Buning Problem?

[BigGreyAnt41]

It comes as no surprise that there are as many people on this board who know how to do the AD's job as there are who know how to do the jobs of coaches and scouts.

Not to mention referees.

Wait.....

[Diggler]

It comes as no surprise that there are as many people on this board who know how to do the AD's job as there are who know how to do the jobs of coaches and scouts.

Don't forget about me knowing how to do Schlossman's job!

[The Sicatoka]

Hakstol would sign a new contract in a heartbeat (and no I am not going to give the link or my source).

Sure he would. He'd be a fool not to.

But is that enough to keep him if the next level comes a calling? My opinion: Nope. Just like Toews signed when he was ready, Hak would do the same and who could blame him.

... over 6300 postes and still nothing to show for it(that again is directed at you Sicatoka)!

I knew that Ziegler was going to REA days before it was announced (ask Walrus or UND92,96 or PCM or jimdahl). But I also learned that he didn't want it talked about publicly until he told his team so I waited to start that thread until it was officially announced. That's having a source and being responsible with it.

6300 posts don't give me credibility. The information, and how it was used responsibly, does.

[fs1]

So let me ask you PCM, would you leave him dangling and just play it out and see what happens when the contract is done, or would you get him signed. Maybe you got caught up in Chauncey Billups resigning with the Pistons? But this isnt like the NBA where you can offer him a ton more money than the others and because of that he stays. So yes some of us in this instance and others could do the job of the AD the right way or maybe we could be like Mr Buning and just go about hiring more assistants for our own assistants assitants or make up another job in our department or whatever he is busy doing. Job one is sign Hakstol!

[PCM]

6300 posts don't give me credibility. The information, and how it was used responsibly, does.

I thought it was your dashing good looks. Shows you how much I know.

[The Sicatoka]

I thought it was your dashing good looks. Shows you how much I know.

Of course those too, but then again all this does is pad the post count.

[PCM]

So let me ask you PCM, would you leave him dangling and just play it out and see what happens when the contract is done, or would you get him signed.

So let me ask you, fs1. Do you remember when Dean Blais contract was coming up and everyone was screaming, yelling and gnashing their teeth about how Roger Thomas just had to get it done? I'm sure that if not for all the experts on this board, Roger would have just sat in his office twiddling his thumbs until Dean's contract expired. Then he would have said, "Whoops! My bad!"

[PCM]

Of course those too, but then again all this does is pad the post count.

I would never do that!

[fs1]

Sicatoka, your putting Ziegler to REA as your as your proof of having inside information? No offense to Mr Ziegler, I am sure he is a great guy, but who is he, what did he do and what is he going to do at REA. Seriously I dont know, let alone care. So please dont answer the question I asked earlier. I like most dont think that is worth knowing or caring about,let alone consider it inside information. I consider inside information something that matters. Again no offense to Mr Ziegler. I am sure he will do fine at whatever it is he will be doing at REA. Its just not something that matters at all. So if I were you I would try to come up with another example of having a source and access to inside information. Honestly I cant believe you used that as your example. I thought about turning on Saturday Night Live, but no way they can top the laugh I got from that.

[The Sicatoka]

Sicatoka, your putting Ziegler to REA as your as your proof of having inside information? No offense to Mr Ziegler, I am sure he is a great guy, but who is he, what did he do and what is he going to do at REA. Seriously I dont know, let alone care. So please dont answer the question I asked earlier. I like most dont think that is worth knowing or caring about,let alone consider it inside information. I consider inside information something that matters. Again no offense to Mr Ziegler. I am sure he will do fine at whatever it is he will be doing at REA. Its just not something that matters at all. So if I were you I would try to come up with another example of having a source and access to inside information. Honestly I cant believe you used that as your example. I thought about turning on Saturday Night Live, but no way they can top the laugh I got from that.

A long-time UND coach leaves and you don't know or care?

It would have worked perfectly for your cause; I figured you to use it as "more proof" and have pinned it on Buning.

[fs1]

Sicatoka, for gosh sakes he was the baseball coach! Again no offense at all to Mr Ziegler, but I dont think it really matters in the big scheme of things either at UND baseball or REA. I wonder if we will retain all the players or if mabye some will turn pro( no offense to the players but they arent the same caliber as the hockey players) But SERIOUSLY, your putting that on the same level as Hakstol when it comes to leaving or having inside information? I know it is late , but come on, in a comment earlier I talked about common sense, lets use it.

[The Sicatoka]

A 14 year head coach leaves.

You should be trying to use that as an indictment against Buning, but instead it's no big deal.

I don't get you man. It's like you have one thing and don't see the bigger picture that you could've used in your favor of making your case.

Heck, UND is looking for both baseball and softball coaches while looking for a conference. Common sense says you should be all over Buning for not getting things stable (fill openings ASAP) while looking for a DI conference. Instead you're locked onto something that isn't as immediatly pressing to an AD searching for an all-sports home and being able to tell them names of head coaches of teams, not to mention heading into the first of five DI transition seasons. (There're a couple months until Hak's team hits the ice; if no deal is done then, then I start to wonder.)

No charge for helping you with your side.

[fs1]

Sicatoka, I know Tori Hunter's contract is up this year, and no I dont have any inside information in regards to that, but my boys get a kick out of Jason Kubal for some reason, just wondering if you have any inside info on his upcoming status, is he out of options to be sent to the minors,will he continue his good play, is he going to resign with the Twins, heck is his contract even up? If you know anyting please let us know! I am just trying to put your level of inside information into perspective for you.

I dont think you get it, the lack of actually not having baseball or softball coaches doesnt matter, not one bit. I see they named an interim baseball coach, where is all the talk about who will actually get the job full time! Whereas the top college hockey coach left dangling into the final year of his contract is HUGE!

It must be way past your bedtime! Lucky for you this is late and mabye most people wont see your "inside iformation", I wish they would, the laugh is well worth reading it. Nobody really cares if he left ,stayed or whatever. Again no offense to him,but it is the cold hard truth. Ok I guess someone does, obviously you do!

I am sure you have seen Mr Buning in his politician and cheerleader mode, but this goes beyond that. Again as I said earlier mabye you should just sit this thread out! Even if you have experience in either of those, there is no room for it in this thread. Hey I have an idea,mabye you can start the " who will be the new baseball coach" and " who will be the new softball coach" threads(no offense to the players or coaches), I bet you have tons of inside information to share! Now I dont care who you are , thats funny!

[the"source"]

Sicatoka, I know Tori Hunter's contract is up this year, and no I dont have any inside information in regards to that, but my boys get a kick out of Jason Kubal for some reason, just wondering if you have any inside info on his upcoming status, is he out of options to be sent to the minors,will he continue his good play, is he going to resign with the Twins, heck is his contract even up? If you know anyting please let us know! I am just trying to put your level of inside information into perspective for you.

I dont think you get it, the lack of actually not having baseball or softball coaches doesnt matter, not one bit. I see they named an interim baseball coach, where is all the talk about who will actually get the job full time! Whereas the top college hockey coach left dangling into the final year of his contract is HUGE!

It must be way past your bedtime! Lucky for you this is late and mabye most people wont see your "inside iformation", I wish they would, the laugh is well worth reading it. Nobody really cares if he left ,stayed or whatever. Again no offense to him,but it is the cold hard truth. Ok I guess someone does, obviously you do!

I am sure you have seen Mr Buning in his politician and cheerleader mode, but this goes beyond that. Again as I said earlier mabye you should just sit this thread out! Even if you have experience in either of those, there is no room for it in this thread. Hey I have an idea,mabye you can start the " who will be the new baseball coach" and " who will be the new softball coach" threads(no offense to the players or coaches), I bet you have tons of inside information to share! Now I dont care who you are , thats funny!

fs1 well said! Sicatoka = No inside info of things that matter. I am sure you still have cred with all the people who are NOT in the loop

[JacksonW]

Sicatoka, I know Tori Hunter's contract is up this year, and no I dont have any inside information in regards to that, but my boys get a kick out of Jason Kubal for some reason, just wondering if you have any inside info on his upcoming status, is he out of options to be sent to the minors,will he continue his good play, is he going to resign with the Twins, heck is his contract even up? If you know anyting please let us know! I am just trying to put your level of inside information into perspective for you.

I dont think you get it, the lack of actually not having baseball or softball coaches doesnt matter, not one bit. I see they named an interim baseball coach, where is all the talk about who will actually get the job full time! Whereas the top college hockey coach left dangling into the final year of his contract is HUGE!

It must be way past your bedtime! Lucky for you this is late and mabye most people wont see your "inside iformation", I wish they would, the laugh is well worth reading it. Nobody really cares if he left ,stayed or whatever. Again no offense to him,but it is the cold hard truth. Ok I guess someone does, obviously you do!

I am sure you have seen Mr Buning in his politician and cheerleader mode, but this goes beyond that. Again as I said earlier mabye you should just sit this thread out! Even if you have experience in either of those, there is no room for it in this thread. Hey I have an idea,mabye you can start the " who will be the new baseball coach" and " who will be the new softball coach" threads(no offense to the players or coaches), I bet you have tons of inside information to share! Now I dont care who you are , thats funny!

MAYBE readers would meet you halfway if your posts didn't read like junior high angst. That is what your lecture implies. Attempt to persuade not harangue, it really does work better.

[The Sicatoka]

Let's try this one last time:

If you really were trying to put together a case against Buning you would:

- cite firing a womens hockey coach mid-season

- not dealing head-on with Glas when he was dangling UND's MBB future over an job at UNI

- allowing two open positions to occur (base/softball) when just heading into transition and conference hunting

Then you would bring in all of the wonderful rumor and inuendo that you're fond of calling "inside" knowledge, things like the hiring of Glas' replacement and how that went, or the same for womens hockey, or Dale looking at leaving (in 2007, as in 2002), or Hakstol's contract not being reworked (with 10 months to go).

There's enough out there that if you really wanted to make a case you could. You could sew a few facts in with some good, juicy "I was told" and have quite a tale of intrigue.

UND Athletics is an enterprise headed by the AD. To look at it from only hockey or football is a mistake in reviewing what the AD is doing at any time.

You're going about it by thinking one-dimensionally, and acting that way. That pattern of action doesn't tend to bring folks to your point of view.

[LennonIsTheMan]

I have to say that I have agreed with fs1 on this topic way more than I have with The Sicatoka. However, in this instance I have to say that I disagree with fs1 in regards to the whole Ziegler issue. First of all, to have a baseball coach stay at the University of North Dakota for as long as Ziegler did, speaks volumes of his loyalty to his job and the University. Look at the budgets he has to deal with on an annual basis, all of which he basically raises himself with his players being the primary employees. He also has very limited money to work with in terms of scholarships. All that being said, he has been here for 14 years and has a great track record in my eyes when considering the financial constraints he has had to work with.

I really get upset with some UND fans when they say that "other" sports that aren't their favorites really don't matter in the big scheme of things. Loyal and true UND fans will cheer for every team in every sport. Real UND fans don't just cheer for hockey, or just football, or just basketball. It really annoys me to hear someone say that a loss like Kelvin Ziegler won't matter. More often than not, it's the hockey fans that have the 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to cheering for other UND athletics and supporting them. I often hear comments like, "who cares, it's not hockey." I love watching UND hockey and supporting them, as well as football, and basketball, and baseball, and volleyball, and so on. I just really disagree with the fans who have the elitist attitude toward certain sports at UND. I think there are fans of specific sports at UND, and then there are pure, true fans of all UND athletics.

Losing Kelvin as our baseball coach hurts, IMO.

[Bison Dan]

I have to say that I have agreed with fs1 on this topic way more than I have with The Sicatoka. However, in this instance I have to say that I disagree with fs1 in regards to the whole Ziegler issue. First of all, to have a baseball coach stay at the University of North Dakota for as long as Ziegler did, speaks volumes of his loyalty to his job and the University. Look at the budgets he has to deal with on an annual basis, all of which he basically raises himself with his players being the primary employees. He also has very limited money to work with in terms of scholarships. All that being said, he has been here for 14 years and has a great track record in my eyes when considering the financial constraints he has had to work with.

I really get upset with some UND fans when they say that "other" sports that aren't their favorites really don't matter in the big scheme of things. Loyal and true UND fans will cheer for every team in every sport. Real UND fans don't just cheer for hockey, or just football, or just basketball. It really annoys me to hear someone say that a loss like Kelvin Ziegler won't matter. More often than not, it's the hockey fans that have the 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to cheering for other UND athletics and supporting them. I often hear comments like, "who cares, it's not hockey." I love watching UND hockey and supporting them, as well as football, and basketball, and baseball, and volleyball, and so on. I just really disagree with the fans who have the elitist attitude toward certain sports at UND. I think there are fans of specific sports at UND, and then there are pure, true fans of all UND athletics.

Losing Kelvin as our baseball coach hurts, IMO.

I agree with Lennonistheman, way to may UND fans (it seems) only care about Hockey and FB. A few views of someone on the outside looking in:

1. With hockey your number 1 sport and having a good coach why isn't he signed to a long term contract?

2. Why the friction with Bunning and FB program? If you have a good program leave it alone! (Management 101)

3. Why does Bunning discount any legency UND ties for new coach openings?

If seems to me that Mr. Bunning wants his OWN people in athletic dept. coaches and all.

[fs1]

LennonistheMan and Bison Dan,the references to Mr Ziegler and nobody caring are related to the situation with the AD. I dont think his leaving is of the same level of concern with the situations regarding Lennon, Hakstol, and their relationships with the AD, and the hiring of the new womans hockey coach and the treatment given Steve Johnson during that process. So truth be told in regards to the Ziegler situation and the AD, it doesnt matter and isnt a concern. Just as the lack of softball coach doenst matter either in regards to the AD situation.

It doesnt mean me or anyone else doesnt care about those programs, we all want UND to win and succeed no matter what the sport it, but facts are facts, and some programs carry more weight and carry the load here at UND. If Pete Carroll contemplated leaving USC because of his realtionship with the AD there, it would be of much more concern to the masses than having an vacant softball coach or the long time baseball coach leaving. It doesnt mean they dont care for those programs,but in relation to that would be Carroll situation it just wouldnt matter, no one would care about the other 2 situations. So in refernece to it here at UND, they just dont matter.

JacksonW, junior high angst? Heck probably 95 percent of Sicatoka's posts are junior high angst and we dont hear a word about it. Attmept to persuade? I am begining to think that Sicatoka is perhaps related to Mr Buning. But I guess one feels he has inside information and it pertains to the baseball coach stepping down, and plays that off as important hard hitting inside information, how can one persuade him. He lives in a dream world where he knows all and tells all. He should step outside of it once and a while.

Sicatoka, mabye you should try to get your hands on a very informative letter from a prominant alumni regarding the situation with the AD and his handling of certain situations. Now that would be having a source or having inside information, and might be quite inofrmative to you! And you might actually be able to see the other side of the politician/cheerleader. Check with the source that gave you the baseball coach info! If you dont have any luck check back with me.

Junior high angst? Sometimes a person ,even one with over 6300 posts and all his credability that comes with those posts,just needs to be told the cold hard truth. He finally gave us the proof of why he has credability, holding back on the baseball coach situation, heck he knew about it days before it came out! He just didnt realize we werent all on the edge of our seats and wouldnt spend months talking about it. But in reality all it did was give us a very good laugh and prove what I said, "over 6300 posts and still nothing to show for it.

[the"source"]

LennonistheMan and Bison Dan,the references to Mr Ziegler and nobody caring are related to the situation with the AD. I dont think his leaving is of the same level of concern with the situations regarding Lennon, Hakstol, and their relationships with the AD, and the hiring of the new womans hockey coach and the treatment given Steve Johnson during that process. So truth be told in regards to the Ziegler situation and the AD, it doesnt matter and isnt a concern. Just as the lack of softball coach doenst matter either in regards to the AD situation.

It doesnt mean me or anyone else doesnt care about those programs, we all want UND to win and succeed no matter what the sport it, but facts are facts, and some programs carry more weight and carry the load here at UND. If Pete Carroll contemplated leaving USC because of his realtionship with the AD there, it would be of much more concern to the masses than having an vacant softball coach or the long time baseball coach leaving. It doesnt mean they dont care for those programs,but in relation to that would be Carroll situation it just wouldnt matter, no one would care about the other 2 situations. So in refernece to it here at UND, they just dont matter.

JacksonW, junior high angst? Heck probably 95 percent of Sicatoka's posts are junior high angst and we dont hear a word about it. Attmept to persuade? I am begining to think that Sicatoka is perhaps related to Mr Buning. But I guess one feels he has inside information and it pertains to the baseball coach stepping down, and plays that off as important hard hitting inside information, how can one persuade him. He lives in a dream world where he knows all and tells all. He should step outside of it once and a while.

Sicatoka, mabye you should try to get your hands on a very informative letter from a prominant alumni regarding the situation with the AD and his handling of certain situations. Now that would be having a source or having inside information, and might be quite inofrmative to you! And you might actually be able to see the other side of the politician/cheerleader. Check with the source that gave you the baseball coach info! If you dont have any luck check back with me.

Junior high angst? Sometimes a person ,even one with over 6300 posts and all his credability that comes with those posts,just needs to be told the cold hard truth. He finally gave us the proof of why he has credability, holding back on the baseball coach situation, heck he knew about it days before it came out! He just didnt realize we werent all on the edge of our seats and wouldnt spend months talking about it. But in reality all it did was give us a very good laugh and prove what I said, "over 6300 posts and still nothing to show for it.

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!!!! sICATOKA = NO INFO WORTH POSTING

The letter is well known I am sure he and all the other well connected board members (over 6,000 post's) have seen it! For the record I had a copy of the letter 6 weeks ago and I did not speak of it on this well connected board. It's Like The BIG sICATOKA says! It is what you do with the information and how you protect your source is what matters.

sICATOKA you have much to learn my child!

[7NationalTitles]

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!!!! sICATOKA = NO INFO WORTH POSTING

The letter is well known I am sure he and all the other well connected board members (over 6,000 post's) have seen it! For the record I had a copy of the letter 6 weeks ago and I did not speak of it on this well connected board. It's Like The BIG sICATOKA says! It is what you do with the information and how you protect your source is what matters.

sICATOKA you have much to learn my child!

Heck, I don't even have 100 posts yet and I've been privileged enough to see the letter in reference when it first came out. I guess after all that you don't need to have thousands of posts to be part of the "real chosen few", not a message board "chosen few".

Sicatoka, you mentioned previously how you withheld your ground-breaking news about the baseball coach leaving because it was the right thing to do and wouldn't be prudent for you to divulge that information. (I'm sorry, but baseball at UND is about the same level as women's rowing at the U of MN. Even though we all support the programs of our own institution, some unfortunately fall outside the realm of where most people care a great deal about). So, Sicatoka, if you felt it isn't wise to divulge the info that you had about Ziegler, then why last year when I and a couple others were getting all over #1HakFan for divulging recruit information before it was public, did you not weigh in with your two cents then and champion the cause we were making if you are so noble (as you claim you are) for not divulging information before it is public. Rather, I was blamed for making someone not post here anymore even though I was trying to make a point with the poster about divulging non-public information. And I'm sorry, there are many, many people that are aware of the Buning situation and his ineptitude that cause this to be considered more public than non-public information.

There should be many things at the top of Buning's list of things to do. Signing Hakstol to a long-term deal is one of them. Sorry PCM, but who cares at this moment in time if Hakstol decides sometime before the contract is up that he wants to move on to a higher level. Good for him if he does. That still doesn't mean because that alternative may be out there you can't go and sign Hakstol now. Even as inept as Maturi has shown he can be at times, didn't he still sign Lucia to a long-term extension through 2011? (a year or two ago) when at the time when he still had two or three years remaining on his other contract. At least Maturi knows that hockey is one of his bread and butter programs and it is essential to have the intricate pieces in place. Yet Hakstol has one season remaining on his contract and he has no extension. Oh wait, it must have been because Lucia won two national titles and didn't just make it to three frozen fours in his first three years. We need to wait until the season starts in three months to first be worried as Sicatoka says. Please, get off your high horse and give me a break. We should be worried now. Heck we should have been worried shortly after the third consecutive frozen four appearance this past spring when there was yet no talk about a Hakstol extension coming from the AD's office.

Bottom line, there is a problem in the AD's office and it needs to be corrected.

[GeauxSioux]

The story regarding Ziegler and the fact that we are not actively looking for a replacement until next April, I find interesting. To me it implies that baseball will be gone soon at UND. The fact that a person knew this information and didn't put it out in public is admirable.

Buning will never make everyone happy. That isn't his job. His job is to run a fiscally sound athletic department with the best possible results from the teams associated with that department. That is a mighty fine line to walk. The fact that an alumni, isn't pleased with Buning shouldn't surprise anyone. The Sicatoka's old signature...

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- William Henry "Bill" Cosby, Jr., Ph.D.

Stop the bickering and let's all say it together now... "GO SIOUX!!!"

[The Sicatoka]

O'Keefe's letter to Buning? Seen it. Read it. Old news. I was embarrassed for both recipient and sender. After reading it my question was, "Did Tim send one like it to Dave Hakstol after Dave by-passed Steve Johnson for open positions ... twice?" But I'm not "inside" so my take matters not. Oh well. (shrug)

Like GeauxSioux said:

Buning will never make everyone happy. That isn't his job. His job is to run a fiscally sound athletic department with the best possible results from the teams associated with that department. That is a mighty fine line to walk. The fact that an alumni, isn't pleased with Buning shouldn't surprise anyone. The Sicatoka's old signature...

At this point I could start another thread like the "Buning's Day Planner" thread of long ago, but I'm not "inside" to know that Buning needs to:

- be working on DI schedules for 2008 and beyond including finding conference homes for the teams,

- get coaches under contract for and through the transition in all sports,

- continue to work on a facilities master plan so the teams have space to train, and most importantly,

- create and implement a budget that will work for UND during the transition.

The Bottom Line:

Mr. Buning is either doing his job the way his superiors (President Kupchella and newly named VP for General Administration Phil Harmeson) expect him to, or he'll be gone. It's that simple.

[PCM]

Could someone please direct me to the post where anyone who's been posting here a long time and has a lot of posts claimed that it automatically inferred credibility? Because as far as I know, none of us long-time posters have ever claimed or even implied that total number of posts has any bearing on our level of knowledge about UND athletics. That straw man is continually set up and knocked down the so-called "insiders." It's ridiculous.

The beauty of this board is that each of us has access to different types of information and different perspectives on various issues. And each of us can choose to post or not post what we know. Each of us can weigh what we read and hear against what we hear or read from others. Nobody has a monopoly on "inside information." There are almost always two sides to an issue and nobody knows everything about both sides.

What I do know is that there are people reading this board who love to see controversy, turmoil and infighting at UND. When Sioux fans choose to publicly badmouth some aspect of athletics in general or one program in particular, it provides ammunition for UND's detractors. They use it against the university every chance they get. They use it to confirm their warped perspective about how UND operates.

I'm not telling anyone what to post or not to post. That's up to each person to decide. Just know that when you choose to air dirty laundry in public, you

[THETRIOUXPER]

O'Keefe's letter to Buning? Seen it. Read it. Old news. I was embarrassed for both recipient and sender. After reading it my question was, "Did Tim send one like it to Dave Hakstol after Dave by-passed Steve Johnson for open positions ... twice?" But I'm not "inside" so my take matters not. Oh well. (shrug)

Like GeauxSioux said:

At this point I could start another thread like the "Buning's Day Planner" thread of long ago, but I'm not "inside" to know that Buning needs to:

- be working on DI schedules for 2008 and beyond including finding conference homes for the teams,

- get coaches under contract for and through the transition in all sports,

- continue to work on a facilities master plan so the teams have space to train, and most importantly,

- create and implement a budget that will work for UND during the transition.

The Bottom Line:

Mr. Buning is either doing his job the way his superiors (President Kupchella and newly named VP for General Administration Phil Harmeson) expect him to, or he'll be gone. It's that simple.

Agreeing or disagreeing with the letter is a matter of personal choice. However, I think it does show some disharmony between the AD's office and some alumni. I do know for a fact that there are certain alumin/season ticket holders that do feel somewhat "alienated" by some of the decision's that have been made by the AD. With the move to D1 on the horizon, these are not the people that you want to upset. They are the ones who have, and will continue to be, the finacial support behind the sports programs. "Whizzing in their oatmeal," and then asking them for $$$ may not be a good move at this point.