who has a Hand Gun ?

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Unarmed and vulnerable

Note the Date on this article

Thursday, August 31, 2006

Bradford B. Wiles

Wiles, of New Castle, is a graduate student at Virginia Tech.

On Aug. 21 at about 9:20 a.m., my graduate-level class was evacuated from the Squires Student Center. We were interrupted in class and not informed of anything other than the following words: "You need to get out of the building."

Upon exiting the classroom, we were met at the doors leading outside by two armor-clad policemen with fully automatic weapons, plus their side arms. Once outside, there were several more officers with either fully automatic rifles and pump shotguns, and policemen running down the street, pistols drawn.

It was at this time that I realized that I had no viable means of protecting myself.

Please realize that I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun in the commonwealth of Virginia, and do so on a regular basis. However, because I am a Virginia Tech student, I am prohibited from carrying at school because of Virginia Tech's student policy, which makes possession of a handgun an expellable offense, but not a prosecutable crime.

I had entrusted my safety, and the safety of others to the police. In light of this, there are a few things I wish to point out.

First, I never want to have my safety fully in the hands of anyone else, including the police.

Second, I considered bringing my gun with me to campus, but did not due to the obvious risk of losing my graduate career, which is ridiculous because had I been shot and killed, there would have been no graduate career for me anyway.

Third, and most important, I am trained and able to carry a concealed handgun almost anywhere in Virginia and other states that have reciprocity with Virginia, but cannot carry where I spend more time than anywhere else because, somehow, I become a threat to others when I cross from the town of Blacksburg onto Virginia Tech's campus.

Of all of the emotions and thoughts that were running through my head that morning, the most overwhelming one was of helplessness.

That feeling of helplessness has been difficult to reconcile because I knew I would have been safer with a proper means to defend myself.

I would also like to point out that when I mentioned to a professor that I would feel safer with my gun, this is what she said to me, "I would feel safer if you had your gun."

The policy that forbids students who are legally licensed to carry in Virginia needs to be changed.

I am qualified and capable of carrying a concealed handgun and urge you to work with me to allow my most basic right of self-defense, and eliminate my entrusting my safety and the safety of my classmates to the government.

This incident makes it clear that it is time that Virginia Tech and the commonwealth of Virginia let me take responsibility for my safety.

Unarmed and vulnerable - Roanoke.com

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we seem to have a lot of stat people around here

Moderator edit -- full text of article removed, please post link/quotes

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http://www.nnseek.com/e/mn.politics/americ..._81504772m.html

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Got to love the Granny http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267540,00.html

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& last (?) but not least Uncle Ted (I'm not a big Ted Fan but he makes alot of sense here) http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/

[elkman]

I do not own a gun, but my husband does, and I would use it if I needed to.

I own guns and have taken several classes on gun saftey with my sons. I think most people would use deadlly force to protect there family. Shooting a hand gun is alot harder than most people know and it takes alot of practice to hit what your shooting at.As an nra member and avid hunter I support the right to own a gun.

[HockeyMom]

I have a Ruger P9 .45

[Siouxmama]

I own guns and have taken several classes on gun saftey with my sons. I think most people would use deadlly force to protect there family. Shooting a hand gun is alot harder than most people know and it takes alot of practice to hit what your shooting at.As an nra member and avid hunter I support the right to own a gun.

I do know how to use a gun. I have used one many times. I just dont own one.

Yes, protecting my family would be a reason to use it.

[dlsiouxfan]

That loud whoosh you just heard was you completely missing the point. I guess the fact that you can't identify a worthless statistic probably shouldn't surprise me. Reporting the amount of GUN VIOLENCE after there aren't anymore guns is stupid, instead report the amount of violence after the guns are removed from the equation. I'm sure that the recent calls for bans on swords and kitchen knives has nothing to do with crime not vanishing with the guns in England. What's next blunt objects and things with pointy corners, I guess I should buy stock in Nerf.

A gun is a tool, nothing more, it isn't evil or blood thirsty. "People who don't have guns don't kill people with guns." Brilliant, people who don't have guns beat people to death, stab them, drown them, strangle them, run them over with cars, poison them, fly planes into buildings, burn them, bury them alive, etc... And that's assuming the CRIMINALS obey the law and don't illegally procure guns. People were murdered long before the first firearm was ever manufactured and will be murdered long after guns are gone. A gun is a "great disrupter of the natural order" it allows a 5'5" 110lb woman to stop a would be rapist, a 85 year old grandmother to kill a 6'3" 275 pound home intruder. But you're right, people who don't have guns don't kill people with guns, of course the 5'5" young woman and the grandmother are raped or killed, or both.

No doubt this thread was started in response to the tragedy at Virginia Tech, many will use the actions of that madman to push for oppressive gun control legislation but direct your attention to HB 1572 defeated in a Virginia House of Representative subcommittee. The bill would have allowed concealed carry on campus by those licensed by the state to do so. Imagine if Prof. Liviu Librescu, the holocaust survivor who was shot and killed while using his body to barricade a door while his students escaped, had been allowed to legally carry a concealed weapon to work. Instead of killing 32 people Cho Seung Hui may well have quickly received two to the chest and one to the head, saving many lives.

I'll save you some time responding to the previous paragraph, just copy and paste this "But, but, but, if there were no guns then Cho Seung Hui couldn't have killed people with guns!!!" Correct, score one for DaveK, if there weren't any guns Seung Hui would have been a perfectly sane, productive member of society. Of course the rest of us know that instead he would have bought a box cutter and crashed a 747 into the engineering building, or bought a few gallons of gas and a Zippo and torched his dorm in the middle of the night, etc... Evil people will do evil things with whatever they have at hand, guns allow the rest of us to even the odds.

Anyway, my back is getting sore trying to dig your head out of the sand, I'm done. Best wishes.

I fail to see how the situation on that campus could have been made any better even if the place had been loaded to the gills with firearm owners. How many other people could have been senselessly murdered in the panic that campus had to be in. Police officers have training to handle such situations but your average person doesn't and that leaves a lot of room for error especially in a situation where panic and emotions can overrule logic. With everyone shooting how could your average person have even been expected to even know who the bad guy is? It's not like the movies.

Personally, I support the rights of people to own guns because of I'm a strong believer in the Constitution and all of the rights it conveys, however I also see little use for hand guns and other guns that aren't used for purposes such as hunting. I don't buy the protection excuse because guns don't stop bullets and for the most part create a false sense of security. I grew up here in ND and have many friends and relatives who own guns both for hunting and recreational purposes. My experience is that those who own them for hunting purposes have been very responsible while for the most part those who have them for "protection" own them as some sort of macho toy to help them compensate for their own insecurities. I know I'm in the minority on this board, but after reading this the last few days I just had to get my two cents in.

[Goon]

I have a Ruger P9 .45

I guess we are both off Dave_K's list of people that he will be visiting.

[siouxguyinstpaul]

http://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

[siouxguyinstpaul]

[STS]

I fail to see how the situation on that campus could have been made any better even if the place had been loaded to the gills with firearm owners. How many other people could have been senselessly murdered in the panic that campus had to be in. Police officers have training to handle such situations but your average person doesn't and that leaves a lot of room for error especially in a situation where panic and emotions can overrule logic. With everyone shooting how could your average person have even been expected to even know who the bad guy is? It's not like the movies.

Personally, I support the rights of people to own guns because of I'm a strong believer in the Constitution and all of the rights it conveys, however I also see little use for hand guns and other guns that aren't used for purposes such as hunting. I don't buy the protection excuse because guns don't stop bullets and for the most part create a false sense of security. I grew up here in ND and have many friends and relatives who own guns both for hunting and recreational purposes. My experience is that those who own them for hunting purposes have been very responsible while for the most part those who have them for "protection" own them as some sort of macho toy to help them compensate for their own insecurities. I know I'm in the minority on this board, but after reading this the last few days I just had to get my two cents in.

Since owning a handgun is limited to those at least 21 years of age the already low percentage of those who choose to carry would be restricted even further. Part of the required training to obtain a concealed weapons permit is learning how to identify threats that call for deadly force, it wouldn't be the Wild West with everyone strapping a gunbelt on and swaggering around campus starting duels, like you said, it's not like in the movies. In fact, even if guns were allowed on campus is unlikely that one would have been in a position to stop that particular threat. Something to think about, if you are a criminal or preparing to commit a crime, how good does a gun-free zone look? You're almost guaranteed to be unopposed. The thing many people who don't own guns or oppose private ownership don't realize is that they benefit from the deterrent provided by the ability of others to own guns. Would the threat of getting shot have deterred this nutbag, I'm guessing not, but then again he did file off serial numbers from guns he legally purchased (filled out NCIS form and submitted photo id) so who knows.

As far as providing a false sense of security, I guess I don't see it that way, it's not like gun owners start leaving their doors unlocked and storing large sums of money near open windows. In fact, I would say that gun owners are one of the most responsible segments of society. Or maybe you're right and it's just a macho thing, right Hockeymom, Siouxmama and Sioux-cia?

[Goon]

In fact, I would say that gun owners are one of the most responsible segments of society.

I think your right on there.

[HockeyMom]

As far as providing a false sense of security, I guess I don't see it that way, it's not like gun owners start leaving their doors unlocked and storing large sums of money near open windows. In fact, I would say that gun owners are one of the most responsible segments of society. Or maybe you're right and it's just a macho thing, right Hockeymom, Siouxmama and Sioux-cia?

Mine was a duty weapon when I worked in LE. I haven't used it since, it's locked in the gun cabinet.

[Fetch]

Do you have handcuffs too

[HockeyMom]

Do you have handcuffs too

I borrowed them to a friend........

[Sioux-cia]

I borrowed them to a friend........

And you're not getting them back anytime soon!!!

[Siouxmama]

And you're not getting them back anytime soon!!!

Somebody should tell Sioux-cia's 'advisor' about this. I'm not sure a 24 hour notice for Prp would be sufficient here.

[Sioux-cia]

Somebody should tell Sioux-cia's 'advisor' about this. I'm not sure a 24 hour notice for Prp would be sufficient here.

Now why would you want to go and do that?

*digs out the red wig, shoe inserts and practices answering to Siouxmama*

[Siouxmama]

Now why would you want to go and do that?

*digs out the red wig, shoe inserts and practices answering to Siouxmama*

[dlsiouxfan]

Since owning a handgun is limited to those at least 21 years of age the already low percentage of those who choose to carry would be restricted even further. Part of the required training to obtain a concealed weapons permit is learning how to identify threats that call for deadly force, it wouldn't be the Wild West with everyone strapping a gunbelt on and swaggering around campus starting duels, like you said, it's not like in the movies. In fact, even if guns were allowed on campus is unlikely that one would have been in a position to stop that particular threat. Something to think about, if you are a criminal or preparing to commit a crime, how good does a gun-free zone look? You're almost guaranteed to be unopposed. The thing many people who don't own guns or oppose private ownership don't realize is that they benefit from the deterrent provided by the ability of others to own guns. Would the threat of getting shot have deterred this nutbag, I'm guessing not, but then again he did file off serial numbers from guns he legally purchased (filled out NCIS form and submitted photo id) so who knows.

As far as providing a false sense of security, I guess I don't see it that way, it's not like gun owners start leaving their doors unlocked and storing large sums of money near open windows. In fact, I would say that gun owners are one of the most responsible segments of society. Or maybe you're right and it's just a macho thing, right Hockeymom, Siouxmama and Sioux-cia?

Police officers have years of training in identifying threats that require lethal force and yet still make mistakes, but you're average citizen after a few classes is supposed to be cool as a cucumber. I doubt it. The false sense of security alluded to above refers to the fact that despite how many guns you own your no safer than the rest of us and more likely to have you or someone you love fall victim to a tragic accident. I'll agree with you I've met many gun owners who were very responsible, but I'd also say I've met many more (especially those who owned handguns for "protection") who own handguns to compensate for their own irrational fears or insecurities.

Lastly, to clarify my position I support your right to own a handgun in much the same way I support your right to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol. It is your personal choice and I respect that. Just don't expect me to agree with your decision or buy this bull that we are all somehow safer because every Tom, Dick, & Harry in this country can purchase a lethal weapon if they choose to.

[Fetch]

How about Mace or Pepper Spray ? or Stun Guns ? or Tazer ?

I would think every Female would carry mace/pepper spray around here after Dru

[Siouxmama]

How about Mace or Pepper Spray ? or Stun Guns ? or Tazer ?

I would think every Female would carry mace/pepper spray around here after Dru

After I thought about purchasing a gun, after Dru was kidnapped, and didn't buy one, I really never thought about anything else for protection.

I mentioned in another thread, that people have the mindset of "this will never happen to me". I said it about minors, but really, I think all people have the same thoughts. I don't think everyday that something terrible is going to happen to me or any of my family members. I go on about my business and wonder what I'm going to make for supper, before I have to get kids to basketball practice, piano lessons, work on homework, etc. Until something tragic happens, you just don't think about it.

[Sioux-cia]

How about Mace or Pepper Spray ? or Stun Guns ? or Tazer ?

I would think every Female would carry mace/pepper spray around here after Dru

I think Mace has real tight controls as well and you can get arrested for carrying it in some states. I don't know about pepper spray, stun guns or tazers. I do know that nothing short of a bullet, a big bullet, will stop someone on meth or similiar drug.

Just talked to one of the local PD this morning. She said she'll take me out to the shooting range with her anytime I want. She thought it was a good idea that I get a weapon.