Guentzel

[siouxweet]

All this talk by Sioux fans about the Gopher program imploding the last few years is just wishful thinking and nothing more. A program that's imploding doesn't win two Macnaughton Cups and a Broadmoor trophy, which by the way is three more banners than the Sioux have won in that time. The Frozen Four is great great but the only thing those appearances have resulted in is Hakstol becoming known as the new "Woog."

two more we won the broadmoor in 2006.

[buckysieve]

Personally I don't think Lucia is that great of a coach I think anyone could have won a national title with the two teams that he had. How long have we heard rumblings from time to time about players not being happy about lucia and his methods. I have to admist that I have enjoyed the implosions down in MPLS the last four seasons. When ever things are going bad for the Goofs the first thing people bring up is that Lucia won an NCAA title with a lot of Doug Woogs recruits.

This coming from someone who's teams coach has had four chances with great teams filled with NHL draft picks and he still couldn't get it done. To just blow off Lucia's accomplishment of winning back to back by saying anyone could have won it with those teams is just plain stupid.

[sagard]

You can call it an implosion. I'm sure your spot on. The Gophers should be winning National Championships every year. If not that at least winning the WCHA League or tourney title.

So here is what we are left for the uber talented local kids:

Play for Lucia. Get yelled at all season. Win either the WCHA league or tourney twice or more in your career. Maybe make a Frozen Four/win National Title, but of course HC/AFA/RIT is waiting to put you on youtube.

Play for Gwoz. Nice big city option. He'll pretty much have your back no matter what you do. You may get the boot, but at least you won't get ripped in the media.

Play for Hakstol. Great team. What is really nice is you don't have to show up until Feb for hockey. Your guaranteed a Frozen Four shot every year and if you don't run into DU or BC you'll get the big ring.

Play for Eaves. Just don't cross him and if your not worried about your parents falling asleep during games it's great.

Play for Owens/Jutting/Sandy/Motzko/etc....

This is the first time in a long time I think we all have to worry more about Jackson, Berensen, and York more than we need to worry about each other.

[Sioux-cia]

The Frozen Four is great great but ......

So, ask your team, "Which would you rather have, Macnaughton Cups/Broadmoor trophys or, win or lose, a trip to the Frozen Four?"

You'll be lying if your answer is anything but the F4.

[siouxweet]

So, ask your team, "Which would you rather have, Macnaughton Cups/Broadmoor trophys or, win or lose, a trip to the Frozen Four?"

You'll be lying if your answer is anything but the F4.

I want both

[skateshattrick]

This coming from someone who's teams coach has had four chances with great teams filled with NHL draft picks and he still couldn't get it done. To just blow off Lucia's accomplishment of winning back to back by saying anyone could have won it with those teams is just plain stupid.

I have to agree with Bucksieve. I'm not a huge Lucia fan, but to diminish his accomplishments by saying anyone could have won when he did is not fair. He's at least a great recruiter, if not a great coach. He proved it at CC before he came to UM. He won with a perennial loser at CC and took over a UM program that was reeling a bit in Woog's last years and turned it around quickly. I happen to believe Hak is a good coach also, but he did have great talent in 2006 and 2007. It is not easy to win NCAA titles, even with great talent.

[siouxweet]

I have to agree with Bucksieve. I'm not a huge Lucia fan, but to diminish his accomplishments by saying anyone could have won when he did is not fair. He's at least a great recruiter, if not a great coach. He proved it at CC before he came to UM. He won with a perennial loser at CC and took over a UM program that was reeling a bit in Woog's last years and turned it around quickly. I happen to believe Hak is a good coach also, but he did have great talent in 2006 and 2007. It is not easy to win NCAA titles, even with great talent.

that's 2 more titles than we have in that span. no small accomplishment.

[siouxguyinstpaul]

I think he means it's the team everyone loves to hate.

Actually - he means the team that has all the advantages. Yankees with their money and market place and the Gophs with their money and market as all their games televised - so the poor fans in St. Cloud, Mankato and Duluth ares stuck watching the gophs instead of their own teams - recruiting advantage? well - I for one think so. Of course the goph fans don't see this - they simply feel that they deserve it.

[siouxguyinstpaul]

1) One could argue that anyone could win a national title with teams Hakstol has had the last few years, but obviously that didn't happen. There are teams every year that have rosters that would indicate they could / should win a title, such as UND's the last few years.

2) "Implosions?" So, let's see: two regular season titles, one WCHA playoff title, All-Americans, etc. Yeah, the Holy Cross loss is terrible, and last season wasn't great (though they still made the most of things at the end when most people -- including myself -- thought they would go down without a fight).

And don't give me this BS that Sioux fans like to spit out about how the NCAA title is all that matters. Convenient excuse considering the lack of banners under Hakstol and the many that have been hung by the Gophers and other teams over that same time period.

3) Three of the four classes on the 2002 team were Lucia recruits. Obviously guys like Leopold and Pohl were big contributors and they were of course Woog recruits, but guys like Ballard, Taffe, Koalska, Riddle, Martin, etc. were Lucia recruits that made a huge difference on that team.

And, by the way, 100 percent of the players on the 2003 title team were Lucia recruits, so explain that one. Must have been the influence of Woog's recruits from the previous year that put them over the top, right?

of course - like the Yankees, they have all the advantages - hell, I could recruit for the University of MinnyMystery.

Pat is right - just take a look at it from the outside for a moment.

Anyway - good luck Mike.

Perhaps the next asst. coach will leave his D1 head coaching job (John Hill) to come here too - pretty easy work - if you don't have any ambition and simply want to be apart of the "Yankees of NCAA Hockey"

[mikejm]

I prefer to think of them as the U.S.S.R. of college hockey.

[buckysieve]

of course - like the Yankees, they have all the advantages - hell, I could recruit for the University of MinnyMystery.

Pat is right - just take a look at it from the outside for a moment

You don't think having the nicest arena in North America is an advantage?

[GeauxSioux]

You don't think having the nicest arena in North America is an advantage?

There is a nicer one somewhere else in the world?

[Cardinal]

One could make the argument that Woogs recruits were staples of the 2002 team since Leopold won the Hobey Baker Memorial and both players were major contributors on the score sheets as well.

I acknowledged they were good / great players, but look at Lucia's recruits on that team: Taffe, Riddle, Paul Martin, Ballard, Potulny, Koalska, etc. I know according to most people on this board they were hacks, they sucked, etc., but most fans would clearly see how good those players were.

Two great players doesn't make or break a team in a sport like hockey.

[siouxguyinstpaul]

You don't think having the nicest arena in North America is an advantage?

Oh - most definately and it certainly helps to bring some of the good Minnesota kids to UND - as opposed to an other Minnesota school - which is Pat's point. They all grow up watching the gophs because that is all there is - it is the first choice simply because of that and the exposure that will be received.

How many kids turned down a scholarship from the gophs to accept one at Mankato? Someday (perhaps) you all will realize the advantages you have - being the big town in the region. You probably already do - but consider it an entitlement.

We are very fortunate to have such an arena and it helps level the playing field - for us anyway.

[mikejm]

How many kids turned down a scholarship from the gophs to accept one at Mankato?

I think this would be a quite small number.

[buckysieve]

Oh - most definately and it certainly helps to bring some of the good Minnesota kids to UND - as opposed to an other Minnesota school - which is Pat's point. They all grow up watching the gophs because that is all there is - it is the first choice simply because of that and the exposure that will be received. How many kids turned down a scholarship from the gophs to accept one at Mankato?

We are very fortunate to have such an arena and it helps level the playing field - for us anyway.

The Gophers aren't the first choice for Minnesota kids simply because they are exposed to them more on TV. Yes being on TV helps but the main reason kids growing up in Minnesota want to be a Gopher is because of the elite status of the program which is something that the program has earned for over 80 years. Same with UND. The arena helps but for both schools the most attractive part of the program for a recruit is the tradition and in that regard Minnesota doesn't have any advantage over the Sioux.

[stickboy1956]

All this talk by Sioux fans about the Gopher program imploding the last few years is just wishful thinking and nothing more. A program that's imploding doesn't win two Macnaughton Cups and a Broadmoor trophy, which by the way is three more banners than the Sioux have won in that time. The Frozen Four is great great but the only thing those appearances have resulted in is Hakstol becoming known as the new "Woog."

Woog wasn't fired for not winning the big one. He was fired for having 2 horrible seasons after 12 winning seasons in a row. 14 years is a long run anyway.

Woog Stats

[burd]

I think UM has a fantastic hockey tradition, and I think Lucia deserves much more credit than he is getting here. More than that, though, I absolutely love seeing the gophs end their season with things like HC and Porter's OT coup de grace. They can't lose often enough, and if Lucia is ineffective in a way that causes them to lose more, he has my love.

[dagies]

burd, you opened my skull and took out a big scoop right there. Great post.

[burd]

burd, you opened my skull and took out a big scoop right there. Great post.

I hope we left just a little bit in there. Just in case.

[Greenbayguy]

The biggest concern with the underclassmen is that the UofM is becoming Wayzata East. The program is more about Tony and friends (Wehrs, Miller, etc.), than anything else.

Underlying issue between Guentzel and Lucia, was that young Guentzel and young Lucia were fairly even in talent. One had the opportunity to become a Gopher and the other became an Irish.

[WCHA-FAN]

So what do you think, is all well in gopherville. Or are you saying that there are no good gopher alumni who are qualified to be part of the coaching staff. And the firing of the most popular and only gopher alumni is a sign of things finally turning in the right direction for a program that is NOT imploding.

Who says that the person to replace Guentzel has to be a Gopher Alumni. Sure it would be nice to have a "M" guy behiend the bench.....but that (if you read the description for the job at www.umn.edu) is not required. There are many qualified people to take over as asst. coach no matter their alma mater.

As for saying that Guentzel was fired......well thats the assumption made by people. TECHNICALLY it will go down as a Resignation. Now I know that sometimes coaches resign but behiend the scenes they were given the options of A) resign or B) get fired. Most take the resignation rather that gettting fired for a few reasons.

#1 - It looks better for the University to have some one resign rather than getting fired.

#2 - It looks better on a resume to have resigned from your position than to get canned.

[Cardinal]

The biggest concern with the underclassmen is that the UofM is becoming Wayzata East. The program is more about Tony and friends (Wehrs, Miller, etc.), than anything else.

Underlying issue between Guentzel and Lucia, was that young Guentzel and young Lucia were fairly even in talent. One had the opportunity to become a Gopher and the other became an Irish.

Tony Lucia has certainly proved his worth over time; add to that the fact that he had offers from the likes of New Hampshire, Michigan, and Notre Dame, and he's not on the roster just because his old man is the coach.

In addition, Wehrs was just fine last year as a freshman who will be a four-year guy, and he also had offers from good D-I schools, including UMD and (I believe) BU. North Dakota also recruited Joey Miller, so he's got to have some talent, no?

Applying that same logic, I'm sure Guentzel's son could have played for Minnesota and done well; why he didn't end up here I don't know. But, don't use the "Wayzata East" logic because all those Wayzata kids have either proved their worth and/or were recruited by other top programs -- including UND.

[gordwiser]

Lucia has only had 2 teams with losing records in 21 years of coaching. 13 NCAA appearances, 3 top three finishes in addition to 2 titles. We're still talking about young adults dealing with school, girls, hormones, being away from home, all the issues of adolescence... so many intangibles that make a loss on any given night infinitely more possible. Diminishing his coaching ability is stupid... he is a good coach. Same with the detractors of Hak. Not winning it all? It's hard to win it all, and his coaching career is far from over. All teams have players that like/dislike their coach. There were plenty of players that despised Blais, too. UMN and UND have two of the best in the business, period.

[Greenbayguy]

Tony Lucia has certainly proved his worth over time; add to that the fact that he had offers from the likes of New Hampshire, Michigan, and Notre Dame, and he's not on the roster just because his old man is the coach.

In addition, Wehrs was just fine last year as a freshman who will be a four-year guy, and he also had offers from good D-I schools, including UMD and (I believe) BU. North Dakota also recruited Joey Miller, so he's got to have some talent, no?

Applying that same logic, I'm sure Guentzel's son could have played for Minnesota and done well; why he didn't end up here I don't know. But, don't use the "Wayzata East" logic because all those Wayzata kids have either proved their worth and/or were recruited by other top programs -- including UND.

Not questioning talent levels, just the fact that the issue is a concern for "some" underclassmen. It is difficult enough when the head coaches' son is in the locker room, but when you add a number of his friends it can lead to dissension. Not that difficult to imagine if you think about it. Perception and reality aren't always the same thing.