The Commodore Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I think this letter writer is just as much a homer as the original columnist. Rather than just putting down the Wild's opponent, he wildly and ramblingly derided everyone who happens not to have made it this far in the playoffs this year, including a lot of players and teams with a lot more success and history than the Wild. I said I thought the letter was interesting, not unbiased. He's a total homer and I don't think he should be criticized for it... because he's writing this letter as a private correspondence to Kiszla and not as a public column to be read by millions. I singled out the Belfour potshot because I didn't want this to turn into a pro/con Belfour thread... you're totally right about the number of potshots he takes and I'll get to that in a minute. Regardless of that, Kiszla said at one point that Lemaire has taken everything great and wonderful about this game and put it in a straight-jacket.... not an exact quote, but pretty close. That's the comment that really incensed the guy who wrote this letter. What's great and wonderful about this game is the degree to which TEAM must come before individuals in order to bring success. Sakic, Forsberg, and Roy make more money than the entire Wild team. And they probably deserve it, because they're incredible hockey players. But the Wild's coaching and administrative staff has taken what's great about this game and liberated it. The money and the superstar ego are what puts it in a straight jacket, if containing what's wonderful about this game is even possible. I'm not advocating that every team retool their roster and building philosophy to exclude high-priced superstars and focus on developing hive-mind collective teams like the Wild, by any means. I love to watch the big superstars play... but don't criticize the Wild for their philosophy. The unpretentious, team concept demonstrates how much hockey is intrinsically a team sport. And as an added bonus (in this last series, anyway) it allowed us to beat the Avalanche. The potshots were the result of this guy trying to deal with Kiszla on his own terms. He doesn't walk around our workplace slamming other people's favorite hockey teams or players and I'm sure he would have left out most of the potshots had he been writing his letter to post on a discussion board like this one. But more than coming off as a general jacka$$, Kiszla is flat-out wrong about the Wild. And I think a sports journalist with his clout should have a little more integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commodore Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 And incedentally, I think his comments about the Eastern Conference were wrong. The Western Conference has Calgary, Nashville, San Jose, and Columbus which are just as bad as the cellar dwellers in the East. Plus I think with Detroit and Colorado eliminated, the East has a better chance at winning the cup than the West does, anyway. I don't know why he included Washington with Carolina and Florida.... I'd sure as heck rather face most teams in the West than Washington on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 And incedentally, I think his comments about the Eastern Conference were wrong.You see it all the time in all sports -- it's fun to be winning because you can declare yourself the best and you can accuse anyone who dares point to contrary history of living in the past (remind you of some fans of any college hockey team ) It's indisputable that the West has dominated the Stanley Cup playoffs since the new conference format. These things happen, remember when the NFC had that streak of dominating the Superbowl? As of now, the West is winning more championships in the NHL, indisputably. However, to think that's a permanent imbalance in power is ignoring history and setting oneself up for future disappointment. I don't know why he included Washington with Carolina and Florida.... My favorite team being on the list to deride really had nothing to do with my response; I agree that the SE is the weakest division in the NHL. In fact, a lot of people credit part of the West's recent dominance of the Stanley Cup to the fact the SE represented the East in 2 of the last 5. (Though I shudder to imagine the riots in Minneapolis if the Wild do as well as the derided Canes did last year). About Washington, even though the Caps have made 17 of the last 20 ( ) playoffs, I also have to admit that they always manage to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted April 25, 2003 Author Share Posted April 25, 2003 ...but who on the Wild hasn't earned the right to wear his sweater in the playoffs? Name one. I challenge anyone to find a player on that roster that hasn't committed himself 100% heart and soul to this season. I challenge because I know the answer. There isn't a man amongst them that doesn't belong there. The is the best statement I have read in a long time...The Wild were saying for a long time that they wouldn't make any last minute trades or acquistions because they wanted to go into the playoffs with the same team that got them there. Hat's off to them, so far it's worked. I would also like to make an interesting side not on this subject. Bob Ryan berated the NHL just before the trade deadline because he thought it too late in the year, and teams were buying Stanley Cups. Then he goes and says that the Wild winning the Colorado series is bad for the game of hockey when they were one of, if not the only, teams to not make any late season acqusitions for the post season. But then again, nobody on that show (Around the Horn) knows anything about hockey...the last three days there were hockey topics scheduled at the end, and Kellerman gave the sweep in the showdown, so as to skip it...Somebody needs to tell him that there is no major sport that requires the all around skill and toughness that hockey does. I also agree with his assesment on the firing of coaches in the NHL...to often it is the players mistakes and shortcomings that get blamed on the coach. I was shocked when the Avs fired Hartley for the early season slump, and hope they don't fire Granato for the playoff loss to the Wild. Also, what was with the Boston Bruins firing Robbie Ftorek right before the playoffs and naming their GM as coach. While I don't think that they would have beaten New Jersey any way, I have to think that they would have given them a better series than they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 '...the State of Hockey...' '...Minnesota nice....' I can't begin to describe my distaste for the quoted phrases. Another two of my least favorites are 'the U' (as if the University of Minnesota is the only university in the history of the universe... rrriiiiiiight...),and 'Minnesota's Pride on Ice' (gag). There are some nice things in MN, but the self love that some of the natives indulge in is a bit much. If it's such a great place, why do they feel the need to continually remind everyone of it? Let it stand on its own merits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 DamStrait Posted on Apr 25 2003, 01:16 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE (The Commodore @ Apr 24 2003, 04:04 PM) '...the State of Hockey...' The Wild handed out thousands of "State of Hockey" flags last week. I was one of approx 19,000 at the Wild game when the original "State of Hockey" flag was raised to the rafters of the X. Tears of appreciation in many eyes. Minnesota is obviously the "State of Hockey". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawkota Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 The Wild handed out thousands of "State of Hockey" flags last week. I was one of approx 19,000 at the Wild game when the original "State of Hockey" flag was raised to the rafters of the X. Tears of appreciation in many eyes. Minnesota is obviously the "State of Hockey". I believe the overuse of the phrase in your post is exactly the point of DamStrait. Nobody doubts the claim, it's just annoying to have it stuffed down your throat. It's also borderline pretentious, which is so un-Minnesotan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commodore Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Nobody doubts the claim, it's just annoying to have it stuffed down your throat. It's also borderline pretentious, which is so un-Minnesotan. ...or, it IS Minnesotan. At the risk of derailing this thread, "Minnesota Nice" is a myth. I'm not saying that people here aren't nice, but living here for the past 6 years, I haven't found that people here are any more polite or friendly than anywhere else. It's impossible to offer anything better than anecdotal evidence for either side of the argument, but the whole "Minnesota Nice" thing seems to me to be a sort of confidence-crutch. It's whipped out whenever people feel threatened that they're living in a sub-par state or city. They've got Fenway Park or Hollywood or Miami Beach, but people here are nice. Again, there are heaps of nice people here. But I only hear the phrase "Minnesota Nice" in defensive situations when people feel threatened. Sort of like "State of Hockey" is a passive-aggressive stab at Detroit's "Hockeytown." The pretentious part comes into play in that passive-aggressive manner. These phrases, while instilling a source of pride to many fans/residents, also instill this source of pride at the expense of "outsiders," attempting to show that "Minnesota's better," which, for whatever reason, is a major hang-up of a lot of people who live here. And that's pretentious. To claim that being pretentious is so "un-Minnesotan" is to have bought into the "Minnesota Nice" myth in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWG Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Another two of my least favorites are 'the U' (as if the University of Minnesota is the only university in the history of the universe... Haven't been to other major university areas? Michigan does the same thing in regard to the University of Michigan as well. And there are probably others. Its just a nickname, Minneapols doesn't really roll of the tounge so well. The other schools go by their city name, but they're a lot shorter than "Min-ne-ap-o-lis" And when I say the UofM people think I AM talking about Michigan most of the time. I don't think its meant to be arrogant. Ahhhhh the U.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmduf Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 The Wild handed out thousands of "State of Hockey" flags last week. I was one of approx 19,000 at the Wild game when the original "State of Hockey" flag was raised to the rafters of the X. Tears of appreciation in many eyes. Minnesota is obviously the "State of Hockey". Minnesota may produce more hockey players at the higher levels than any other state. Possibly they have more high school (age) players than any other state. But I would tag Michigan as the hockey state of the union. Easily more D-1 championships than any other state, and with the Red Wings, more Stanley Cup champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 lawkota Posted on Apr 25 2003, 03:27 PM I believe the overuse of the phrase in your post is exactly the point of DamStrait. Nobody doubts the claim, it's just annoying to have it stuffed down your throat. It's also borderline pretentious, which is so un-Minnesotan. This thread is basically in support of the Minnesota Wild per the Denver Post smack against the Wild. State of Hockey is the motto of the Wild. Wild score, back to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted April 26, 2003 Author Share Posted April 26, 2003 Haven't been to other major university areas? Michigan does the same thing in regard to the University of Michigan as well. And there are probably others. I'm sure people in Ann Arbor call the Univercity of Michigan the U. As people in the Twin Cities call the University of Minnesota the U. And both, again I'm sure, call it the U of M. I've also heard the University of Manitoba called the U of M, and the University of Illinois called the U. The fact is that it is not just a Twin Cities thing, the locals of any major university probably call it the U, or State, or Tech. As far as Michigan being the hockey state of the union...how wrong could you be. can you make an argument for them? Yes, but I do feel that Minnesota is the best hockey state in the country. Did Howard Cossell and ABC ever cover the Michigan State High School Tournament (I'll go out on a limb and say no, though I don't know for sure), because they covered the Minnesota state tourney. Both are great states for hockey, but you can't judge it on number of championships, because there probably weren't very many native Michiganites on the team (college or pro), so you can't really chalk it up to the state. Remember that the Red Wings are an original six team, they stopped winning Cups for a while when the league started expanding. A lot of great players come out of the states of Michigan and Minnesota, but I think Minnesota is the best hockey state around. I know I am sounding like a Gopher fan, but being a former Minnesota hockey player, I feel I have to stick up for what is right in this case. You know what I would love to see...The Class AA State Champion of Minnesota take on the highest class state champion of Michigan...I'd be a great game for sure. By the way...what a great game tonight against Vancouver...even thought the Wild didn't win, I thought the game was played pretty evenly throughout...If Manny would only have been able to cover that puck for a few more nanoseconds, I think we would have gotten a whistle, and the game wouldn't have gone into OT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Heck... I have heard people in Grand Forks refer to UND as "the U". While its not a common moniker in Grand Forks I have heard it used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 I went to the game Monday night, as well as the first home game in the Avs series. A buddy of mine has seasons 7 rows behind the Wild bench. I have never been so annoyed by so many "hockey ignorant" people in my life. They make the corporate "stiffs" at Mariucci, and now probably REA, look sharp. "State of Hockey" is a nice marketing slogan, but it sure as hell doesn't represent the vast majority of the state's population, Wild "fan" base or the media. Give me a good college hockey, or even most Minnesota HS hockey, crowd any day over these clods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leifolson Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 I went to the game Monday night, as well as the first home game in the Avs series. A buddy of mine has seasons 7 rows behind the Wild bench. I have never been so annoyed by so many "hockey ignorant" people in my life. They make the corporate "stiffs" at Mariucci, and now probably REA, look sharp. "State of Hockey" is a nice marketing slogan, but it sure as hell doesn't represent the vast majority of the state's population, Wild "fan" base or the media. Give me a good college hockey, or even most Minnesota HS hockey, crowd any day over these clods. I think, though, that this is something you're going to find at most professional arenas, not just from Wild fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 The one thing I have found with Major Pro arenas is the fact that the lower the seat, the higher the cost the less educated the fans with the money to afford the seat. There are exceptions to that rule so no one get pissed, but the real fans cant afford 100 buck a seat at a Hockey game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 I think, though, that this is something you're going to find at most professional arenas, not just from Wild fans. Probably true. However, I find it annoying to have "State of Hockey" plastered all over the X, only to have it filled with fans who don't know what forechecking is. Well, then again, sometimes the Wild doesn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 flatspin7 Posted on Apr 26 2003, 02:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The one thing I have found with Major Pro arenas is the fact that the lower the seat, the higher the cost the less educated the fans with the money to afford the seat. There are exceptions to that rule so no one get pissed, but the real fans cant afford 100 buck a seat at a Hockey game. This is true, the company I work for has season tickets in the lower bowl and a corporate suite. Employees win tickets in a lottery format prior to the season. Many of the winners are going to their first hockey game. My season tickets have been in the upper level in the corner. It gets a little better up there. The State Hockey Tourney is not much better than Wild games. The center of the lower bowl is filled with Athletic Directors and School Officials. The Athletic Director from the School my kids played hockey at was never seen at a regular season hockey game. He was at most of the Football and Basketball games though. Even the students are gradually being pushed to the upper levels. After saying all this, these people are paying the same price to attend the games, they just enjoy them at a different level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 ...or, it IS Minnesotan. At the risk of derailing this thread, "Minnesota Nice" is a myth. I'm not saying that people here aren't nice, but living here for the past 6 years, I haven't found that people here are any more polite or friendly than anywhere else. It's impossible to offer anything better than anecdotal evidence for either side of the argument, but the whole "Minnesota Nice" . Myth, I don't know, I think it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leifolson Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I traveled extensively last summer with my job. I think the people all over the USA for the most part are nice except for maybe New York city, seriously before you jump down my throat, I swear every other word out of their mouths starts with an "F" and ends with a K, I heard a lot of yo-yos too... I had one person ask me where the hell I was from. Pretty sure they don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I don't know...Jim came and visited me a few times and maybe he had a different experience as a visitor, but that was what I got living there for a couple of years. Traveling from DC to NY isn't really a huge change of culture -- both cities think they're the center of the universe . Having spent a lot of time in NYC as a tourist (visiting Leif!) and on business since Sept. 11, I find it every bit as nice as anyplace else. Rather than niceness being regional, I think some people perceive a difference in niceness between urban and suburban areas. I attribute that perception to a different pace of life. The urban areas in which I've lived have had people every bit as nice, but who seem in more of a hurry, are a little less patient in some ways, and so are perceived as "less nice" to people from more suburban or rural areas. I have also lived in Minnesota for a couple years (Twin Cities) and didn't notice people to be appreciably "nicer" than anywhere else. I guess it all depends on your frame of reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyeagle Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I have also lived in Minnesota for a couple years (Twin Cities) and didn't notice people to be appreciably "nicer" than anywhere else Get bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leifolson Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Green and red? They look like Christmas trees to me. nothing wrong with christmas trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Get bent. Are you sure your not from the East Coast? I'm Born and Raised New Jersey!!! You got a problem with that Ill break your kneecaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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