ScottM Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I tend to think Lucia and Blais are a lot more similar than many of us Gophers fans would like to think. The primary difference is that Lucia is a lot more camera/press friendly than Blais appears to be. I agree that Blais and Lucia are pretty similar. Very successful, competitive and they aim to keep it that way. Blais is probably more surly if you watch him on the bench. I don't think Donnie's facial expression changes too much. That said, I think a player makes a choice dependent on a number of factors including coaching, facilities, teammates, school, system, etc. It's likely many are also concerned about playing time, but I'd guess the better players have enough confidence to believe they'll earn their rights to hit the ice. I can't imagine the specter of getting cut or a reduced ride factors into their thinking. If if does, maybe those are the guys who leave early for any number of reasons, except due to draft position/$$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawkota Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I have said hard work in practice/games, attending class, getting good grades and obeying school rules are what they should be judged on. I just differ from some on here about whether or not a kid ought to have his scholarship yanked just because the coach miscalculated how the player would perform in college games. If the hard work is there but the stats aren't great, I don't feel that is an adequate enough reason to let a player go. I'm just curious, when has Blais done this? I agree with you on these points but I'm struggling to find a situation where Blais pulled a scholarship on a player who displayed these qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammy Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Yes, I guess I see your point now....if Erickson wouldn't have been such a screw-off, if he would have kept his grades up, if he would have been accountable, if he would have been willing to work for his position...then I'm sure a coach of Donnie's integrity would have kept him around. You mean just like Blais did with Quinn Fylling? Check the facts. Erickson's scholarship is waiting for him if he wants to come back. He only left because he couldn't get the kind of ice time he sorely needed. His scholarship was never taken away and he could have stayed had he chosen to. If you are gonna try to make Lucia look bad, you may want to at least try doing it with a player that isn't quoted as saying he respects the program and where the coach says he can return with the same scholarship he had before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammy Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I'm just curious, when has Blais done this? I agree with you on these points but I'm struggling to find a situation where Blais pulled a scholarship on a player who displayed these qualities. My points are more aimed at some Sioux fans who talk about "Blais should cut this guy cause he sucks" more than I am saying Blais actually does it. I don't have enough first hand knowledge to say whether he has or hasn't done it with some of the departing players (though I do tease some Sioux fans about it cause it does ruffle their feathers). You have to admit, there have been more guys leaving the Sioux program for unexpected reasons than most clubs which does raise an eyebrow and make you wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 You mean just like Blais did with Quinn Fylling? Exactly, just like with Quinn Fylling. The only difference is that Quinn came back. Blaiser stuck with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I don't have enough first hand knowledge to say whether he has or hasn't done it with some of the departing players (though I do tease some Sioux fans about it cause it does ruffle their feathers). You have to admit, there have been more guys leaving the Sioux program for unexpected reasons than most clubs which does raise an eyebrow and make you wonder. hmmm, in your past posts you indicate you have this knowledge. If I get time I'll repost them. I don't think it raises that many eyebrows. Maybe two or three in the TC Metro area. It certainly doesn't raise mine or make me wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawkota Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 You do more than tease Hammy, you have strongly insinuated in other threads on other boards that Blais does this. I thought that maybe you had some actual knowledge but you have now admitted that you do not, your "raised eyebrows" notwithstanding. Is this is a common technique of yours, to make a bold statement and then back away with a "I'm just rustling feathers" comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammy Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 You do more than tease Hammy, you have strongly insinuated in other threads on other boards that Blais does this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammy Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Exactly, just like with Quinn Fylling. The only difference is that Quinn came back. Blaiser stuck with him. And Erickson can as well. That door was still left open for him. It is up to him to walk through it or go elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OETKB Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 There had been a point in time in which I did think it was OK to get rid of a guy for not cutting it. But I talked to a player's mom once and after hearing her story, I changed my opinion on the topic. I guess I started to see the family/player's side of it a little more rather than thinking like a selfish fan who only cared about winning. So I do admit to my opinion having changed on the topic over time. Well, this is all well and good "yippee skippee" talk for a program that is just coming off two years of championships. However, I remember a day, not to distant, when the UM fans were saying "All the excuses have been used up..." Please, let's throw the UM fan bias away for the moment and remember the reality of the topic as it applies to UND today (and UM tomorrow). If your program has gone from dominant to hopeful, you need to make adjustments. Period. Fans need to remember that this program and the effect on the Grand Cities is paramount in order of importance. I absolutely love the fact that a third of the team this coming season will be ND kids. Obviously, UND has had an impact on youth in G.F. I'm sorry, but individuals who don't show that they can develop under the program don't deserve to keep their scholarships. That is the harsh reality of free money. If they want a 4 year guarantee, they had better be Zach Parise or go to Canisius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 So let me get this straight, if I have an academic scholarship and I work hard, but fail to make the academic standards, It shouldn't get it taken away just because I worked hard? Wait a minute, that's not what your saying, if I am an athlete then I should get special treatment and continue to get my school paid for because I am doing enough in the clasroom, even though I am not performing up to standards in my sport? Am I getting warmer? I can go and work just as hard on the ice as anyone on the team, so should I get a scholarship? No, you know why?? Because I am not as good as they are and I wouldn't produce as much as them. That's reality. They are getting money to play a sport while in school, if they don't play well, they shouldn't get money...end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Hammy I'm sure I'm one of those guys you speak of who gets their shorts in a bunch but I'm sure of one thing, when you do it you are not "teasing", you and some others have your core beliefs and you are not afraid to share them in any forum possible. I enjoy your knowledge of the game and in certain things you are insightful, but you have your bias and you are trying to play your maroon and gold hand any time you can. Your motives are clear. Should friends, family or actual recruits at any point be reading these boards, they're bound to run across a post by Hammy. In it they will find out that Blais cuts players at will (seemingly) and that Blais will ruin goalies. I know you will deny this. I know we'll get a bunch of rhetoric about putting words in your mouth, etc. I know by saying this I'm opening myself up to significant criticism from which it will be your word against mine. I know it will be difficult for me to have time to find your posts to create a record of how I am basing my opinion. Much of this is because this opinion is based on a history of discussions with you on 3 different boards. This is why I'll say this on our board, but no where else. I'm in "my" house, and I feel more free to say what I feel. I will grant that at times I believe you are trying to ask a legitimate question. However, your M.O. is so well known that it gets hard to seperate your legit questions from your propaganda. You are subtle enough not to say much of this directly, but anyone paying close attention knows what you are doing. Call a spade a spade. I just did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammy Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 So you are saying I should receive a pay check from the U athletic department for PR work or something? No worries dagies. We can agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 You do more than tease Hammy, you have strongly insinuated in other threads on other boards that Blais does this. I thought that maybe you had some actual knowledge but you have now admitted that you do not, your "raised eyebrows" notwithstanding. Is this is a common technique of yours, to make a bold statement and then back away with a "I'm just rustling feathers" comment? You've nailed Hammy here, as has dagies. Everything in Gopherville is lilly white, everything Sioux is underhanded and disgusting. When called back off and double-talk, or this newly created "just teasing" or "ruffling feathers". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagard Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Everything in Gopherville is lilly white, everything Sioux is underhanded and disgusting. I really like this. If any recruit is reading this, just ask Dean and Don what the scoop for years two, three and four is. And don't listen to a damn thing Coach Eaves has to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 And don't listen to a damn thing Coach Eaves has to say. Not sure that even the BADger players listened to a damn thing he had to say I guess seeing as how I, like the majority of people, am paying for college through loans, I have no sympathy for a guy who doesn't earn his scholarship and I don't feel that they should continue to receive money if they don't live up to their end of the bargin. In athletics it's playing well and producing, in academia, it's maintaining good grades. If you can't live up to the standards set...pay for it like the rest of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handyman Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 It is tough for me to have any sort of opinion on this subject. On one hand, I totally get what Hammy is saying in that if the player is doing everything he can academically, is on his best behavior at all times and works his but off in games and practice it is tough to agree with him or her getting the axe in an amateur setting. I just have this hatred of the idea that college athletics are turning into a "win at all costs, second is unacceptable" situation. It just will never seem right to punish a player for doing his best and just falling short. (assuming he is doing everything right) On the other hand, I am a student currently who for a couple semesters actually had to pay his own way through school without the aid of loans or scholarships. I dont like the special treatment athletes get and never will because it is a crock. These kids get for free what everyone else pays for and some take it for granted. They get the chance to play sports as a means to a better future...that is enough of a perk to justify them giving 100%. If they dont, or if they dont live up to the expectations that come with a scholarship they should be replaced by someone who will. No matter what both sides of this argument have a legit beef. It isn't cut or dry/black or white...each case is different. If it were up to me, I would probably not cut the kid if he was getting the grades and doing everything I asked of him. If I needed the scholarship money, I would find some other way to keep the kid in school (legally of course) financially. I think a kid like that can be a great example, especially for the stars of the team. That is just me though. Like I said before, I dont begrudge any coach the right to do what is in his teams best interests. I may not agree and may even criticize but I wont tell him or her what they can or can't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Yes, I guess I see your point now....if Erickson wouldn't have been such a screw-off, if he would have kept his grades up, if he would have been accountable, if he would have been willing to work for his position...then I'm sure a coach of Donnie's integrity would have kept him around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammy Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Everything in Gopherville is lilly white, everything Sioux is underhanded and disgusting. When called back off and double-talk, or this newly created "just teasing" or "ruffling feathers". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 So I believe the concensus here is that if a player: - "keeps their nose clean" outside of school - works hard in the classroom/goes to class - stays eligible academically - works hard in practice - helps his team on the ice in games (be it scoring or another role, even off-ice*) the player should stay on the roster. Fair enough. Tough to disagree. However, do we know all of these things about any of the players (of any team) in question? Do we know everything that happens off the ice in a player's life? I'd guess far from it compared to what their coaches know. Do we know if players attend class and work hard at school? Not unless you sit in the room with them (as a fellow student or instructor). Do we have the grades of players? I hope not, or academic confidentiality died a little more today. (The most we should ever know is "eligible" or "ineligible.") Do we all attend every practice to see how hard they work? Dare I say, no. What do we see? The stat sheet at the end of a game. We base what we think we know from that, and, ultimately nothing more. We see a sliver of the total picture. The coaches see the total picture. You have to trust the coach's judgement. That's what they were hired to do, namely, make judgements, on an annual basis. * For example, David Hale's presence at games during his illness as a moral support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I havent posted in this forum because its all been said. But I must give a big Ditto to the Sic on that one. A scholarship is by no means a binding contract for a player to play 4 years of hockey. It is an agreement that is voidable by both parties involved. The school/coach agrees to pay a cetrain percentage of a students tuition in exchange for his athletic abilities. If the student were unwilling or not able to compete long term there is no reason to pay for an education. P.S. if any one wants to know I drove from Lincon, Ne to State College Pa in one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 P.S. if any one wants to know I drove from Lincon, Ne to State College Pa in one day. I thought you said you could get all the way back to NJ in 18 hours...or did you now try to get that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I tried but there was traffic and construction and what not so I gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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