[PCM]

A letter from Josie Harper, Dartmouth's director of athletics and recreation, is being discussed in this thread, but I thought the subject deserved a thread of its own given that we'll be hearing more about the issue by the time the Sioux play Darthmouth Dec. 29.

Columnist Charles Mitchell strikes back at Dartmouth about this open letter from the school's Native American Council:

Thanksgiving in the Academy

Quote

This isn’t about truth; it’s about political correctness.

Which one can see in spades in the e-mail from Dartmouth’s president. Here is another snippet:

Since the Dartmouth Board of Trustees decided in the 1970s not to use the Indian symbol the College’s position on this has never wavered. Nor will it. American Indians are a rich part of Dartmouth’s heritage and a strong contributing part of our community. Collectively and as individuals they deserve our respect and our admiration. Dartmouth was founded under a charter that provided that the College’s purpose would be the education of Indians as well as English youth and others.

Not so fast, buddy. If you actually check out Dartmouth’s charter, the college was started for the purpose of evangelizing Indians—secular education came second.

Quote

College is supposed to be about learning. And in our country, one might even say it should be about preparing young people to live as informed citizens of a republic that was purchased with the blood of brave men.

But as this nonsense from Dartmouth—and the entire NCAA—shows, too often college is not about learning anything valid. It’s about Marxist claptrap and encouraging the belief that anyone who is “offended” deserves the world on a platter. Even if the “offense” comes from, say, someone wearing an Indian costume—as your humble correspondent’s four-year-old cousin is probably doing right now.

[ScottM]

And Dartmouth has how many programs aimed at Native Americans?

/cue theme from "Jeopardy"

What is "One", Alex?

Quote

In the 30 years that have passed since former President Kemeny's historical address, Dartmouth's commitment to Indian education has remained strong. In this brief time, over 500 Native Americans from over 120 different tribes have attended Dartmouth, more than at all the other Ivy League institutions combined.

[emphasis added]

That's about 17/year. Although they claim to have 157 in "the program" currently ... whatever that means.

Linky

[siouxguyinstpaul]

Reading Josie's letter almost made me sick it was so syrupie. Who do they think they are kidding?

[HockeyMom]

People have too much time on their hands.

[Goon]

So what are they going to say when we whoop their butts in hockey?

[HockeyMom]

Goon, on Nov 22 2006, 11:37 AM, said:

So what are they going to say when we whoop their butts in hockey?

"Man, I wish we could be more like those Fighting Sioux from North Dakota!"

[dagies]

I propose that Dartmouth change their nickname to "the Custers". Maybe that would make their Native American friends feel better.

[PCM]

It is this type of thinking that keeps me fighting for the Fighting Sioux:

Quote

As Native people, the right to decide what offends us belongs to us and us alone. It is arrogant for non-Native people to presume that they somehow have this right.

[CVCL]

PCM, on Nov 22 2006, 01:45 PM, said:

It is this type of thinking that keeps me fighting for the Fighting Sioux:

It's this type of laundry list, 6 concrete instances of racism directly affecting the students/school, and the fact that they are counted as happening within two months that keeps me wondering this;

Can a list like this be generated for UND for the last 30 years? The NCAA, Civil Rights Council and even the 'Bridges' site haven't been able to do that.

[ScottM]

PCM, on Nov 22 2006, 01:45 PM, said:

It is this type of thinking that keeps me fighting for the Fighting Sioux:

Quote

As Native people, the right to decide what offends us belongs to us and us alone. It is arrogant for non-Native people to presume that they somehow have this right.

Damn those "hang around the fort" Indians!!!!

[LeftyZL]

PCM, on Nov 22 2006, 01:45 PM, said:

It is this type of thinking that keeps me fighting for the Fighting Sioux:

Quote

As Native people, the right to decide what offends us belongs to us and us alone. It is arrogant for non-Native people to presume that they somehow have this right.

That webpage is so far out there, it's almost hard to comprehend what they are fighting for or trying to prove. Their 5 incidences that are from that link relate directly to an individual's actions or some off-campus news publication. It reminds me eerily of UND, since I'm sure there are people on UND's campus that are in fact racist, but to label an entire university racist because of the acts of a few is proposterious. I will never understand that.

Besides the quote PCM used, the other one I found interesting under the section titled "Fundamental Truths" was:

"People or institutions that objectify Native Americans with full knowledge that they are causing offense are, by definition, committing racist attacks."

So, by that "Fundamental Truth", the supporters of the University of North Dakota that walk around displaying the Sioux name or the Sioux logo on their clothing/hats/etc., are in fact committing racist attacks on Native Americans. Couldn't that be considered a "hate crime"? Or am I incorrect? Arrest me now if that is the case.

[dagies]

I guess I never thought that "offense" is a rational emotion. What I mean is, I never thought I needed to decide if something was offensive or not. Based on my ethics and beliefs, I know if something is offensive or not. I don't need to make a decision or not.

If I had to think about it, and decide to be offended, then I guess it really wasn't that big of a deal. Oh, and no one has a right to be offended. You either are, or you are not.

According to the American Heritage dictionary, here is the definition of "offend":

Quote

To cause displeasure, anger, resentment, or wounded feelings in.

Some synonyms

Quote

insult, affront, outrage

These aren't things you sit and ponder, and come to a conclusion. You are, or you are not. And that's one reason I struggle with the idea that the Fighting Sioux nickname is really that big of a deal. If someone has to sit and ponder whether or not this really matters to them, I guess it wasn't really that big of a deal. And if it was, then the reaction should have been pretty much immediate.

[PCM]

Quote

It is wrong for one race of people to appropriate cultures and customs of another race of people.

Does this apply equally to all races or is it just another one of those rights invented out of thin air? Because I'd hate to think what would happen if non-Indians demanded that Indians cease and desist in the appropriation of their cultures and customs. And what if that same principle was applied to technology and medicine, too?

Quote

Objectification is about power. The commodification of Native people, whether it’s done by the college to raise money or by students for their own personal amusement or profit, is an abuse of power.

It would be interesting to know which race of non-Native people is "commodified" for profit at casinos.

[Basil]

A quote from deadspin.com (scroll past the first few stories) - "...it seems a bit self- flagellating to flog your own school because you're playing the team in hockey..." I agree.

[Chewey]

These people are loons for sure. It would make for an interesting psychological study to determine how they acquire that mindset.

[Tommiejo]

Leave it to those sorry you know what's from the Northeastern part of the country & they want to know why we southerns call them YANKEES. Because they are a bunch of sorry you know what YANKESS who don't know there you know what from a hole in the ground. HockeyMom is right about one thing & I agree with her on this one. "PEOPLE HAVE TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS." Hey HockeyMom I think I have that right if I don't please forgive me besides i'm not perfect. GO GATORS CHOMP ON THOSE DAMN SEMINOLES.

SIOUX FAN SINCE 1973.

[LetsGoSioux!]

If you'd like to send a tasteful email to her, feel free

Joann.Harper@Dartmouth.edu

[farce poobah]

Thanks to the leadership at Dartmouth, we get a front row seat to witness the heights of hypocrisy.

Dartmouth has adopted the Roy Saigo strategy - when there's racism in your own house, blame UND.

The various discriminatory events at St Cloud have been pretty well documented, so I won't rehash that here. And we're all familiar with Saigo's strategy.

Dartmouth, I am less familiar with. But there is a fair bit of fuss inside the college that created complaints from Native Americans inside the college.

[EDIT - additional info] If this stuff is true, then its Dartmouth that really has the problem.
http://www.thedartmo...d=2006111702020
"During Homecoming, Indian t-shirts were sold depicting a Holy Cross Crusader performing oral sex on the image of the Indian. On Columbus Day, two students disrupted a Native American drum ceremony, running into the circle and taunting the participating students (if you can't picture this, imagine someone screaming obscenities in the middle of a church service). The "cowboy and Indian"-themed crew formal was rightly called out as inappropriate."

In fact, the president of the college wrote a companion letter in the Dartmouth.
http://www.thedartmo...d=2006112101060

I don't have all the facts, and cannot judge whether what happened at Hanover was inappropriate or not.
But I have a hard time picturing a UND athletic team doing a "Cowboys and Indians" event. If that's what is really going on at Dartmouth, then their problem is internal, not external.

The other hypocrisy I see is the apparent selective criticism of UND. In fact, the Dartmouth women's basketball team played none other than the Central Michigan Chippewas last week. Where's the criticism of Central Michigan? I leave it to your imagination ...
http://scores.espn.g...use?teamId=2117

=============================
What should UND do?

I suggest that when UND hockey plays there in December, that UND ask the Dartmouth public address announcer to read the same announcement that is read at UND home hockey games. Most of us know this by heart: "UND adopted the Fighting Sioux nickname in the 1930's to honor ..."

[coach daddy]

farce poobah, on Nov 25 2006, 12:59 PM, said:

Thanks to the leadership at Dartmouth, we get a front row seat to witness the heights of hypocrisy.

Dartmouth has adopted the Roy Saigo strategy - when there's racism in your own house, blame UND.

The various discriminatory events at St Cloud have been pretty well documented, so I won't rehash that here. And we're all familiar with Saigo's strategy.

Dartmouth, I am less familiar with. But there is a fair bit of fuss inside the college that created complaints from Native Americans inside the college.

In fact, the president of the college wrote a companion letter in the Dartmouth.
http://www.thedartmo...d=2006112101060

I don't have all the facts, and cannot judge whether what happened at Hanover was inappropriate or not.
But I have a hard time picturing a UND athletic team doing a "Cowboys and Indians" event. If that's what is really going on at Dartmouth, then their problem is internal, not external.

The other hypocrisy I see is the apparent selective criticism of UND. In fact, the Dartmouth women's basketball team played none other than the Central Michigan Chippewas last week. Where's the criticism of Central Michigan? I leave it to your imagination ...
http://scores.espn.g...use?teamId=2117

=============================
What should UND do?

I suggest that when UND hockey plays there in December, that UND ask the Dartmouth public address announcer to read the same announcement that is read at UND home hockey games. Most of us know this by heart: "UND adopted the Fighting Sioux nickname in the 1930's to honor ..."

Well said. The people of Dartmouth should be embarrassed for own school and clean their own yard first. A bunch of "think-they-know-everything ivy league folks". If you don't know what you're talking about, Shut the hell up.

[Riverman]

farce poobah, on Nov 25 2006, 02:59 PM, said:

What should UND do?

I suggest that when UND hockey plays there in December, that UND ask the Dartmouth public address announcer to read the same announcement that is read at UND home hockey games. Most of us know this by heart: "UND adopted the Fighting Sioux nickname in the 1930's to honor ..."

I think you have something there!! A very good idea!!