Negotiated Settlement?

[moser53]

I love when people praise Bill Clinton, he had a Republican senate and house his last term. I am not sure you realized but since the 2006 elections the DNC has been running the show again and has the lowest approval rating on any congress. They were going to drain the swamp of courption and all we have gotten in the status quo. By the way both Obama and Clinton are a part of that congress/senate. Even their approval numbers are worse than President Bushes. So your believe we tax ourselves into propersity? I don't watch CNN or Lou Dobbs.

The Democrates pretty much controlled congress for 40 years. It took that long to have a major scandal. The House Banking Scandal. Newt Gingrich broke this one because he wanted to do the right thing. Ya right. Congress has an approval that is deserving. The Republicans have done such a good job of selling us down the river the middle class will never recover. The people of the US trust neither party because of the policys of Bush and the Republicans.

[ScottM]

Leave the election year "politics" to USCHO.

[moser53]

Leave the election year "politics" to USCHO.

Sorry I have to defend team ND. As fine a group of representatives as in any state in the US. There is a reason they get relected all the time. They have common sence. Iwill quit since this is off topic.

[Goon]

The Republicans have done such a good job of selling us down the river the middle class will never recover. The people of the US trust neither party because of the policys of Bush and the Republicans.

Ahhhhh, I see sooooooo I would probably put you in favor or redistribution of wealth in the form of high taxation rates on the poor?

Selling out the middle class is ussually a buzz word for higher tax rates and socialistic programs.

[Goon]

Sorry I have to defend team ND. As fine a group of representatives as in any state in the US. There is a reason they get relected all the time. They have common sence. Iwill quit since this is off topic.

Really they have done so much for ND. Just like protecting the Fighting Sioux name. Oh, thats right they are too busy holding up Bush's judicial nominations and bashing Bush.

[moser53]

Ahhhhh, I see sooooooo I would probably put you in favor or redistribution of wealth in the form of high taxation rates on the poor?

Selling out the middle class is ussually a buzz word for higher tax rates and socialistic programs.

Do I believe in a social safety net for the American people? Yes I do. I also believe what Byron Dorgan said was right when he was asked why do you think the government can solve all the problems of the American people. He said the government should only step in where the private sector has failed. Is this the case with Health Care. Crop Insurance. As far as taxes go the fair tax intrigues me.

[gjw007]

Do I believe in a social safety net for the American people? Yes I do. I also believe what Byron Dorgan said was right when he was asked why do you think the government can solve all the problems of the American people. He said the government should only step in where the private sector has failed. Is this the case with Health Care. Crop Insurance. As far as taxes go the fair tax intrigues me.

Wow, what a discussion. I think you need to really look at some of the things that you say and then say you support. For example, the Fair Tax has a grand sounding name but in essence, it is nothing more than a sales tax. Sales tax are inherently disadvantageous to the poor as a high percentage of their income (all) will be spent on items which will then be taxed. The wealthy will also be taxed on the items that they purchase but they have the ability to put some of their spendings in investment and savings thus spending a lower percentage of their income on taxes. So much for fair.

Just as an aside, can anybody really tell me what the Republicans or Democrats stand for who doesn't research the issues beyond the media sound bites? I certainly can't tell with 5 second sound bites. I live just outside DC and politics is the industry here and very, very few really explain their position. Being specific results in negative sound bites directed at them and vague comments are easily misunderstood so that when a vote or an action goes in a way that a voter doesn't expect, they few cheated and lied to.

This has gotten away from the thread topic. The only reason that I responded is that this dialog shows the (1) difficulty in explaining issues via non-verbal communications and (2) that there are many factors that can complicate an issue. The negotiated settlement highlights both these issues.

[moser53]

Wow, what a discussion. I think you need to really look at some of the things that you say and then say you support. For example, the Fair Tax has a grand sounding name but in essence, it is nothing more than a sales tax. Sales tax are inherently disadvantageous to the poor as a high percentage of their income (all) will be spent on items which will then be taxed. The wealthy will also be taxed on the items that they purchase but they have the ability to put some of their spendings in investment and savings thus spending a lower percentage of their income on taxes. So much for fair.

Just as an aside, can anybody really tell me what the Republicans or Democrats stand for who doesn't research the issues beyond the media sound bites? I certainly can't tell with 5 second sound bites. I live just outside DC and politics is the industry here and very, very few really explain their position. Being specific results in negative sound bites directed at them and vague comments are easily misunderstood so that when a vote or an action goes in a way that a voter doesn't expect, they few cheated and lied to.

This has gotten away from the thread topic. The only reason that I responded is that this dialog shows the (1) difficulty in explaining issues via non-verbal communications and (2) that there are many factors that can complicate an issue. The negotiated settlement highlights both these issues.

Yes I know it is a sales tax. Lower income people get rebate checks. Is this not correct?

[gfhockey]

Whats funny is my friend who is an economics teacher over at UND said in 4 years, ND will be the state with the highest surplus if oil prodcution keeps going the way it is. Our state doesnt really like to spend that much money so they better start or we will have way more then we need. I read this somewhere forgot where i read it though, this is some like 1/4 billion barrels of oil out there in some formation which i forgot its name haha sorry guys but 2/3 of it we cant get to but the other third will last decades upon decades with us only drilling 155 barrels per day per well.

[Goon]

Whats funny is my friend who is an economics teacher over at UND said in 4 years, ND will be the state with the highest surplus if oil prodcution keeps going the way it is. Our state doesnt really like to spend that much money so they better start or we will have way more then we need. I read this somewhere forgot where i read it though, this is some like 1/4 billion barrels of oil out there in some formation which i forgot its name haha sorry guys but 2/3 of it we cant get to but the other third will last decades upon decades with us only drilling 155 barrels per day per well.

That sounds about right, the surplus should go back to the citizens of the state because they would be taking too much from the Citizens.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Yes I know it is a sales tax. Lower income people get rebate checks. Is this not correct?

Why should people who make something of themselves and get ahead in life be most heavily penalized (taxed)? And people who are a burden on society get all the perks? We should encourage people to work hard and be fiscally responsible, not discourage it. But we are discouraging people from working hard because if they do, they get penalized, and if they don't they get the fruits of someone else's labor. It makes no sense. Every citizen should get the exact same service from the government and pay exactly the same amount for it. This means eliminate welfare and other programs. Essentially, eliminate everything that doesn't benefit everybody. Welfare takes money from some and gives it to others, hence, it isn't fair. And secondly, the elimination of taxes. Instead of taxes, every citizen cuts the government a check once a year for the exact same amount.

[petey23]

I hate to throw facts into the arguement because most of those on the left like to argue and base their thoughts on emotion and ignore them but what the hell

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K tax $8,400 Single making 30K tax $4,500

Single making 50K tax $14,000 Single making 50K tax $12,500

Single making 75K tax $23,250 Single making 75K tax $18,750

Married making 60K tax $16,800 Married making 60K tax $9,000

Married making 75K tax $21,000 Married making 75K tax $18,750

Married making 125K tax $38,750 Married making 125K tax $31,250

Which income level is the middle class(also known as the one that the republicans screw over)?

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

I hate to throw facts into the arguement because most of those on the left like to argue and base their thoughts on emotion and ignore them but what the hell

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K

[petey23]

Many see the light after awhile

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374064,374064,1.html

[octupus99]

Guys,

Let's keep on task with the on ething we can agree on and that is keeping the name. The difference between the Thunder/NCAA/bleding heart alliance is that they are organized and stay on message. I called Dorgan, Conrad, and Pomeroy yesterday and asked for their stance on the name and urged them to support it. Let's all do it. It'll take you three minutes each. I love arguing politics too, but we need to unite on this one. Once it's gone it won't come back. Also, I will bet you they will next attack the jerseys and say you can't wear them because it promotes hate. Let's draw the line now.

[Goon]

Many see the light after awhile

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374064,374064,1.html

Petey that is a nice piece thanks for sharing that with us.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Petey that is a nice piece thanks for sharing that with us.

There's a quote (and I think its attributed to Winston Churchill) that goes something like "when a young man is not a liberal he has no heart: and when he becomes an old man if he is not a conservative he has no brains".

[sagard]

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

[petey23]

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]