New FCS Board

[DI IN FARGO]

What does all this have to do with the New FCS board?

[PCM]

What does all this have to do with the New FCS board?

What does your sig line have to do with reality?

[Herd]

IMO, the bison admin would be happy to play your fine institution if you Pres and former AD weren't ?ackasses! I don't think anyone is afraid of anything.

[DI IN FARGO]

What does your sig line have to do with reality?

My sig line IS REALITY!!!!

[PCM]

My sig line IS REALITY!!!!

When NDSU plays real DI football, it will be reality.

[Bison06]

Either that, or maybe it is your president, AD, and coach who are really the jackasses in this situation. You obviously aren't objective enought to comment on the subject, so just leave it alone. I don't know that Bison are afraid of losing to the Sioux, but I believe they have their reasons for avoiding that game. If they win, people will say they should win based on all the boasting they've done over the last couple of years. If they lose, they have a lot of egg on their faces. It's a no-win situation for them. I can see why they're hesitant.

I think if we all were objective about the situation over the last 5 years between the two schools, we could agree that neither UND not wanting to play NDSU when we started our transition, nor NDSU doing the same now has anything to do with being afraid of the on-field outcomes. It wasn't good for UND in the past to play NDSU for reasons that have been discussed here and other places ad nauseum, and now it isn't good for NDSU to show the rest of the state that UND is now in the same sub-division in football as NDSU. NDSU has pulled away from the pack a little in the last five years in the eyes of most North Dakotans, why would they want to risk losing all of that, and they would, by playing you guys now. Why do your rival a favor. Let's all be honest with ourselves, this is the reason the game isn't being played and I think all of us realize it. NDSU has never been afraid of UND and vice versa, that's what makes it such a great rivalry. The game will be played again, but not until UND shows it can stand on it's own feet in this new division. I believe it won't take very long for you guys to accomplish that.

[star2city]

I think if we all were objective about the situation over the last 5 years between the two schools, we could agree that neither UND not wanting to play NDSU when we started our transition, nor NDSU doing the same now has anything to do with being afraid of the on-field outcomes. It wasn't good for UND in the past to play NDSU for reasons that have been discussed here and other places ad nauseum, and now it isn't good for NDSU to show the rest of the state that UND is now in the same sub-division in football as NDSU.

There's hope! A Bison fan that thinks rationally!! Agree 100% - each school has their own interests that they are pursuing.

[DI IN FARGO]

Ahh, you're one of those "in the know". This "contract" that was allegedly in the hands of Roger Thomas sure gets brought up a lot. So, you got a copy? There is this thing called a scanner that allows you to make copies and create PDF's of different things, including documents. Surely one of the millions that has seen this "contract" would be capable of doing such a thing and posting a copy on the internet. If someone is capable of emailing it to me, I'll even post it on a website. I assume it was a "fair" contract to both parties, including UND.

I guess we "choose" to blew our "change". Seriously, do you communicate the same way when speaking? You must be one of those guys that gets so worked up reading an internet message board that you can't see straight. Take a breath before typing next time. Jeez.

How's it go? "Anyplace, anywhere, anytime"? Sounds cool. I suppose it works in theory. Is Notre Dame on the schedule yet? How about UCLA? Florida? Florida State? University of NORTH DAKOTA?

http://www.kxmb.com/t/high-school-sports/2654.asp

[NDSUFREAK10]

don't be a stranger to turn on the tv on september 8th and see 19,000 rowdy BISON fans cheering on FCS NDSU! heck, if your game is on tv on FSSN i'll take a look at your 5-7,000 fans!

[choyt3]

http://www.kxmb.com/t/high-school-sports/2654.asp

That's your "proof"?

[Herd]

I think your missing the point, seeing things through your "stream yellow" glasses. "Anyplace, anywhere, anytime" would imply that you don't make excuses for not playing someone. On a side-note, didn't baseball carry through for one more year until the Bison decided they didn't want to play UND anymore??

Edit: Anyplace, anywhere, anytime . . . except und (is that more accurate for everyone). There are you happy? I kinda like it . . . This phrase generally applies to playing upwards anyway.

[Herd]

Every year the und story on the 4 year contract offered by ndsu changes a little more and a little more, and get cloudier and cloudier. Kinda like that fish that you caught that just keeps getting bigger and bigger. You know, its interesting, there are even some people as time goes by that think that terrible thing with the Germans and Jews never really happened. Hummm, interesting.

[Hammersmith]

I agree. Bison zealots such as yourself keep spinning that story just a little bit more each year.

What part is spin? Taylor offered Thomas a four year contract(2004-2007) with alternating locations(F/GF/F/GF) in May of 2003. Thomas sat on it until that fall before refusing to sign it, all the while telling alumni and the media that he wanted the rivalry to continue.

Want some quotes?

Oct 2002:

But UND athletic director Roger Thomas said the Sioux "will do everything in

our power" to keep the rivalry intact.

"Sure, we want to keep it going," Thomas said. "We don't want it to end."

May 2003:

One of college football

[Herd]

Hammer . . . there you go again trying to introduce facts when everyone here is just more comfortable with "fuzzy grayness", and the general passage of time.

Who really knows, maybe . . .

. . . Roger Thomas took a und mandated 6 month sabbatical in 2003 and just didn't get back to Gene, but was well intended

. . . The und press conference was really called to annouce the fall concert schedule at the Alerus. Or maybe it didn't happen at all. Were you there?

. . . Maybe the contract had some "legal jargon" about an "ndsu gf campus" and the lawyers at und got involved to stop it in its tracks. If it weren't for the lawyers, game on!

. . . Maybe Gene Taylor isn't his "real" name

Let the official record show these new facts.

[Herd]

...and you think Roger should have agreed to that deal why? To be nice and help the Bison in their transition?

Yeah, helping your most bitter and hated rival in their transition is the best thing to do in the interest of your own program.

No, I think he should have done what he and his administration were going to do. But he, his administration, and his coaches should have shown some integrity in the situation. I could define integrity for you if you need some help with that concept.

[Bison Dan]

...and you think Roger should have agreed to that deal why? To be nice and help the Bison in their transition?

Yeah, helping your most bitter and hated rival in their transition is the best thing to do in the interest of your own program.

Again please tell your AD and Sioux fans not to hound NDSU about scheduling games. We're set and you have a long way to go.

[star2city]

Again please tell your AD and Sioux fans not to hound NDSU about scheduling games. We're set and you have a long way to go.

Taylor has been quoted within the past year as not wanting to schedule UND because of "academic standards" for DII football programs. That is one of the most laughable statements ever, considering Lennon's recruiting standards and the limited JC-athletes on UND's team relative to NDSU.

The excuses go on from both standpoints. IF UND / NDSU had signed a four year contract, NDSU would have dumped us as soon as they got in the Gateway. Nobody wants to come out and state that the football programs are competitors in the marketplace: UND would have been insane to help NDSU "one-up" them, and NDSU isn't going to help UND move up.

[Herd]

As a business man, I deal with suppliers and contracts each day. Some suppliers are honest, trustworth and deliver results without a lot of talk and promises. Other suppliers will promise you the world, but you cannot trust them and they do not consistently deliver. Sometimes the good supplier will tell you that they cannot meet your requirements. Their integrity and honesty is what makes you want to continue to work with them.

Back in 2003, the bison AD expected to have an honest dealing with RT, meaning you either sign the contract or not, done in an open and honest fashion. RT turned it into a power play after dragging it out to the 11th hour and trying to make his supposed business partner look bad. GT is now done with that dishonest supplier. Both you and I would be done with that supplier if treated in the same manner.

So please defend the decision by und, but don't defend RT's ethics, you cannot.

[dlsiouxfan]

Taylor and Bohl probably can't even spell integrity. If there is any question as to what would have happened one only needs to look at what happened in baseball. The bison thought they'd pound UND in every sport just because they had the brand new DI label on their teams. UND beat their pants off in Fargo and embarassed them so much ndsu decided to break the contract. The bison only wanted to continue the games if they were assured of winning every year, if not they'd just cancel the games and spin some BS about wanting to play games against "better competition." It's also why they won't play now, ndsu doesn't want to lose to their in-state rival so they spin lame-ass excuses like the "academic standards" thing. The funny part is such statements only make Taylor look like an even bigger idiot than has already been proven, due to the Sioux's significantly higher athletic graduation rate and UND's considerably stronger academic reputation than ndsu's.

[star2city]

As a business man, I deal with suppliers and contracts each day. Some suppliers are honest, trustworth and deliver results without a lot of talk and promises. Other suppliers will promise you the world, but you cannot trust them and they do not consistently deliver. Sometimes the good supplier will tell you that they cannot meet your requirements. Their integrity and honesty is what makes you want to continue to work with them.

Back in 2003, the bison AD expected to have an honest dealing with RT, meaning you either sign the contract or not, done in an open and honest fashion. RT turned it into a power play after dragging it out to the 11th hour and trying to make his supposed business partner look bad. GT is now done with that dishonest supplier. Both you and I would be done with that supplier if treated in the same manner.

So please defend the decision by und, but don't defend RT's ethics, you cannot.

Your reference to UND as a "supplier" is very revealing. UND is not now, ever, nor will be a "supplier" for NDSU games: Concordia (StPaul) and Montana Tech were suppliers, but UND will not take on that role.

When NDSU and SDSU announced that they were leaving the NCC, they left a business partnership with the NCC and decided to go off on a competing venture that would have ramifications for all the former NCC schools. The onus was on NDSU and SDSU to provide terms that would be amenable, as they were the ones that walked away from an existing business (NCC) contract. If a partner in a firm walks away and decides to start a competing business, how many existing firms would take kindly to it? Almost all NCC schools did not schedule NDSU, SDSU, and UNC, not out of spite, but because they needed to protect their own recruitment capability as well as the attractiveness of the NCC as a "going concern".

When UNC left the NCC, NDSU didn't schedule them in their first year of transition when UNC desparately needed games. NDSU didn't schedule the game because it would have hurt their chances of DII playoffs. Under the same terms, why would UND schedule NDSU when even a win could have damaged our playoff chances?

As far as RT, how do you know he was not attempting to get DII rule changes passed so UND wouldn't be penalized when he made some of those statements?

Furthermore, how do you know that he if was not attempting to keep the games going beyond four years, even if UND transitioned to DI? NDSU always had a four year contract on the table and played that up in the media, but refused to offer anything beyond that. You can bet NDSU never had any intention of extending the contract beyond four years or with scheduling UND through a DI transition, if it ever occurred. Reasonable people can see that NDSU was just attempting to use UND as it's b**ch to get through a four-year transition.

[Herd]

Nearly everything that Gene Taylor has touched the past 5 years has turned out pretty well. I can see where he wouldn't be very popular up north with your AD situation, but that is mostly sour grapes.

He has never ducked the media and has been open and honest about playing und. He went on the radio with Ed Shultz and Bunning for goodness sake and spoken candidly in what was really a no-win situation. He has really been surprising respectful toward und when you look at it. Your former AD and president were not.

Hopefully his answer will continue to be, no thanks.

[PCM]

When NDSU and SDSU announced that they were leaving the NCC, they left a business partnership with the NCC and decided to go off on a competing venture that would have ramifications for all the former NCC schools. The onus was on NDSU and SDSU to provide terms that would be amenable, as they were the ones that walked away from an existing business (NCC) contract. If a partner in a firm walks away and decides to start a competing business, how many existing firms would take kindly to it? Almost all NCC schools did not schedule NDSU, SDSU, and UNC, not out of spite, but because they needed to protect their own recruitment capability as well as the attractiveness of the NCC as a "going concern".

Best explanation yet.

[Matt]

It seems to me things have turned out very well for both programs. Isn't this more of a fan issue than a genuine problem for either program?

[DamStrait]

As a business man, I deal with suppliers and contracts each day. Some suppliers are honest, trustworth and deliver results without a lot of talk and promises. Other suppliers will promise you the world, but you cannot trust them and they do not consistently deliver. Sometimes the good supplier will tell you that they cannot meet your requirements. Their integrity and honesty is what makes you want to continue to work with them.

Back in 2003, the bison AD expected to have an honest dealing with RT, meaning you either sign the contract or not, done in an open and honest fashion. RT turned it into a power play after dragging it out to the 11th hour and trying to make his supposed business partner look bad. GT is now done with that dishonest supplier. Both you and I would be done with that supplier if treated in the same manner.

So please defend the decision by und, but don't defend RT's ethics, you cannot.

The above is nothing but the unsubstantiated ramblings of a UND-hating troll.

[dakotadan]

Our AD could beat up your AD.

Well, really, he could.