[GeauxSioux]

Nicknames promote racism, not dialogue

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Obviously, the affected parties determine what is offensive because they suffer from it. Unaffected members should not dictate how the affected party feels, and American Indians should not be met with ugly alumni and student backlashes.

Indian logos are one cause of low self-esteem among American Indian children. As such, negative Indian logos, images and mascots hurt both Indian and non-Indian students. American Indian students endure the psychological damage and dehumanizing effects of seeing these cartoons of themselves. It is no coincidence that American Indians have the highest suicide, alcoholism, drug addiction, unemployment and school dropout rates of any ethnic group in the U.S.

So if the logo/name is changed, these problems will suddenly vanish?

[GeauxSioux]

Taking the first steps toward a cultural accord

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Behind the seemingly trivial issue of whether sports teams at the University of North Dakota can continue to call themselves the "Fighting Sioux," there exists a gulf that divides white and Indian cultures and keeps North Dakota stuck in disintegrated phase of its history. It's what University of Colorado historian Patricia Limerick calls the "Legacy of Conquest."

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Probably, all this sounds like "the wildest chimera of a moonstruck mind." Maybe it is. So let's start with an easy one. Let's retire "Fighting Sioux" and then carefully nurture the little tendril of good will it sprouts.

[Chewey]

GeauxSioux, on Mar 9 2008, 08:01 AM, said:

Nicknames promote racism, not dialogue

Quote

Obviously, the affected parties determine what is offensive because they suffer from it. Unaffected members should not dictate how the affected party feels, and American Indians should not be met with ugly alumni and student backlashes.

Indian logos are one cause of low self-esteem among American Indian children. As such, negative Indian logos, images and mascots hurt both Indian and non-Indian students. American Indian students endure the psychological damage and dehumanizing effects of seeing these cartoons of themselves. It is no coincidence that American Indians have the highest suicide, alcoholism, drug addiction, unemployment and school dropout rates of any ethnic group in the U.S.

So if the logo/name is changed, these problems will suddenly vanish?

He's an Ojibiwe, like T.J. Oshie, so his opinion shouldn't count right? That's what the PCers indicated when T.J. Oshie stated that he proudly supports the nickname. Where are these victims and where is the data indicating that the nickname actually causes such ills? Just because a few guilt-ridden, angry PCers (most of whom are white) say it does means that it does? That's about all they can offer and such a claim is itself racist. Marc Ranfranz and T.J. Oshie seem to have done pretty well, the supposed deleterious effects of the nickname notwithstanding. What a bunch of baloney. Oh, and according to this guy's logic, it's ok for the victims of racism to continue the saga of misery by racially stereotyping themselves? What planet are we on again?

[ScottM]

GeauxSioux, on Mar 9 2008, 08:01 AM, said:

Nicknames promote racism, not dialogue

Quote

Obviously, the affected parties determine what is offensive because they suffer from it. Unaffected members should not dictate how the affected party feels, and American Indians should not be met with ugly alumni and student backlashes.

Indian logos are one cause of low self-esteem among American Indian children. As such, negative Indian logos, images and mascots hurt both Indian and non-Indian students. American Indian students endure the psychological damage and dehumanizing effects of seeing these cartoons of themselves. It is no coincidence that American Indians have the highest suicide, alcoholism, drug addiction, unemployment and school dropout rates of any ethnic group in the U.S.

So if the logo/name is changed, these problems will suddenly vanish?

The writer forgot to mention that the Sioux name/logo also causes bad breath, acne, people driving slow in the left lane and menstrual cramps.

[GeauxSioux]

Tribal college presidents, UND grads bow out of Beyond Beads and Feathers photo shoot citing Sioux nickname

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A planned photo shoot of current and former tribal college presidents for UND’s Beyond Beads and Feathers poster campaign won’t take place, a UND vice president says, after about one-third of the participants bowed out because of their opposition to the school’s Fighting Sioux nickname.

Do you wan to weigh in on this one, Sica?

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Gipp charged that the university and the state acted disrespectfully by making tribal ap-proval the sole condition for whether UND can retain its nickname in an October legal set-tlement with the NCAA despite the tribes’ stated opposition. That settlement, the result of a yearlong and multimillion dollar legal challenge to the NCAA’s 2005 policy banning most American Indian nicknames, requires the school to retire its nickname in three years if it cannot win the support of both the state’s Sioux tribes.

[WiSioux]

I think that there was another thread about it, but I can't find it...

However, I noticed today when I was going past the Native American Center that they have replaced the stolen eagle. I assume that it is a brand new one, since I haven't heard anything about someone being caught for stealing the old one.

[The Sicatoka]

GeauxSioux, on Mar 12 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

Tribal college presidents, UND grads bow out of Beyond

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Gipp charged that the university and the state acted disrespectfully by making tribal approval the sole condition for whether UND can retain its nickname in an October legal settlement with the NCAA despite the tribes’ stated opposition.

Dear Chairman* Gipp,

1. The NCAA, not the state, and not UND, created the "namesake exemption". Blame them, not UND.

2. You got the power you wanted and now it's "disrespectful" to have given it to you?

3. I hope you get the one thing you've wished for (no Sioux name) and all that comes with it.




* I use "chairman" just like I use "Chairman Mao".

[The Sicatoka]

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The other tribal college leaders who declined to participate in the photo shoot were Cynthia Lindquist Mala, president of Cankdeska Cikana tribal college in Fort Totten, N.D.; ...

Gee, wasn't she hand picked by JQ Paulsen to be on the president selection committee.

[The Sicatoka]

WiSioux, on Mar 12 2008, 09:32 PM, said:

However, I noticed today when I was going past the Native American Center that they have replaced the stolen eagle. I assume that it is a brand new one, since I haven't heard anything about someone being caught for stealing the old one.

The Herald reported that the missing one was found in the Coulee behind the AISS building this summer.

[Siouxmama]

The Sicatoka, on Mar 12 2008, 10:01 PM, said:

WiSioux, on Mar 12 2008, 09:32 PM, said:

However, I noticed today when I was going past the Native American Center that they have replaced the stolen eagle. I assume that it is a brand new one, since I haven't heard anything about someone being caught for stealing the old one.

The Herald reported that the missing one was found in the Coulee behind the AISS building this summer.

I don't remember reading that. Was the statue ruined so it had to be replaced with a new one?

[GeauxSioux]

The Sicatoka, on Mar 12 2008, 09:44 PM, said:

GeauxSioux, on Mar 12 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

Tribal college presidents, UND grads bow out of Beyond

Quote

Gipp charged that the university and the state acted disrespectfully by making tribal approval the sole condition for whether UND can retain its nickname in an October legal settlement with the NCAA despite the tribes’ stated opposition.

Dear Chairman* Gipp,

1. The NCAA, not the state, and not UND, created the "namesake exemption". Blame them, not UND.

2. You got the power you wanted and now it's "disrespectful" to have given it to you?

3. I hope you get the one thing you've wished for (no Sioux name) and all that comes with it.




* I use "chairman" just like I use "Chairman Mao".

I knew you'd have a field day with that one.

[The Sicatoka]

Heck, I missed one:

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As part of a second round of the poster campaigns, UND had planned to send a photogra-pher to the American Indian Higher Education Conference in Bismarck on Monday, to take a group photo of the 14 UND graduates who are past or present tribal college presidents.

Five of those presidents, however, declined to take part in the photo shoot, citing UND’s continued use of the Fighting Sioux nickname, including presidents of three of the five tribal colleges in North Dakota.

4. Can any other university claim 14 living past or present tribal presidents?
4a. Why isn't the story about 14 tribal president alumni?
4b. Why isn't the story about the 9 who do stand up for UND?

Nope, the story is about the 5 habitually offended folks, who seemed to still have suceeded (tribal presidents and even a tribal college president) with UND called the "Fighting Sioux" ... just like the other 9.

Sure makes sense, doesn't it.

[GeauxSioux]

E-mail from UTTC President David Gipp to UND AISS Director Leigh Jeanotte

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I must decline for the photo at this time, since the UND mascot controversy continues. It is incessantly and increasingly a topic of dissension among the various communities--tribal and non-tribal. Indeed, by all appearances the State of North Dakota continues to pressure First Americans and tribal leaders to approve the current usage: by the North Dakota attorney general naming the tribes in the court approved settlement between North Dakota and the NCAA and disregarding the official views of Indian Tribes and the positions they have already taken.

If there is indeed dissension within the tribal communities in regards to the Fighting Sioux name/logo, wouldn't that mean that there are people there who don't feel the same way as Mr. Gipp?

This post has been edited by GeauxSioux: 13 March 2008 - 08:44 AM

[The Sicatoka]

GeauxSioux, on Mar 13 2008, 08:32 AM, said:

If there is indeed dissension within the tribal communities in regards to the Fighting Sioux name/logo, wouldn't that mean that there are people there who don't feel the same way as Mr. Gipp?

Given that and the previous story, I'd say yes.
Using the provided very limited sample, I'd say of 14 UND graduates who are (Mr. Gipp's term) "First Americans" the split is 9 support and 5 don't.


Aren't the folks in the minority opinion normally considered the dissenters?
Wouldn't that mean Mr. Gipp is causing the ... dissension?

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

The Sicatoka, on Mar 12 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

2. You got the power you wanted and now it's "disrespectful" to have given it to you?

Exactly. First you weren't happy because you couldn't control what North Dakota did with a word from the English language that you claimed "ownership" of: now you're unhappy because you DO have control?

Be careful what you wish for....

[fourwindsboy]

Sioux-cia, on Aug 15 2005, 02:18 PM, said:

This article points out that the use of mascots and derogatory names is insulting. UND does not have a mascot nor is the name Sioux derogatory. The article also points out that people who are for the names do little or nothing for the American Indian. As stated ad nauseam, UND spends millions of dollars on American Indian programs and services.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! UND does not spend millions of $$$ out of its own pocket for NA programs. All of the NA programs at UND are grant programs funded by the feds. UND applied for those grants and they awarded to them. In fact any federal grant has indirect costs related to them, always around 10-15% of the grant, which UND puts in thier pockets. So in effect, UND is earning themselves money for having these NA programs. I know for a fact the NA cultural center, INMED, Bridges, the Mcnair programs and the INPSYD program are federally funded. I challenge you to tell of a NA program at UND that is funded by UND funds.

[Sioux-cia]

fourwindsboy, on Apr 29 2008, 10:02 AM, said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa! UND does not spend millions of $$$ out of its own pocket for NA programs. All of the NA programs at UND are grant programs funded by the feds. UND applied for those grants and they awarded to them. In fact any federal grant has indirect costs related to them, always around 10-15% of the grant, which UND puts in thier pockets. So in effect, UND is earning themselves money for having these NA programs. I know for a fact the NA cultural center, INMED, Bridges, the Mcnair programs and the INPSYD program are federally funded. I challenge you to tell of a NA program at UND that is funded by UND funds.

Before your start replying to posts that are almost three years old you should read all the posts related to the issue. I have posted since then that the NA programs at UND are funded by federal grants.

It's apparent to me that your trolling my posts in order to start a hostile and abusive dialog with me. I'm not biting. As I said before, you're not bringing anything new to this forum and I'm not interested in arguing with you.

[fourwindsboy]

Sioux-cia, on Apr 29 2008, 12:37 PM, said:

Before your start replying to posts that are almost three years old you should read all the posts related to the issue. I have posted since then that the NA programs at UND are funded by federal grants.

It's apparent to me that your trolling my posts in order to start a hostile and abusive dialog with me. I'm not biting. As I said before, you're not bringing anything new to this forum and I'm not interested in arguing with you.

Ah, you just did. And don't go feelin all warm and fuzzy about me trolling your posts. I looked at the first page of the topic and came across your post. I didn't have time to look at all 134 pages to find replies to your post. By the way how did it feel to be dead wrong about your statement?

[Sioux-cia]

I have been wrong before and will very likely be wrong again. I have no problem admitting this fact of life.

You are officially on ignore.

[Stromer]

fourwindsboy, on Apr 29 2008, 12:41 PM, said:

I looked at the first page of the topic and came across your post. I didn't have time to look at all 134 pages to find replies to your post.

But yet you blindy replied to something that likely got retracted in the last 3 YEARS?! That makes a lot of sense.