Csonked Out

i think we all saw this coming for awhile now, i just hope that lammy will become more consistent as the full time starter

Someone close to the parise brothers said there are currently 5 teams that are talking to him, I believe he said one of them being the devils, the other 4 i'm not sure of. We'll just have to wait and see i suppose.

He hasn't signed because undrafted free angent can't sign until i believe July 1st, not quite sure on the exact date, but expect an announcement in the next couple weeks if he leaves.

I dont know why everyone is so surprised about why the exploritory year is 07-08. If UND wanted this year to be the exploratory year, we would of had told the NCC by december, since that wasn't done, the only option was to wait a year. I also believe that recruiting wont be hurt at all by this. In almost all sports freshman redshirt their freshman year, so really only this years class that has already commited will be affected. Their isn't a rush to get into this, one year longer will not affect our conference affiliation, because we will most likely be an independent for at least 2 or 3 years, until we prove ourselves, and increase our RPI ratings. Its not about if we get into a conference first, its about what is best for this University, and yes sometimes this means having NDSU get into a conference first. I would rather take is slow and have a decent amount of funds in order, than to rush into it only to fall flat on our faces. If everyone can let go of the UND vs. NDSU thing, and look at the situation from the Universities stand point it might make more sense.

I personally am a supporter of the nickname and am hoping this is a successful lawsuit, but i would have no problem of a change of nickname. But there are multiple ramifacations to changing the nickname, and the biggest one in my eyes would be the amount of Native American Programs. Right now there are about 425 native american students and roughly 26 programs, or 1 program for every 16 students. Does anyone really think these will continue to have the kind of support, if say for instance we were the UND fighting wolverines. My guess is these would be the first programs on the chopping block. Not trying to rip on anyone, but that would most likely be the case. It also appears to me that a lot of the native americans that don't support the nickname, were once for it, but not anymore because of the constant questions they receive about it. I'm of the feeling that if the Sioux tribe is against it then change it, but until that happens leave it. When Florida State got approved they only used the seminoles opinion, so why was the case different here at UND? What I would like to see would for us to win the lawsuit, and then announce we will start a fund raiser over a 10 year period, to study, and finance a name change. The difference would be that it would be on OUR terms and OUR timeline, not rushed like the NCAA would like. The name may change but in a lot of eyes we will always be the Fighting Sioux. Their are more important things that the University does that goes overlooked everyday, lets start concentrating on those, but for now lets kick the NCAA's ASS!

When I say its a state matter i'm saying we're going through the state board of higher education for advice, it means our state seal has american indian imagery on it, not that we are using the attorney general or that the state is payin for it ya tool. We have already received multiple offers for free legal advice from lawyers around the country conerning this matter, so if we win they get a piece of the pie. Know your information before you begin to insult everyones remarks aff. No universities are going to team up on a lawsuit because each lawsuit will be contingent based on what the NCAA has told each university, no case will be exactly the same.

Oh and by the way The University of Illinois has not yet ruled out the lawsuit, they just aren't joining UND because if we do sue, ours will be a state matter

A lot of people are missing the point about why UND wants to fight this in court. Its a matter of respect, UND produces 25% of the native american doctors in the Nation, has over 30 programs for native americans, offers extra money to Native Americans, and the list goes on. I for one am proud of all of the programs and extra opportunities provided, a lot more institutions could take a few notes from UND. That being said i'm not saying Native Americans, or for that matter any minority are free of discrimination at this University or any university, their will always be those few shallow minded people who feel that way. Why is this important to us you ask? In the minds of many people now, when they hear UND they don't think of any of the facts I have stated, they think of the 2 main words the NCAA labeled us with and that is Hostile and Abusive, without ever visiting the campus. This turned the whole situation very personal for a lot of people, because now we feel as though we're targeted at being a racist. For 99% of us hear that is not the case, and it should be very understandable. No one reacts kindly to be called a racist, and if that is stated or implied the fight does become personal. Now i'm not one to argue that we have a reputation to uphold, because a reputation can change in a moment, but myself along with most people on this board know the kind of character that this institution represents, and that what is important. Our goal is to get the message out to the rest of the world to make a point, whether we win the lawsuit or not, the University of North Dakota is a school that is proud of every students heritage, we celebrate it with pride and respect with every reference to the university, that is what we our fighting for. "REPUTATION MAY ONLY LAST A MOMENT, BUT CHARACTER MY FRIENDS LAST A LIFETIME." Did Dr. Kupchella's words seem professional or polictically correct, of course not. At the same time I would not call them immature, this fight is personal, and at some point the Political Correctness must stop. What he said can't hurt us anymore in the NCAA's eyes than takin them to court in the first place. I can guarantee you they will remember us in a much more negative way by suing them, then by some letter written out of anger and frustration.

Think of UND as a business instead of just athletics and the answers start to become more clear. The first thing to remember is that we are doing this because of what schools such as NDSU, SDSU, and Northern did, without these schools going D1, UND would not be considering it. With the declining young population in North Dakota, competition is becoming even stronger between these schools to recruit students. With NDSU's success at the higher level goes prestige and popularity, which are two major issues that effect student enrollment. So it is true that if UND goes D1 it will hurt a lot of sports chances of winning titles for a long time, but by not going D1 UND is going to lose not only the recruiting battle, but the student battle. NDSU's growth has greatly increased since its D1 move, and that has slowed UND's growth along with UND's new academic standards, something has to be done to not fall behind, and that is the truth. As for the questions that you mentioned Title 9 will not effect UND at all because we have already made the necessary adjustments to fall in compliance by adding women's hockey. As for the economics of everything that is a little tricky to understand for most of the general public, because most of the public doesn't have in depth knowledge of the economic system and how it works. It is true that hockey is the bread and butter of UND economically speaking. The program is always in the green and makes up a lot of losses from other sports that will never make UND money. The reason that UND is in the red is because of the women's hockey program. Every year scholarship numbers are increasing while ticket sales are usuaully very minimal, so this sport alone is costing UND a lot of money, but it must be kept to keep in compliance with Title IX. The bottom line is 95% of all colleges don't rely on athletics to make money, because it is very hard to do, and UND is actually sitting very comfortably right now. For instance, the University of Minnesota has been in the red a total of $55 million over the past 5 years, and their athletic budget is a hair of $50 million a year, so lookin at that UND suddenly appears to be in very good shape. As much as everyone doesn't wanna hear this, the General Public really doesn't have a lot to do in this decision. Its about what is best for the University in the long run, and if the people in high up places (pres., alumni, coaches, etc.) Feel that we will be missing out on valuable students and competition, then UND will go even if more people in GF are against it than for it. Another thing to consider is the cost of D2. UND has to travel farther and farther every year to play teams, and with the minimal recognition of D2 the payoffs just aren't there to cover these extra expenses anymore, so why not pay an extra $1 million or so to go D1, because the money benefits for playin bigger teams, along with tournament money have the potential to make up these losses. Think of it this way, say you wanna buy a brand new Chevrolet Cavalier but the price is going up to $17-18,000 instead of $14,000. Then you realize for just $2,000 more you could have a brand new corvette. With a difference of only $2,000 it suddenly becomes very affordable as apposed to the $6,000 from before. I know this isn't a realistic example, but by thinking of it in an over simplified way such as this, the economics of going D1 become a little bit more clearer for the general public. As for the Engelstad it operates similarily to how the metrodome and the twins operate. The family owns Engelstad not the university, so UND doesn't get all of the profit from the arena. This is why the twins wanted a new stadium, so the team would get all of the profits. But with the gorgeous arena this is a different situation for UND. The team/University will never be able to maximize profit in the arena because the University doesn't own it. Another very important question to ask is, would we rather be nationally known in 2 or 3 sports at a D1 level, or win titles in D2? On a national scale a D2 title is minimal compared to if NDSU's basketball team made the NCAA basketball tournament. The press coverage alone would be huge. As for conference affiliation, until UND states its intentions, their wont be one. UND will travel a very similar path that NDSU did. We must prove ourselves in order to get into a conference, and thats the reality of it. The only chance we would have, and this would still be slim would be if a conference took NDSU, and felt we would be a great travel partner, but that will be the only way UND will get into a conference immediately.

This is a very important topic to a lot of people and with the amount of flaming going on i'm going to do my best to give a neutral viewpoint on the situation, even though i am graduating from UND this fall. NDSU took a big risk in 02 when they went D1. At the time the NCC was still the powerhouse in D2, and their wasn't really a reason for anyone to leave. Then NDSU, SDSU, and Northern Colorado left, and the face of the NCC changed. With these teams leaving it dropped the number of teams from 10 to 7 as we know, with no replacements in site. 4 years later, the gamble these 3 schools took is now starting to pay off, and UND does not want to fall too far behind in the transition. This is tough times for UND because had the 3 previously listed schools not gone d1, we wouldn't be having this discussion today. To analyze this situation, one must look at it in the long term benefits and costs, and not the short term. Their will be money lost in the first 3-5 years because of increased traveling expenses, higher salaries, recruiting, scholarships and such, but in the long term things can change. Here are a few questions. 1) Where would UND be in 10-20 years if we stayed D2? - the answer is simple, we would fall even further behind! The signs are already starting to show that NDSU is gaining more recognition, is winning the recruiting battle in ND, and is successful in its d1 transition up to this point. If UND is startin to fall behind 4 years in, it isn't going to get better, but only worse. 2) Why move D1 now, Why not let our weak programs build and then move? -Every school is not successful in every sport, so one must look at the major sports. Football, we have been a national powerhouse for the last 5-10 years, and as NDSU proved, we can be competitive imediately upon moving. Hockey, we are already d1 in the sport and have won 7 national championships, no worries here. Basketball, this one is tricky. While the women's program is as strong as ever, the mens is struggling, but with a new coach in place, as well as new assistants it wouldn't be a stretch to see imediate improvements. We can't forget just 10-15 years ago, the men's team was a force in D2, so the team does have a tradition of success. As for all of the other sports, in terms of economics they are minor. If a University can sustain its main athletics and be successful at them, having a bad softball or soccer team where matter nearly as much. Just look at NDSU's baseball team, they barely won this year, but it didn't matter because their football team was Nationally Ranked, and their mens basketball team beat a top 25 team in wisconsin (Congrats on that by the way). This viewpoint may get ripped on a bit, but the major sports are the real money makers, and in building a successful program, those are the first ones to be looked at. 3)Do we have the facilities to move d1? - Unlike the SU's this is a major advantage for us at UND. UND already has a top hockey arena in the world, as well as having a football stadium that is easily good enough for D1-AA. We are currently trying to raise $35 million for upgrades such as an indoor track, new practice field for football and so on, so facilities wise, UND could make the transition fairly easily. 4) This one is for AFF so enjoy Why would UND want to move D1 now when it can even come out ahead in D2? - Their are a few answers for this. The first is that in the last 5 years UND also started a D1 women's hockey team from scratch, and I may get ripped on for this but history shows that women's sports don't show the same profit as men's especially in a sport like hockey. There is also increases in scholarships for this, so this costs UND easily $1 million+ per year, but at the same time will be running in the red for awhile yet. Their is also travel expenses associated with losing the SU's, and Northern Colorado. UND now has to travel to Washington every year to play football and that isn't cheap. Also natural resources have been affecting everyone, this hurt UND by having an additional $2.5-3 million dollars in heating expenses over last school year alone. All this being said, it will only get more expensive, while the benefits won't be as great. The basic principle to follow is if the costs outweigh the benefits dont do it, but if the benefits outweigh the costs, then it is time to move. The honest answer, their is no right time or best time to move. UND's choices are either move now and take the additional costs right away, in order to not fall behind its competition, or stay take the additional d2 costs and still receive the lesser benefits. So yes AFF we are running a deficit, and the situation isn't at all idea for UND, but would it be any more ideal in 5-10 years, or would it just be worse then? I as long with a lot of other people feel that it would only get worse. This is a somewhat forced and rushed decision, but here are the facts everyone is mulling over. Bottom line is with the loss of NDSU, SDSU, and Northern Colorado, was also the loss of the NCC as we knew it, UND has never settled to be just ok in athletics, and with no replacement that could return our coference the powerhouse as it was, why start now? Discuss, and enjoy. P.S. UND also received a donation of $10 million dollars, with $9 million of this to be used at the Universities discretion, this money may be fairly nice is using towards some of the increased costs of moving up wouldn't ya say?

You are comparing apples to oranges here academics wise. NDSU is very strong in Pharmacy, Engineering and Agriculture. UND is strong in Business, Law, Aviation, and Medicine. So depending on what you're going into either school could look strong, and yes I go to UND but NDSU does have a better engineering school, while UND has a better business school having been accredited for almost 20 years longer. I personally am quite proud of the fact that there is a strong program for most any major a person may want to go to in the state of ND. If i was going into pharmaceuticals i would have gone to NDSU in a second, but i chose business so coming to UND who is rated one of the top 25 most connected universities was an obvious choice. Anyone who stops the flaming and looks at the facts for a second could see this.

There is a town in Michigan, I believe the name is Kalamazoo. The population of this town is roughly 77,000 people so it is bigger than Grand Forks. About 5 years ago this town passed a motion stating that anyone who attends public school in the town from kindergarten through 12th grade will be abe to attend any college in the state of michigan free of charge. This includes Michigan, Michigan State, and MTU. The first year after this was past the amount of kindergarteners in the town increased by rougly 35% in one school year! True this town did have people donate the money to pay for this, but the point of the story is that things like these do work, and can positively spur growth and economic prosperity for the town. Now this is an extreme example, and it is currently the only city in the nation offering such an incentive, but if Grand Forks could do something, even minimal, it is my opinion that it would have the same effects over a longer period of time, and by increasing the amount of educated within the community, it would eventually lead to better, higher paying jobs overall.

I am a resident of Grand Forks so I will be voting. Not quite sure which way yet if their is a vote, but it was the principle of the matter that upset me. And no i'm not talking about loud parties or anything, i'm talkin about be threatened by the police at 2pm on a tuesday afternoon when me and 3 buddies were playin cards, but that isn't a big deal at all. The thing i disagree with is the statement saying don't act like Grand Forks owes me a damn thing. The town should feel thankful that the university is here because the town isn't growing that fast with a university, where would it be at without one? I'm not asking to receive special treatment, just to be treated fairly like anyone else and not feel disrespected because i go to college. Yes part of these are growing pains cause all of this is new within the last 2 years, and i'll be here 5 years this year, but these are ligitimate problems that need to be dealt with. All this being said, I have recently been working with a professor at UND about a planned proposal I recently sent to Mayor Brown. It is as follows: 1) Any graduating UND student wishing to seek full-time employment upon graduation will have the chance to receive up to $5,000 tuition reimbursment, if he/she stays within the community for a period of at least 5 years. If the student shall move away before the 5 years is up the free money turns into a low-interest loan that the student is required to pay back to the city. - Why not offer an incentive to students to stay in town, with the rising property taxes, and the above average utility costs, this would be a great incentive for Grand Forks to grow. East Grand Forks is doing something very similar at the moment, and it is working out quite nicely. This would be payed with by the portion of the city budget, along with the selling of 30 year municple bonds. 2) Any graduating UND student wishing to purchase land/property within the city limits of Grand Forks will also be offered a set property tax lasting for a maximum period of 5 years in which they would pay a rate that will equal 3.5-4% This would also induce a student to be able to purchase a home instead of throwing away more money into an apartment. Just another way to spur growth with-in the city. I've been workin on this proposal for a few weeks now, and any support shown by either emailing or writing a letter to Mayor Brown would be greatly appreciated. I know the chances of this getting past are probably slim at this point, but my goal here is to sent the message to people that we can change growth potential into actuall growth if the city and university can get students more involved, and give them the opportunity to speak their mind. So if nothing else, if the bill can at least get some exposure it would still be a success in my mind. Thanks very much

Over the past 4 years I have received a great education here at the University of North Dakota, participated in many extracuricular activities, volunteered in the community and held a full-time job, all of which have been beneficial to me, as well as to the community. After saying this, I am some what disturbed as to the current situation of UND students and the community. No i'm not whining about standing at the hockey games, as this has nothing to do with athletics for me, the ralph is the communities not UND's, the students didn't pay for part of it, so that is why we lost some priveleges, and I am fine with that. Everyday I hear from people all over that they support UND students and athletics, but as the months go by, more and more people go against their word, whether it be directly or indirectly, and as I will point out, actions speak louder than words. 1) Casion Election As a student I am appauled by the article written a couple weeks back about not letting students vote in this election, this is blatant discrimination to any student. The gentleman was quoted in the paper as saying that he knows how important UND is to the community, but at the same time feels that we don't have a long-term interest in grand forks. How is that so? I myself pay rent on an apartment, work full-time, give more time to volunteer in the community, but dont have a long-term interest here, it is because of people like this that more and more students leave not only North Dakota but grand forks year after year. 2) City Council Elections Someone please tell me why the elections are in the summer. I have a feeling the members know that if they hold them in the fall most of them wouldn't be elected in again because there is no way students would vote some of them back. So how do we get around this? It's simple, hold elections in the summer when all the students leave, then they can't have a say. Just another example of how to not deal with student opinions. 3) Recent concessions These last couple years students have been forced to make many concessions at the request of the community such as sitting at hockey games, changing springfest, and not being able to rent in particular parts of town. All of these concessions were made at the expense of us the students to please the town, in order to ease the tensions between the two groups which I understand. But after we the students did all this, the town says thats not good enough anymore and changes the noise ordinance to 24 hours a day, and tries to block us from voting. Well Grand Forks the question now becomes what have you done for UND students lately, and no i'm not talking about the athletes the town loves so much, and yes i do understand most businesses are in support of UND and its students. I am talking about the everyday citizens in Grand Forks, we have done a lot these past 2 years to please the community, but what have the citizens done to please the students? This may all seem like a rant from a pissed off student, but its not. I will be graduating this december with a degree in management and economics, and am in the process of looking for jobs, as I am one of the few people that wish to stay within North Dakota upon graduation. This is a big problem because everytime something like this happens, it pushes more and more students away. Grand Forks has a huge advantage over many towns in ND and should be able to keep up growth wise, but is falling behind, as the other 3 major cities are growing faster, while Grand Forks is stable. An easy way to see this is looking at the sales tax increases from last year, keep in mind None of the towns I am mentioning raised their sales taxes, so these increase in numbers are purely an increase in economic growth within the cities. 1) Bismarck -increased sales tax by 12.1% from 2004 2)Minot - increased sales tax by 7% from 2004 3) Fargo - increased sales tax by 6.1% from 2004 4) Grand Forks - increased sales tax by 0.75% from 2004 Now my question is how is Grand Forks so far behind while having a university with over 12,000 students? This is a serious question that needs to be dealt with. Governor Hoven launched a campaign to keep its students in North Dakota, and in my opinion Grand Forks has a long way to go to gain back the respect of the students. The citizens of this town must realize that this is a University town, and because of this has many economic advantages, especially with UND hockey. But at the same time it must be realized that the community will not agree with everything the students do, so compromises must be made on BOTH sides to make it work. The students are doing their part, but the community wants to have its cake and eat it to. Meaning they want to take all the benefits of this great university, but don't want to have to deal with anything else, well it doesn't work that way. I am not trying to say the whole town doesn't support us, because I know most employees of UND along with most people on this message bored want to have the University and community work together, but the time is now to deal with it, or more people like myself will keep getting pushed out of Grand Forks with the message saying, "thanks for your money, but we dont need you anymore." P.S. please only post inciteful remarks as I don't want this to turn into a flamefest.

This is a very interesting argument, because most people feel it's taboo to discuss. Why do we honor the Sioux? I have my own personal feelings just like everyone else, and find myself torn. On the one hand not only the sioux, but the native americans in genaral are a people, that no where they came from, they have very deep ties to their heritage, and it is in my eyes the most important thing to them, this is what we are honoring here at UND, the courage, the honor, the knowledge of the ancestors, and the drive their ancestors had to pass that knowledge along, no matter what anyone else thinks, this is still evident today, in that many Native Americans still pick names just like there ancestors do. If these people that we are honoring don't view it as an honor, and find it offensive then i would be willing to drop the fighting, from the fighting sioux, and sioux if that improves things. What I personally dont like is that the majority of the people that are speaking against the name are caucasion, and have absolutely no roots to the sioux or native americans. That is not their heritage, so how could it possibly be offensive to them? That is a question that I have yet to see anyone answer. I love the name but I am willing to change if the majority of the Sioux people don't approve, but if the majority do, but the people that dont like it are caucasion, like myself, they have no business being offended, and bottom line THE SIOUX PEOPLES VIEWS ARE THE ONES THAT SHOULD BE OK WITH THE NAME, EVERYONE ELSE MAY HAVE AN OPINION LIKE MYSELF, BUT HOW CAN SOMEONE WITH NO TIES TO THE HERITAGE BE OFFENDED? The reason I am no torn is because i was almost engaged to someone who was native american, so i was close with her family, and some of the stuff i hear just appauled me. I heard many things about some of the problems the people are having, and they just laughed at it, saying things iwll never change so why try and what not. A lot of the problems need to be dealt with and with the programs offered UND is at the forfront on trying to help. All of this being said, it is these things the general public sees, and in today's society there is still discrimination , and when a university offers scholarships, programs, free tuition, along with many other options, this is something that should show that we understand where the name comes from , that it is aprreciated, and that is honeored at this university.

also as a student that will be graduating in december, I am becoming concerned with this whole conflict, and how it will look to the outside world. Will my degree lose any value because of this? I dont know but in this matter the students feelings should also be called upon, since it w8ill effect us as well. AFF i do support the nickname, but at this point i'm willing to go for change. It's almost the curse of winning, sometimes you win a battle, but lose so much in the process that at the end more was lost then won.

question, if UND goes d1, don't the hockey teams still get to play in the playoffs right away, since they are already d1?

there are a few big differences betweeen FSU and UND, first florida state isn't the fighting seminoles, i dont feel that the NCAA has a problem with the seminoles because its just that, the seminoles. So UND can deal with this by just dropping fighting. Also when this first happened the seminole tribe came right out to the NCAA and faught for the school, went to the press and told them they approved. UND didn't have this, we didn't gain support from both tribes until the last minute, and one didn't even vote on it yet. Add that to the fact that not all alumni want the name, and Phil Jackson even came out against the name, and it seems like the support isn't nearly as strong. I guarantee you these are the things the NCAA noticed, where as with FSU none of these things were there, that being said UND is in a tough spot right now either way. here are the options: 1) UND keeps the nickname, and in the process looses some alumni support who are against it. 2) UND changes the nickname, and has to accept the fiscal terms as well which are as follows - removing all logos from the ralph, jerseys, university, papers, websites, and anything else that has to do with the sioux. - but they would be able to recoup some costs in the selling of new jerse;ys to the public, but it wouldn't be nearly neouigh to matter. all these things are problems the president must deal with, since a court case insn't relaly that feaible it seems the only option would be to change the nickname and swallow the costs, because that would be much cheaper and much more realistic then going to court. i dont like it as much as the next person, but at this point it would be a better option than having a court case hang in the balance for the next 10 years.

I for one am not questioning any of the decisions at hand that LTC Bunning has made. First question, why would we ever let an old building like that go, the answer is quite simple: - anyone who owns a house knows how much property taxes are, and when there is a building just sitting there not being used, and with land that the university does not plan on using, why keep it? I know a lot of sioux fans especially older rans, this decision might not make much sense, but in terms of monetary vaule, it makes perfect sense, esepecially when the budget is trying to get in balance, its a business, and this is a pure business decision. How could we ever treat Rich Glas Like this? - From my viewpoint, 10+ years ago he was a top tier coach, but i feel its more of a what have you done for me lately situation. In the past 5 years the team has done nothing in D2, and if our program is trying to make a jump to the division 1 level, this problem must be addressed. Yes he does have the all time wins record, he has been here for 18 years, and does have strong ties to GF, but when does UND ever settle for subpar standards in any sport,let alone a major sport? On top of this all he has a chance to further his career with a stable division 1 school who made the NCAA tourny last year, so it is a good choice for him personally, and it is also time for UND to amke a change, so why not leave on a good note, and with some respect if he has the chance? Why doesn't UND play in any of its own buildings? - ECONOMICS, does anyone know how much it cossts to play in your own building, in UND's eyes it is cheaper to rent, than build your own, this avoids the college have to pay the obsurd property taxes in this town, and saves UND much needed money. Why is the budget so out of line? - Everyone loved it when Lennon was signed to a multi-year contract that paid him more than 100k a year, but doesn't like the effect it has on the budget, when about to move to d1 we must keep our great coaches and make changes to the strugglling ones, to make the transition smoothly, and into this the recently build betty, upgrades that are wanted to the alerus, a new D1 womens hockey program, that is adding more scholarships every year. Everyone else budges are more in blance, because everyone else in our confecerence does not have to deal with 2 D1 programs, which are very costly. Upgrades and movement up wards costs, money, and i would much rather have Bunning who knows how to raise moey from his experience of army than our previous AD. Some of these decisions are hard for grand forks residents to understand because we have so much pride in keeping our locals and friends here, but when moving to D1 some of that has to be sacrificed in order to have the most qualified peple in the right positions to make the transition smoothly. A college is a business, and athletics are a business, there may be some unhappy fans but that is how monetary decisons are made these days.

I have to disagree with most post on here on this topic. In any major D1 sport the dominate teams always have their best players leave early. Basketball look at duke and north carolina, football look at miami and USC, hockey minnesota and north dakota. When a lot of athletes go to school as i have listed most of them have dreams, and fairly realistic of going to the pro's and use college as a development process. 10 years ago college hockey didn't have this problem as much because the talent level wasn't as great as it is today, sure there were the hrkac's and joyce's that dominated but in the past five years the talent pool has increased as more prevelant players are choosing the college route. Toews is a perfect example, would the top college player in canada even consider playing college hockey 10 years ago, probably not, because they could develop faster in the CHl or WHl, but now they can gain just as much exposure in college hockey. Most coaches know players wont stay 4 years, and can adapt to it. Before Zach Parise came here his dad told us that he would stay 2 years max, and he did, and after he left we recruited more blue chippa's to replace him. College hockey has come a long way in 10 years, and i personally have no problem with these guys comin and getting 2 free years of college, cause it can only be good for the game, and myself as a fan has no problem with that!

he means talent wise, and the way central played this year they shouldn't be here. There just a team thats been overachieving at the right time of the year

i agree but if bhs can't win then they prolly never will lol, Mike peluso played for the chicago blackhawks, mitch vig won a national championship at UND, justin theele started for 4 years at Notre dame, and that was the year peluso scored over 100 points, quite possibly the best team the west has ever seen, and arguable one of the best in the state all time period, and they still lost, and the worst part was they beat minot like 6 or 7-1 earlier in the year, such a shame for my alma matter

thats not possible cause they won one already, against bhs though lol

Don't think Bismarck High will get shut out. They have the best line in the West right now with Connell, Monson and Miller. So let's say 5-2 Red River instead of 5-0. - remember earlier in the year too, bismarck high also has one of the best goaltenders in the state, when they played fargo south they were outshot something like 58-10 and the final score was only 3-1, so anything is possible come tourney time. But realistically the only west team moving on this weekend will be minot, and that is because central has had a down year, but come tourney time who knows. I will say minot will win 5-3, grafton will win 6-4, south will win 7-2, and RR will win 4-1

I'm not sayin that everyone should win, thats just a stupid idea, there has to be winners and losers IMHO. I am talking about how the fans in the east handle themselves. Everyone knows what i'm talking about to, just look on the other ND hockey thread here, its just a big flame fest most of the time. I follow the sport because i have a family member playing for Bismarck High, and i myself played a few years back so i'm all for competition. but the way some grown men bicker and criticize about how highschool kids play a sport is kinda sad. SOME grand forks and fargo fans start arguing likes it personal, almost seems like there trying to carry out their childhood through the kids today. My point is not that everyone should win, but should you win, should you lose, should you dominate another team, do it with class