UND or SIU

[Matt]

I think the UND job is better, but some disagree. Lennon also did something Jerry Kill never did (according to Saluki message board), win at Northern Iowa.

[star2city]

If Lennon was offered $200k from Southern Illinois, it would be difficult to justify based on the income from UND football, especially when compared to Hakstol's salary and UND's hockey income. Southern Illinois' basketball provides a lot of income (via NCAA payments from NCAA basketball wins) that subsidizes the football program. '

Southern Illinois rewards basketball coach with extension

With SIU being a basketball school, SIU's basketball coach Lowery makes $750/yr. Lennon's salary is less than 1/3rd of that. It wouldn't be justifiable to pay Lennon $200 k/yr, when Hakstol isn't making all that much more with a program that brings in a great amount of $'s. UND football is not a money-maker (yet).

[Stromer]

I think the UND job is better, but some disagree. Lennon also did something Jerry Kill never did (according to Saluki message board), win at Northern Iowa.

As for now, I would give a slight edge to SIU just because they are in the Gateway and have an autobid. They also don't have hockey running the show although basketball is pretty big there as well. I think if we get into a decent conference after our transition ends, we will be heads and shoulders above but thats just my opinion. I only see Dale at SIU for a couple of years or until he gets offered a 1A job. They are just a stepping stone.

[SalukiBand]

A couple of things from the SIU point of view.

Coach Lennon will get a 5 year contract at $200,000 per year. That will make him (along with Mark Farley at Northern Iowa) the highest-paid coach in the Gateway Conference.

There's no doubt that football plays second-fiddle to basketball at Southern. It's probably comparable to the situation there with hockey. SIU has had 6 straight trips to the NCAA tournament (5 as an at-large) and 2 Sweet 16 appearances. Chris Lowery's $750K salary is a little deceiving. Only about $300K of that is actually paid by the University. The rest is coming from "outside sources". Tonight, the Salukis will be playing in their sold-out Arena (seats about 10,000) against the 16th-ranked Butler Bulldogs. (It's on ESPNU at 8:00 Central time. Coach Lennon is supposed to be at the game.)

But the gap between football and basketball is narrowing. Before Jerry Kill came to Southern, there were some (somewhat) serious discussions about going non-scholarship or even dropping football. This year was the 5th-straight trip to the I-AA playoffs and had the Salukis not played brain-dead in the semi-finals, they should have had a chance to play Appy State in the championship game. Plus, 16 of the 22 starters are coming back next year. The attendance has improved to where we averaged almost 10,000 per game in our old, dilapidated stadium. As has been mentioned, there are plans on the drawing board and money approved for a new stadium to be in place for the 2010 season.

The major spots to fill will be replacing the all-conference QB that broke most all SIU single-season passing records last year and the top 3 wide recievers. But there are 3 QB's in camp that come highly-regarded. Two are classic drop-back passers while the third is more athletic and would be more of an option threat.

On an unrelated note, as a St. Louis-area resident, I got the opportunity to go to the Frozen Four at the ScottTrade Center last spring. It was quite an experience. I know that there are LOTS of Blues fans in the area that are REALLY looking forward to seeing T.J. Oshie wearing the Note next year.

[SalukiBand]

SIU is use to being a "stepping stone".

Five years ago, Bruce Weber went to Illinois. The next year, Matt Painter went to his alma mater at Purdue. Two weeks ago, Jerry Kill went to Northern Illinois. He doubled his salary and with incentives could make half a million dollars next year.

[GeauxSioux]

SIU is use to being a "stepping stone".

Five years ago, Bruce Weber went to Illinois. The next year, Matt Painter went to his alma mater at Purdue. Two weeks ago, Jerry Kill went to Northern Illinois. He doubled his salary and with incentives could make half a million dollars next year.

Aren't 95% of all college coaching jobs "stepping stones"? Unless you are a major BCS school (and even then it isn't permanent) you are always looking for the $$$ or larger challenge.

[SalukiBand]

And even the big BCS programs are "stepping stones" to pro jobs, aren't they?

[The Sicatoka]

Tonight, the Salukis will be playing in their sold-out Arena (seats about 10,000) against the 16th-ranked Butler Bulldogs. (It's on ESPNU at 8:00 Central time. Coach Lennon is supposed to be at the game.)

Sorry, I'll be missing that.

I'll be at #9 New Hampshire at #7 North Dakota with 11406 others in Grand Forks.

[star2city]

From an attendance standpoint, there's really been no significant differences between the schools:

SIU Avg Attendance

2007 9950

2006 9508

2005 9581

2004 9712

UND Avg Attendance

2007 9887

2006 8827

2005 9426

2004 9389

Both schools attendances have been hurt by poorly attended first-round playoff games. (For example, this year, SIU's first round game against Eastern Illinois only drew 6124, while the second round game against UMass drew just 6560. Our first round game against Winona drew 5370.)

[NDSUFREAK10]

umm...everyone has to say that SIU is the much better job. Come on guys, Lennon doesn't have to wait 4 years to make the playoffs. He can go next year.

[Bison06]

umm...everyone has to say that SIU is the much better job. Come on guys, Lennon doesn't have to wait 4 years to make the playoffs. He can go next year.

I would say that it depends on whose perspective you are looking at the situation from. From a fan's point of view I would say UND is the better situation. Better facilities, more excitement about the program. But, from a coaches perspective it's a no-brainer IMO. Better paying job, and most importantly the ability to recruit to SIU is much, much easier, they are in the heart of a great recruiting area.

[Matt]

I would say that it depends on whose perspective you are looking at the situation from. From a fan's point of view I would say UND is the better situation. Better facilities, more excitement about the program. But, from a coaches perspective it's a no-brainer IMO. Better paying job, and most importantly the ability to recruit to SIU is much, much easier, they are in the heart of a great recruiting area.

By that criteria, SIU would be better than NDSU as well.

[Hammersmith]

By that criteria, SIU would be better than NDSU as well.

They aren't that far apart and, honestly, I'm not sure which is better. NDSU has much better facilities at the moment, but SIU will nearly close the gap by the end of the decade. NDSU gets the nod in tradition and fan/community support since football is king here, but it's easier to recruit to SIU(the regular Big Dance appearances can't hurt) and the pay is much better. I'd say both jobs are among the 10 best in FCS, and both are trying for the top 5(pay/playoffs for NDSU and facilities for SIU).

As for UND, it'd be a stretch for me to put the job in the top-25 for FCS at the moment; maybe top-35 would be better. Facilities are decent, but not spectacular. Pay is above average, but not by much. Hockey is king. Throw in the playoff ineligibility, nickname question, and power vacuum in administration, and you just can't put UND among the elite jobs for now. Maybe in five years things will change dramatically, but not for today.

[WYOBISONMAN]

There is no rational way that one can say UND would be a better job for a football coach than SIU. SIU has it all over UND because of conference affiliation, playoff history in FCS football, no transition period to suffer through, and compensation.

Plus, UND has the distractions of a lame duck President, no AD, and the nick name debacle.

UND really needs to get these things taken care of as soon as possible so they are not distractions in the move up to D1.......

[Siouxmama]

I'll just post this, as it has been bugging me since I read that Coach Lennon was going to SIU.

http://www.siuc.edu/aboutsiuc/saluki.html

I'm going to have to vote for the SIOUX as the better logo (since we don't have a mascot).

[NDSUFREAK10]

I'll just post this, as it has been bugging me since I read that Coach Lennon was going to SIU.

http://www.siuc.edu/aboutsiuc/saluki.html

I'm going to have to vote for the SIOUX as the better logo (since we don't have a mascot).

we can agree there

[fightingsioux4life]

What bothers me about this whole thing is that this makes our program look like a mid-major DI FCS program which will lose coaches every five years or so to the big-time DI FCS programs. I can deal with being a mid-major in DI basketball, but not in football. The move up to DI in all sports was in part predicated on the football program being nationally competitive in DI FCS, not just a lower to mid tier FCS program. If that's all we are capable of, this whole DI move was a big fat waste of time and effort. We had better get some order and leadership established in the athletic department and in Twamley Hall or this is going to be catastrophic for the football program and who knows what else.

Losing coaches to DI FBS schools? Understandable and inevitable.

Losing coaches to DI FCS schools? Unacceptable and preventable.

[82SiouxGuy]

What bothers me about this whole thing is that this makes our program look like a mid-major DI FCS program which will lose coaches every five years or so to the big-time DI FCS programs. I can deal with being a mid-major in DI basketball, but not in football. The move up to DI in all sports was in part predicated on the football program being nationally competitive in DI FCS, not just a lower to mid tier FCS program. If that's all we are capable of, this whole DI move was a big fat waste of time and effort. We had better get some order and leadership established in the athletic department and in Twamley Hall or this is going to be catastrophic for the football program and who knows what else.

Losing coaches to DI FBS schools? Understandable and inevitable.

Losing coaches to DI FCS schools? Unacceptable and preventable.

You're getting ahead of yourself. UND will have every opportunity to be a top tier FCS program in the future. But the reality is we are not there yet. We are a Division II school that is just starting a 5 year process to become a full fledged FCS program. If UND is not an upper level program in 5-10 years, then you can be concerned. But there is no realistic way you can compare the UND football program with a well established FCS program like SIU right now.

[dlsiouxfan]

In 5-10 years, if we pull off the Division I move the way we are capable of, the UND head coaching job will be a lot better job than the SIU job. Unfortunately, at 47 Dale Lennon probably doesn't have that kind of time if he ever wants to get a big- time FBS job. This is the right move for him if this is his ambition and if so then I wish the best of luck to him.

[mksioux]

Losing coaches to DI FBS schools? Understandable and inevitable.

Losing coaches to DI FCS schools? Unacceptable and preventable.

I agree. UND should expect nothing less, even if it's not quite the reality yet due to the transition.

As to the question posed, SIU is obviously a better job in the short term, UND *should* be the better job in the long term. If UND is losing its head coach to another FCS schools five years from now, things will be seriously wrong.

[Stromer]

I agree. UND should expect nothing less, even if it's not quite the reality yet due to the transition.

As to the question posed, SIU is obviously a better job in the short term, UND *should* be the better job in the long term. If UND is losing its head coach to another FCS schools five years from now, things will be seriously wrong.

I agree. In 5 years, we should only be losing to FBS. His comments after the press conference reaffirm my feeling that he only left to further his career. I don't think he will be at SIU for very long because I think he will now be gunning for 1A. If we moved earlier, we might have kept him longer but I still think he would have probably left to climb the rungs. I think he stayed so long was a testament to the fact that he wanted to get the program commited to D1.

[star2city]

SIU's hiring of Lennon recieved a lot of press in a number of markets:

Southern Illinois' Southern

Chicago Tribune: Salukis bring in another winner

St. Louis Post-Dispatch: Salukis select North Dakota's Lennon as their new football coach

SIU AD Moccia's gut feeling led him to Lennon

[UND92,96]

I briefly checked out the SIU board, and it appears Coach Lennon is getting harshly criticized more after just two games than he did during nine years being head coach at UND.

[SiouxMD]

I briefly checked out the SIU board, and it appears Coach Lennon is getting harshly criticized more after just two games than he did during nine years being head coach at UND.

I wonder what they will say when he loses to the Sioux on 08NOV?