JohnboyND7

This might be the most ridiculous argument I have seen in some time. And I, have been the instigator of many ridiculous arguments ( see about half the threads I have posted in.) DaveK, I understand where you are coming from in that I think the tight ones look weird. But that is what the style is nowadays. Tough luck chuck. Everyone else, Dave won't change his mind. he is very opinionated and sticks to his guns. No point trying to argue about who is right about which ones look cooler. it is entirely subjective. Maybe instead of arguing about it, you can figure out if the helmet will still be a different color of green than the jersey Oh! And while I am at it, I will say I think All-Black Uni's look ridiculous unless Black is one of two primary colors (see Texas Tech.)

Who cares what it was founded on? That isn't what it is anymore. (Though that is an impressive lineup of teams no doubt, too bad they couldn't keep that together). Division 1 wrestling does have 95 teams as opposed to...58 or 60? It has some D-III teams I believe you are right, but the vast majority are D-I. The powerhouses are all D-I as well I believe. Which is more than hockey can say. Not that it really matters. I do not follow wrestling a whole lot anymore. Can we not get into a pissing match on this crap guys? I take the bait every time and people just end up mad instead of discussing CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT.

It'd be worth it I suppose. Just to laugh. And it is fun to watch people stuck between a rock and a hard place.

They really should. I don't see any shame in it. It isn't like they have other options. They could find out what winning feels like again.

Al Carlson is doing it as a powerplay. Not to benefit NDSU. Please.

Well then I guess I am joining in. I haven't complained about the cost to the taxpayers. I know plenty of NDSU folks have, many of them I believe are the "Vote Yes" people. I want the schools to play some sooner or later, I'd rather the state not get involved, and so far they have done a nice job staying out of it. I of all people, wouldn't complain too much if it came up often. I get so much entertainment out of this show that has been going on for years that I am willing to let the exceptionally wealthy state of North Dakota's taxpayers pay for it. I'm totally with you guys that voting yes is the right thing to do, it is the only thing that makes sense for the school, for higher ed., etc. But this is a trainwreck I can't quit watching and if it can go a little longer, I'll be happy to watch. I feel very bad for those who have wanted it gone from the start of the NCAA policy. I feel pretty bad for those who were willing to accept a name change after November 2010, I don't feel bad for those who waited until the recent Spirit Lake decision to jump on the Namechange bandwagon, and I just think people like DaveK and Fetch might need to go to Jamestown for psychiatic testing at the State Hospital.

Funny story about our 8.8% tuition increase is even with it, NDSU students only by $83 dollars more per year than UND students. I think we can live with that. No reason for the state not to give more money. Until NDSU gets fargo representatives on our side though, that sadly probably wont happen. Other threads for this sort of discussion. Anyone have an idea where Seattle and Denver will end up if the WAC fails altogether?

Believe it or not, things such as UND's attitude towards NDSU back in 2003 will affect how a small group of people vote. By small, I mean very small. If you don't help out someone else, don't expect them to help you. What do I have to gain by voting yes?

I dislike UND. And friends and family who are UND fans want them to keep the name. Plus, it is really fun watching people dig their own graves. So I'd like for all the people who love the Fighting Sioux nickname above all else to see what happens when they are forced to keep the name. I do not want to stick it to the NCAA. I have no problem with the NCAA's policy. A bit overzealous and they have bigger fish to fry, but their club, their rules.

Have to spend money to make money. Chapman....really miss that guy.

If I vote, I'll vote no. But the chances of me cutting time out of my day for something like that really doesn't seem too likely. Is that good enough for you? Remember, O'Keefe, Kelley, Hakstol, all of them are lying!!!!! LONG LIVE THE FIGHTING SIOUX!

I am aware of the series record in my lifetime. You are correct, less than favorable for the Herd. But tough luck I guess, rivalries go in cycles. I picked fifty years because it is a number everyone relates to, someone had done the math, and it its very close to the amount of time the Super Bowl has been around. Also happens to be around the time NDSU found out football was a fun sport to be better than other schools at. The timeframe for all opponents is edited. For me, football at NDSU starts in 1963 when NDSU got Mudra to come coach. Anything before that is not really Bison football. Similar to how anything before Coach K isn't really Duke basketball, anything before Chuck Noll isn't Steeler football, etc. I surround myself with what types? Not really following you here. If you explain, maybe I will understand what you are getting at.

Comparing an indian head logo to timeless works of art....pathetic and unintelligent.

I told you guys it wouldn't last long! Regardless, my post above will show I don't only look at times of success. When I tell people I like Notre Dame football, I don't brag up the "Glory Days" of Rockne. I bring up the Weis, Willingham, and Bob years unfortunately. I don't want to turn this into some dumb debate about which school is better, which it is dangerously close to becoming. Both sides can make valid points and that is good for the rivalry. Just wanted to point out things that could impact a select few voters. Maybe the Spirit Lake court decision thing will start to impact more voters. I just think it will end up being too little, too late. Too many people like Dave and Fetch out there in my opinion.

I am proud of anything that happened during peoples lifetimes. Example...Notre Dame won a ton of titles in the 30's and 40's. I as a Notre Dame fan, think that is cool, but I am not going to brag about it. The 70's and 80's are when I would be proud of Notre Dame. I am happy they were good way back in the day, but that doesn't change the fact it is irrelevant. During my lifetime, USC has been a superior football school to Notre Dame. Therefore, I view them as the better football school. North Carolina has a huge edge on Duke in basketball victories. They are at the very least equal as far as basketball schools because of when a ton of those victories took place. And I do not see what is wrong with using what people have taught me. Isn't that how people and technology advance? What would have happened if the guy who taught Einstein math got mad at using that math for something.* I found it interesting to see that UND was a roadblock in NDAC becoming NDSU. gave me just another reason to vote the way I will. The other things I pointed out, were things I was aware of. And yes Sioux83. I take bait on a consistent basis. The hook is only caught on my lip though, I think I'll be ok. * disclaimer: I am in no way comparing anyone on bisonville or myself, to einstein. Maybe Hawking...but not Einstein

Ok, so is NDSU's old snorty logo a cartoon? I mean...it represents the Bison team that I have loved since I was born. Is Notre Dame's Irish logo a cartoon? It represents the spirit of the IRISH! Answer: Yes. They are both cartoons. I like the cartoons. I buy apparel (hats mostly) with them on there. I smile when I see other people with them. Does that mean they aren't a cartoon? Nope. They certainly are cartoons.

In the last 50 years, NDSUs had a +8 margin on UND in football wins. NDSU proved that it could not only compete with UND, but control a rivalry as well as do well on the national circuit (championships) that UND always struggled with. Another thing to take into consideration when dealing with NDSU fans, is that UND has done some less than classy moves over the years. In 1958(or 56), they managed to block the NDAC from becoming NDSU. Nearly succeeded in 1960(or 1958) but failed. Becoming something other than an Ag. school was a huge step forward for NDSU that would not do anything other than allow for another major (and completely different) school in North Dakota, and UND felt threatened by that? UND refused to schedule NDSU in sports after 2003. Football, I can understand why UND wouldn't, I still would have played but that is just me. NDSU going to Montana in 2003 when we were still D-II eligible I believe, may have killed our playoff chances, but I think if you ask anyone who is a Bison fan, they will tell you that that win (which turned the ship around) was worth more than going to the playoffs. The other sports had no reason to quit playing. It is not like NDSU immediately gained a huge advantage regardless, it takes a bit of time for those scholarship advantages to start kicking in. UND has no reason to have much for bad blood with NDSU other than NDSU's success on the football field. NDSU as an institution, as an alumni base, and as fans have plenty of reasons to not help UND at all. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, a big reason I will vote NO is because literally almost all of my UND friends and family really want to keep the name and take the consequences that go with it, and because if NDSU was faced with a situation where one option clearly helps the institution, and one option clearly hampers it, I believe UND's track record clearly shows they are more than happy to get in NDSU's way. In no way does that mean I think all of you would vote a certain way, but UND hasn't set a precedent of any sort of support for NDSU when we could use it, I do not see why I should feel inclined to support a University that could have put an issue to bed a long time ago but instead, buried it's head in the sand.

I don't know what else you would call it? It is a drawing. I don't see how that, or any other logo that was drawn of a mascot, is not a cartoon. Please spare everyone some weird spiritual meaning that a drawing of an indian head is "more than a drawing/cartoon." Regardless, DaveK and Fetch have went off the deep end. Actually they did a long time ago, but oh well. I reckon they are nuts anyway. Off topic question...whatever happened to Star2City "The Prophet of the Carolinas?"

Then wait for the nickname people to get the constitution changed. I imagine a lot of people happy to put UND in the constitution.

No doubt, around the time UND loses a couple of games this fall everyone will hate me again. Funny story, my Grandma was his babysitter. DaveK is certainly not Rocky. My Grandma wouldn't let someone be that out of touch with reality.

Oh My God.

I'm making friends on the siouxsports board. Oh dear.

I nominate best response post I've seen in a long time on SS. jodcon has it right. Loss of attendence. Loss of fans due to poor atmosphere at games due to poor product on the field due to blackballing by other schools due to the nickname. Loss of students to the school. Like it or not, guys especially like to go to schools that have good sports. I have heard that as a result of the championship this year, NDSU got a lot of applications they weren't expecting. Could just be a rumor, could be a fact. At the very least, a decent chunk of students want to go to a school where athletics is relevant, and a UND with the nickname would not be relevant in sports. Even hockey over time would at the very least take a step down and be an average-good team rather than an exceptional one. A major reality sanction that a lot of people on here wouldn't like.. NDSU completely dominating all sports and fans in North Dakota. Any young people on here who are starting families now will have to deal with their children's generation being NDSU fans simply because "The AC" is getting all of the best kids, playing in significant games, and have fun games to go watch. Which I know would break a lot of hearts and cause premature aging for lots of you guys on here.

One would imagine that this will become a trend of schools everywhere sooner or later. The Big Sky too is noticing these things. Starting to feel even worse for the UND fans. This is a real blow to the nickname folks though, stuff like this might help some North Dakotans vote yes. So maybe I don't feel so bad for the UND folks. Regardless of if it is a win or a loss, UND's reputation is still getting dragged (or drug?) through the mud.

SDSU could have an official statement and they'd still say O'Keefe is a liar.