ScottM]

I hate the prospect of changing the name/logo as much as the next guy, especially with a gun to our head. However, this has gotten to the point where UND is in a corner, especially with regard to the D1 move and revenue that may result. I see no point in pandering to tribal "leaders", the NC$$ or anybody else. Retire the name/logo on our own terms, let the chips fall as they may and move on.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

What we are really back to is the football again and we are willing to give up the name in hopes of getting a game against Wisconsin, Iowa or Minnesota. Now mind you the chances of playing these teams is probably slim and none... That is the way I see it. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone but that is what it appears is going on. The Univeristy is strapped for cash and hopes it will get a big pay day by getting shelled by one of these teams in a pre-season game.

My comment here is with the addition of the 12th game to schedules there are

plenty

of schools looking for an opponent to come to their place: while the distance your school may have to travel might be a little longer (Ames, Iowa or Champaign, IL) the paydays are out there.

[Goon]

My comment here is with the addition of the 12th game to schedules there are

plenty

of schools looking for an opponent to come to their place: while the distance your school may have to travel might be a little longer (Ames, Iowa or Champaign, IL) the paydays are out there.

I guess they could use those big pay days to pay for the logo removal...

[rochsioux]

Lloyd Omdahl speaks to the Fighting Sioux Let's drop albatross gracefullyWhether you agree with him or not, he makes some valid points.

Whether non-Indians see the logo as oppressive or not, it creates an aura of oppression that cannot be assuaged by our own pontificating. If someone is feeling harmed by the logo, it is not very ethical for us to perpetuate alienation and divisiveness

Huh?

So someone feels harmed by the logo. There is always a minority group that will feel harmed by something. Not too hard to believe he was a politician.

IMO, if we have to rush into a decision, then we should announce that we are going to continue to work with the tribes but at the end of 2010 if there is no agreement then we are going to keep the nickname and accept the sanctions. The NC$$ can blow it out their a$$.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

So someone feels harmed by the logo. There is always a minority group that will feel harmed by something. Not too hard to believe he was a politician.

I agree with the above, but the far more troubling comment IMHO is...

If someone is feeling harmed by the logo, it is not very ethical for us to perpetuate alienation and divisiveness

Please. Perpetuating alienation? C'mon.

If you added up all the broad jumps in the Olympics and substituted light years for feet you wouldn't equal the length of HIS jump to a conclusion.

And if a new logo is decided upon, I will be the first to tell this mope that I feel "alienated" and ask him when he will be writing a sophmoric column demanding the retirement of the NEW logo.

[mksioux]

What we are really back to is the football again and we are willing to give up the name in hopes of getting a game against Wisconsin, Iowa or Minnesota.

Now mind you the chances of playing these teams is probably slim and none... That is the way I see it. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone but that is what it appears is going on. The Univeristy is strapped for cash and hopes it will get a big pay day by getting shelled by one of these teams in a pre-season game.

UND doesn't need Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Iowa to get a big pay-day. You must not have heard about the Texas Tech game next year. There are still plenty of teams of FBS teams willing to pay UND for a game. Getting a pay day from an FBS team was clearly was not the reason for the settlement, and will not be the reason if UND drops the nickname.

Moreover, if the nickname is changed, the chances of playing Wisconsin or Minnesota in football is not "slim and none". You are obviously very unfamiliar with Division I football scheduling. Wisconsin plays Cal Poly this year. Minnesota played NDSU twice, Montana State this year, play South Dakota State next year, and is rumored to have scheduled South Dakota for a future year. Wisconsin and/or Minnesota scheduling UND in the future is a very real possibility...I'd even say likely.

Minnesota "shelling" UND in football? Obviously you haven't watched a Gopher football game lately.

And there are no pre-season games in college football.

Carry on...

[Chewey]

I agree with the above, but the far more troubling comment IMHO is...

Please. Perpetuating alienation? C'mon.

If you added up all the broad jumps in the Olympics and substituted light years for feet you wouldn't equal the length of HIS jump to a conclusion.

And if a new logo is decided upon, I will be the first to tell this mope that I feel "alienated" and ask him when he will be writing a sophmoric column demanding the retirement of the NEW logo.

Completely asinine. Who cares if the NCAA gave us 3 years. There is no hope and the tribes will Never, ever agree to anything so why waste time, blah, blah, blah. This guy used to be the second in charge in the state, if you can believe it. Goetz et all need to be told by the alumin association that "you will work for the whole of those 3 years to keep the name and the transition process, if any, will start at the end of that 3 year period."

[dmksioux]

UND doesn't need Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Iowa to get a big pay-day. You must not have heard about the Texas Tech game next year. There are still plenty of teams of FBS teams willing to pay UND for a game. Getting a pay day from an FBS team was clearly was not the reason for the settlement, and will not be the reason if UND drops the nickname.

Moreover, if the nickname is changed, the chances of playing Wisconsin or Minnesota in football is not "slim and none". You are obviously very unfamiliar with Division I football scheduling. Wisconsin plays Cal Poly this year. Minnesota played NDSU twice, Montana State this year, play South Dakota State next year, and is rumored to have scheduled South Dakota for a future year. Wisconsin and/or Minnesota scheduling UND in the future is a very real possibility...I'd even say likely.

Minnesota "shelling" UND in football? Obviously you haven't watched a Gopher football game lately.

And there are no pre-season games in college football.

Carry on...

I agree with your post, except for the Minnesota thing. Don't they still have a policy in place stating they won't play teams with Native American logos/mascots? Wisconsin had a similar policy at one time but then amended theirs...I believe.

Either way, there are teams that are willing to schedule UND regardless of their nickname...

[Goon]

Moreover, if the nickname is changed, the chances of playing Wisconsin or Minnesota in football is not "slim and none". You are obviously very unfamiliar with Division I football scheduling. Wisconsin plays Cal Poly this year. Minnesota played NDSU twice, Montana State this year, play South Dakota State next year, and is rumored to have scheduled South Dakota for a future year. Wisconsin and/or Minnesota scheduling UND in the future is a very real possibility...I'd even say likely.

Minnesota "shelling" UND in football? Obviously you haven't watched a Gopher football game lately.

Carry on...

Ok, make that "SLIM" then. The Gophers have basically said they don't want to play the FCS/Division 1AA teams anymore, I don't know if you remember that being discussed in the media.

Lastly I have watched 3/4 of Minneotas games this season and they are not the same team that got beat by the Bison. After watching YSU run over the Bison I don't think Minnesota would love to either the Bison or the Sioux IMHO...

[dmksioux]

Ok, make that "SLIM" then. The Gophers have basically said they don't want to play the FCS/Division 1AA teams anymore, I don't know if you remember that being discussed in the media.

Lastly I have watched 3/4 of Minneotas games this season and they are not the same team that got beat by the Bison. After watching YSU run over the Bison I don't think Minnesota would love to either the Bison or the Sioux IMHO...

Minnesota will continue to schedule FCS teams. The head coach may say one thing while their AD says another. Here is a link to a McFeely blog where he quotes both Bohl and Taylor about contacts they have had with the Gophers about a possible matchup in the near future.... http://www.areavoices.com/mcfeely/?blog=32888

According to the USD Headcoach, they have a game scheduled with the Gophers for 2010. Not sure if they would schedule UND due to their policy on Native American nicknames.

There was also a rumor that Wisconsin was trying to schedule UND this year, but UND didn't feel it would be ready to take on a team the caliber of Wisconsin this year. Not sure if it was true or not, but as stated earlier, Wisconsin did schedule Cal Poly.

With a twelve game schedule, there will always be FBS teams looking to schedule FCS teams...

[Goon]

Minnesota will continue to schedule FCS teams. The head coach may say one thing while their AD says another. Here is a link to a McFeely blog where he quotes both Bohl and Taylor about contacts they have had with the Gophers about a possible matchup in the near future.... http://www.areavoices.com/mcfeely/?blog=32888

According to the USD Headcoach, they have a game scheduled with the Gophers for 2010. Not sure if they would schedule UND due to their policy on Native American nicknames.

There was also a rumor that Wisconsin was trying to schedule UND this year, but UND didn't feel it would be ready to take on a team the caliber of Wisconsin this year. Not sure if it was true or not, but as stated earlier, Wisconsin did schedule Cal Poly.

With a twelve game schedule, there will always be FBS teams looking to schedule FCS teams...

I am seeing a lot of double talk in this article so you wonder what is the REAL line.

"They asked us 'What years do you need games?' and we gave them those years and they said, 'OK, we'll get back to you,'" Taylor said, adding Gophers boss Joel Maturi hasn't gotten back to him yet.

It sounds like some of the same issues that were raised last year when Gophers coach Tim Brewster said he didn't want to play FCS teams (mentioning NDSU specifically, even though he lied about that later). Maturi wants to play regional FCS teams, Brewster doesn't, blah, blah, blah.

[mksioux]

I agree with your post, except for the Minnesota thing. Don't they still have a policy in place stating they won't play teams with Native American logos/mascots? Wisconsin had a similar policy at one time but then amended theirs...I believe.

Either way, there are teams that are willing to schedule UND regardless of their nickname...

Iowa and Wisconsin rescinded their policies against scheduling UND once the settlement was reached. Minnesota did not. However, my post was responding to Goon's claim that it was doubtful Minnesota would schedule UND even if UND dropped its nickname.

[mksioux]

I am seeing a lot of double talk in this article so you wonder what is the REAL line.

Brewster does not want to schedule FCS teams. Maturi does. Maturi is the boss. So Minnesota will continue to schedule FCS teams, as evidenced by the fact they scheduled South Dakota after Brewster made those comments.