Blake Wheeler a free agent

[Goon]

I'll be the first to admit I can't be objective about NDSU football.

Come on now.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

How are you getting to work, now, NDH?

Sadly, I just finished paying off another vehicle after 60 months of payments. It is breaking down immediately. I swear that the manufacturers put either a 36, 48, or 60-month chip in those computers to make certain that a vehicle starts having problems as soon as they are paid up. I ain't going there. I am in the market for a Ford Fiesta. Or a '66 Chevrolet Biscayne.

[Rick]

Speaking as a Sioux fan who is objective about the Gophers, Wheeler was one hell of a college player and a thorn in our sides for the last three years. He may or may not be a good player in the NHL someday, but the fact that he rejected the Coyotes offer to become a free agent does not make him a bust. I've never heard of an athlete in any sport being labeled a bust prior to the start of his pro career.

Is there another Wheeler out there that I'm not aware of? The Wheeler I watched was one hell of a college player and a thorn in our sides for exactly one game. Your love for Blake Wheeler is clouding you judgement of his college career. I'm glad your not recruiting hockey players for UND because I'd hate to have 23 Blake Wheelers on the team. Maybe he could have been a good player in the Sioux program, but 90% of the time he didn't show up for Gopher games.

He rejected the Coyotes offer because for the next three years he was going to get paid $65K per year because they were going to keep him in the minors and not give him a sniff of a NHL contract.

[THETRIOUXPER]

so, it sure is funny how Vanek, a product of a sucky coach like Lucia, somehow makes more money than any player ever from UND. I guess for every player like Duncan, who regresses every year at UND, Minnesota produces a Vanek, who signs a $50 million dollar contract.

and, as far as Wheeler is concerned, anybody who doesn't understand why a NHL player would prefer to be a free agent, and pick his own team, and his own home town, and where he is going to live, and who his coach is, and his teammates, doesn't really understand anything. Wheeler thought these things were more important than money, something you don't usually see from many pro players.

Well, we will just have to wait and see, there is a kid named Johnny Toews who may eclipse what vanek got. That is if Chicago, or maybe someone else wants to pony up. You'll never convince me that vanek is a better hockey player or worth more than Johnny. If Johnny never gets that kind of dough it just goes to show you how over-inflated vanek's deal really was IMO.

[sioux7>5]

Well, we will just have to wait and see, there is a kid named Johnny Toews who may eclipse what vanek got. That is if Chicago, or maybe someone else wants to pony up. You'll never convince me that vanek is a better hockey player or worth more than Johnny. If Johnny never gets that kind of dough it just goes to show you how over-inflated vanek's deal really was IMO.

Hell I agree with you TRIOUXPER, I think Zach Parise should have got more money then he did too. I think he is better then Vanek.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

I could care less how Sioux fans(who are mainly the ones doing the bashing), fans of other teams, Twin Cities media members, etc. view the U of M. Until it starts hurting recruiting, which it clearly hasn't to this point, then I really don't care. Aside from last season, the team has been very successful in terms or raising banners over Lucia's tenure. If last season is indicative of what's to come, then yes, that's an issue. But as of now, I don't think the 2007-08 Gopher season will be the norm moving forward. Time will tell...

With the stories about Okposo leaving, possible lack of development for certain players under Don Lucia, and the Mike Guentzel fiasco, late season playoff "collapses", one has to believe recruiting will take a hit for your program. It might not show up immediately, but the next few years have the potential to be interesting for your school. Luckily for the U of MN-Twin Cities campus program, there are under 60 DI hockey schools out there, so there are only so many schools for blue chippers to consider.

[yzerman19]

The negotiation position that Wheeler is now in is unenviable. Free agency is great if you are a proven commodity, not if you are an unknown.

Also, precedent is at stake. NHL GMs aren't stupid. They realize that if they go out and sign Wheeler as a free-agent given this scenario, it incents other players to do the same. It would effectively invalidate the draft process, and result in the richest teams being able to go out and buy all the top young talent. Just what a league with 25% of its teams on the verge of bankruptcy needs.

If Wheeler signs for similar or more money with another team, every college player will do the same thing. It will change the market and raise the price for all players. Again, just what a struggling league needs. Imagine this scenario: Wheeler gets big money from another team as a free agent, a current NHL 3rd liner with 10 NHL goals/year making $600k per has a pretty legitimate argument at receiving at least 10x more money, as he has infinitely outscored Wheeler at the NHL level. The rookie deals are designed not to promote free agency, but to be able to compare apples to apples. unknowns to unknowns. Free agency compares knowns to knowns.

Furthermore,

In order to be signed for anywhere near $900k per, Wheeler is going to have to prove to a club that he is a better bet than one of their current top 6 NHL forwards AND a better bet than any of their first round picks over the past couple years who are still in their farm systems or NCAA or CHL.

Let's look at his resume:

Decent college numbers, but not spectacular. He's roughly a 0.78 point per game for his career in college. Again solid, but not spectacular. Numbers put him in the position to skate on an NHL 3rd or 4th line. Just like he was a 3rd team all WCHA this year.

He has not impressed at the WJC- #1 black mark in my opinion. When you look at the big time players who are NHL sure-things, they dominate at the WJC. Toews, Parise, Kessel, Erik Johnson, Jack Johnson, Dion Phaneuf, etc. Wheeler can play at that level, but is not a stand-out at that level. Again, he is 3rd or 4th line material among the best players in the world his own age.

He is big, but not tough. Does not play tough or fight, so he can not be looked to as a potential enforcer.

The NHL game no longer favors the big guys, but rather favors smaller, skilled players. The NHL changed from 4 years ago when Wheeler was drafted, and in the new NHL, his assets aren't worth as much as they used to be.

So, Wheeler is good. Respectable college numbers playing top competition and good enough to wear the red white and blue as one of the best players in the world his age. However, when compared to the best, he lands squarely in the 3rd or 4th line.

[Goon]

Thank you, Rick, for that shining example of the lack of objectivity among Gopher haters that I was referring to.

Dave do you work the night shift as well? Or do you just never sleep?

[Goon]

The NHL game no longer favors the big guys, but rather favors smaller, skilled players. The NHL changed from 4 years ago when Wheeler was drafted, and in the new NHL, his assets aren't worth as much as they used to be.

I don't know if I agree with that because the RedWings aren't exactly small and they have some big forwards that are damn good.

[sagard]

Unless Wheeler's adviser has done some homework (tampering by the NHL team) and has a commitment from someone to play Blake in around 40+ NHL games next season this was one of the most financially irresponsible moves I have ever seen. It's like tearing up a $600K lottery ticket or maybe spending all $600K on new tickets.

Blake is going to have to prove his value where ever he signs and if he was good enough he would have played in Phoenix.

Blake could have kept his options open. He could have returned for one more year of college and had the option of free agency or the Phoenix offer to fall back on. If he blew up next year like a Porter, Sejna, Pohl, etc... Pheonix would been begging to sign him and probably giving him the easy incentives some guys get.

[Sioux-cia]

Unless Wheeler's adviser has done some homework (tampering by the NHL team) ...

What does this mean?

[buckysieve]

Thanks Rick, it was Chucko who I was trying to think of earlier. Another big forward like Tallackson and Wheeler who didn't develop under Lucia and company. Eric Johnson had to leave early too so he could get proper coaching, forgot about that one already. Remember Jake Taylor? A few years of good development and he'd be a much better player now too. To an extent I am flaming the gophers because I really don't like them. Honestly though, there is enough material out there that Lucia and staff are not developing players adequately...I believe there are some pretty large problems at the U of MN-TC, and some healthy, mature dialogue about these problems is warranted.

He left because he was the #1 overall pick in the draft, the first #1 pick to ever choose to play college hockey. He was never going to play a second year and you know that but instead you choose to spin what actually happened to make it look like a black mark on Lucia's record. Had he gone to any other school in the nation he still would've been a one and done player.

[Southernmn]

Thanks Rick, it was Chucko who I was trying to think of earlier. Another big forward like Tallackson and Wheeler who didn't develop under Lucia and company. Eric Johnson had to leave early too so he could get proper coaching, forgot about that one already. Remember Jake Taylor? A few years of good development and he'd be a much better player now too. To an extent I am flaming the gophers because I really don't like them. Honestly though, there is enough material out there that Lucia and staff are not developing players adequately...I believe there are some pretty large problems at the U of MN-TC, and some healthy, mature dialogue about these problems is warranted.

So.....among all of those players that you have listed that have been out of the MN system for a while (Chucko, Tallackson, and Taylor), which of these guys has lit the world on fire since they had "good development" with better coaches ?

[sagard]

What does this mean?

Tampering would be another team telling Wheeler's adviser to explore the free agency route, because they would intend to sign him to big bucks with promised NHL time.

Not sure what exactly the NHL considers tampering, but I'm sure they have a rule that defines it.

[Sioux-cia]

Tampering would be another team telling Wheeler's adviser to explore the free agency route, because they would intend to sign him to big bucks with promised NHL time.

Not sure what exactly the NHL considers tampering, but I'm sure they have a rule that defines it.

If that happens, what type of repercussions does a player face?

[happy]

If that happens, what type of repercussions does a player face?

none, the team will face punishment, loss of draft picks, etc.

[happy]

Wow!!! I am really uninformed as to how pro-hockey contracting works. I had no idea that a player could pick what team he wants to play, where he wants to play, who his coach will be and who his teammates will be! How naive can a person be!?!

You clearly do not understand the business of NHL hockey. Wheeler is still considered a very good prospect, probably a late first or early second round draft pick. He is now a free agent, who will be signed to a CBA 2 way rookie contract. There is probably not a single NHL team who would not sign him for the rookie max, after all, if he is not good enough to make the roster, he only gets $62 grand, and plays for the AHL. and if he makes the roster, he is a bargain. And, if he really wanted to play some where, he can sign for less than the rookie max, and go to any team he wants. Wheeler went free agent for less money, so he must have a plan where he wants to play, and he will get to chose.

[happy]

The negotiation position that Wheeler is now in is unenviable. Free agency is great if you are a proven commodity, not if you are an unknown.

Also, precedent is at stake. NHL GMs aren't stupid. They realize that if they go out and sign Wheeler as a free-agent given this scenario, it incents other players to do the same. It would effectively invalidate the draft process, and result in the richest teams being able to go out and buy all the top young talent. Just what a league with 25% of its teams on the verge of bankruptcy needs.

If Wheeler signs for similar or more money with another team, every college player will do the same thing. It will change the market and raise the price for all players. Again, just what a struggling league needs. Imagine this scenario: Wheeler gets big money from another team as a free agent, a current NHL 3rd liner with 10 NHL goals/year making $600k per has a pretty legitimate argument at receiving at least 10x more money, as he has infinitely outscored Wheeler at the NHL level. The rookie deals are designed not to promote free agency, but to be able to compare apples to apples. unknowns to unknowns. Free agency compares knowns to knowns.

Furthermore,

In order to be signed for anywhere near $900k per, Wheeler is going to have to prove to a club that he is a better bet than one of their current top 6 NHL forwards AND a better bet than any of their first round picks over the past couple years who are still in their farm systems or NCAA or CHL.

Let's look at his resume:

Decent college numbers, but not spectacular. He's roughly a 0.78 point per game for his career in college. Again solid, but not spectacular. Numbers put him in the position to skate on an NHL 3rd or 4th line. Just like he was a 3rd team all WCHA this year.

He has not impressed at the WJC- #1 black mark in my opinion. When you look at the big time players who are NHL sure-things, they dominate at the WJC. Toews, Parise, Kessel, Erik Johnson, Jack Johnson, Dion Phaneuf, etc. Wheeler can play at that level, but is not a stand-out at that level. Again, he is 3rd or 4th line material among the best players in the world his own age.

He is big, but not tough. Does not play tough or fight, so he can not be looked to as a potential enforcer.

The NHL game no longer favors the big guys, but rather favors smaller, skilled players. The NHL changed from 4 years ago when Wheeler was drafted, and in the new NHL, his assets aren't worth as much as they used to be.

So, Wheeler is good. Respectable college numbers playing top competition and good enough to wear the red white and blue as one of the best players in the world his age. However, when compared to the best, he lands squarely in the 3rd or 4th line.

Wheeler is covered by the current CBA. Every college player has the same opportunity to be a free agent. Just wait 4 years. This is nothing new.

and, your comment that a "current NHL 3rd liner with 10 NHL goals/year " deserves to make $6 million a years is too stupid to comment on. try again.

[Sioux-cia]

You clearly do not understand the business of NHL hockey. Wheeler is still considered a very good prospect, probably a late first or early second round draft pick. He is now a free agent, who will be signed to a CBA 2 way rookie contract. There is probably not a single NHL team who would not sign him for the rookie max, after all, if he is not good enough to make the roster, he only gets $62 grand, and plays for the AHL. and if he makes the roster, he is a bargain. And, if he really wanted to play some where, he can sign for less than the rookie max, and go to any team he wants. Wheeler went free agent for less money, so he must have a plan where he wants to play, and he will get to chose.

You're right I don't understand the business of NHL hockey. It's hard to comprehend how easy it is for a free agent to pick and choose where he wants to play. I find it hard to believe that every NHL team or even half of them are going to make him an offer. I'm not bashing the kid, I just can't believe it.

[happy]

You're right I don't understand the business of NHL hockey. It's hard to comprehend how easy it is for a free agent to pick and choose where he wants to play. I find it hard to believe that every NHL team or even half of them are going to make him an offer. I'm not bashing the kid, I just can't believe it.

Wheeler is in a unique position. He is a free agent, but he will be covered by the CBA rookie agreement. As such, his salary and signing bonus is capped, and if he does not earn NHL ice time, he only makes $62,000. If he was a free agent, and his salary and signing bonus were not already artificially set low, I would agree with you, but the new CBA purposefully made rookies get really bad contracts, and that is one reason why the NHL has signed so many college players, it is really, really cheap to sign these guys. Phoenix offered him more money than any other team could, including a much bigger signing bonus, and Wheeler turned it down.

The key to rookies signing these bad contracts is two fold, do they get to play in the NHL, or do they make chump change in the AHL. Also, they are not going to make big money until the rookie contract is over, so many want to get a start on it, and get it over with. Sidney Crosby, without incentives, will make $850,000 dollars this year being Captain and leading the Penguins to the Stanley Cup finals. Next year, he will make $9 million. He does not become a free agent until 2013. The business of hockey, and all these things make a lot of difference, even if Wheeler isn't a great player at all.

[dagies]

Looks like Blake just wants a little more of mommy's home cooking.

[sagard]

Looks like Blake just wants a little more of mommy's home cooking.

That couldn't happen once he turned pro. No way to the Wild sign him let alone put him in the lineup without him spending four years in Houston.

[DAR]

That couldn't happen once he turned pro. No way to the Wild sign him let alone put him in the lineup without him spending four years in Houston.

If he signs with the Wild he will be a Houston lifer just like Danny "jersey popper" Irmen....Maybe they can be roomates eh??

[dagies]

That couldn't happen once he turned pro. No way to the Wild sign him let alone put him in the lineup without him spending four years in Houston.

I just had to say that for gopherguy33

[Sioux_Hab-it]

Clearly some posters to this thread have been drinking Happy juice. Plain and simple, Wheeler is the second coming of Jason Bonsignore. For those of you who are too young to remember this other flash in the pan, search him out on the internet.