Babbling About The Sioux

[jk]

About David Hale: Any discussion of the effect of his absence on the team should start with this: First, I hope he gets healthy and is able to lead a healthy life. Second, I hope he's able to have that crunching pro career he has seemed destined for. Third, I hope he's able to come back and help the Sioux. In that order.

Now, what effect has his absence had on the team during this stretch? He couldn't have solved the average-at-best goaltending, nor would he have been likely to score much. But surely replacing your best defenseman with your seventh-best has an effect somewhere. Consider the ten games he's missed:

at CC: 3-5. ENG

at CC: 1-4. one-goal game in the third that then got away

MTU: 8-0. Sioux win

MTU: 2-5. Sioux lay an egg, lose.

at Denver: 3-3.

at Denver: 1-2. GWG at 19:58 of third

at MSUM: 1-2.

at MSUM: 4-5.

UMD: 3-3.

UMD: 2-3.

Especially consider the last six. Two ties and four one-goal losses. I think Hale would have been worth at least a few points in those six close games.

Am I making excuses for the losses? No, just explaining one of the reasons for them. It means that the rest of the team hasn't been good enough to compensate for his absence. Other teams have had severe injury problems as well and done better. MN lost a lot of forwards earlier this year, but were fortunate that they were incredibly deep at the position. SCSU lost Malone, their best player, for a stretch at the start of the year, and again near the end, and struggled badly in his absence. Losing Hale has been similar to losing Malone in that he is probably UND's best player.

The biggest reason Hale's loss has impacted UND so badly is that it came at a position where UND was already thin. The D-corps looked like this to start the season: Hale-Schneider, Jones-Greene, Fuher-Leinweber, with Marvin getting some forward time. That's three sophomores at the core, led by a rock-solid junior, with a surprising freshman helping, and a senior and freshman bouncing in the six/seven slots. Without Hale, you're left with three sophomores and a freshman as your top four, with two guys who were scrapping for ice time as your third pair.

---------------------------------------

With the recent scoring woes, I can't help but think of Ryan Bayda. He seems to have made the right choice, as he is, so far, sticking in the NHL, which I think is just awesome. But offensively, I guess we are seeing that this team wasn't ready to be without a senior star. Spiewak and Notermann have stepped up and are having fine senior seasons, but they aren't stars. I still think Bayda would have won the Hobey Baker award this year had he returned. I know that Michigan would have Cammalleri and others, and MN would have Taffe, so I'm not claiming UND is unique here, just noting that some teams were prepared to be without their senior star, and others weren't. You can't rely on freshmen and sophomores to be your stars on offense and expect to be great (copyright C. Dahl).

----------------------------------------

Goaltending: Unlike some others, I am not in favor of cutting a player and pulling his scholarship. If a guy is not good enough to be on the team, then cutting him from the team should be an option, but I think he should be able to stay in school with whatever assistance he was expecting. This is all assuming that he works and tries as expected. In Josh's case, for instance, I haven't heard any talk of his not working his butt off and really caring. If he does those things, I think he earns his scholarship. Even if he's not a good goaltender. The thing is, this is a kid's future we're talking about here. A player getting hockey scholarship money but not playing on the team because he was cut would just mean that the program would have to do the job with less money. An example would be Ziggy walking on next year and taking Josh's spot.

Again, I have no problem cutting a player from the team if he's not good enough to be on it.

------------------------------------

On a related note, I wasn't a fan of the discussions last year of giving up on young forwards, and I'm still not. Here are the young guys:

Bochenski - not a complete player, but obviously a star in the making

Massen - inconsistent, but took a big step up this year

McMahon - production has been disappointing, but he has played a lot and has been steady

Canady - how could anyone expect him to do much this year? He has either been injured or rehabbing the entire year. From what I understand, he has busted his butt to get back in the lineup after each injury. I disagree strongly with anyone who would want to cut someone after the kind of year Canady had; the idea is that you stick with someone when they're down, then later, when they're back up, they care that much more and perform that much better.

Connelly - I understand complaints about his lack of production, and can't argue against them. All I can say is that I see flashes of talent, outstanding moves and good speed, and I think he could contribute in the future. And I'm not his uncle, or anythign like that.

Genoway - Based on some of the whispers, I had high expectations that obviously haven't been met. I'd like to see if he can make the first-year to second-year jump that many players do.

Fylling - Has been up and down, but has been much better than he was his first year.

Prpich - His outperformance has softened the blow of Genoway's disappointment. A very pleasant surprise who could be an important player in the future.

Parise - I assume no one wants him to be cut.

Bring young guys in, develop them, build a team. If the numbers were different, some people would have wanted to cut Skarperud somewhere along the way, but he played, got better, then eventually blew up.

------------------------------------

Even with the adversity the team has faced, this year is not done yet. They just need to win a game this weekend, get home ice, and win a few home games. That would send them on to St. Paul on a bit of a roll, and maybe keep them in contention for an NCAA bid.

[Goon]

Goaltending:  Unlike some others, I am not in favor of cutting a player and pulling his scholarship.  If a guy is not good enough to be on the team, then cutting him from the team should be an option, but I think he should be able to stay in school with whatever assistance he was expecting.  This is all assuming that he works and tries as expected.  In Josh's case, for instance, I haven't heard any talk of his not working his butt off and really caring.  If he does those things, I think he earns his scholarship.  Even if he's not a good goaltender.  The thing is, this is a kid's future we're talking about here.  A player getting hockey scholarship money but not playing on the team because he was cut would just mean that the program would have to do the job with less money.  An example would be Ziggy walking on next year and taking Josh's spot.

Again, I have no problem cutting a player from the team if he's not good enough to be on it.

------------------------------------

Jk,

I think you might be missing the point. Scholarships are renewed each year after the end of the season much like the rest of the work world, it is a contract and a reward. If you do a good job you get rewarded, if you can't preform you move on. It is not implied that a player will automatically get 4 years of college scholarship, just for excepting a scholarship offer. That is Gopher Logic. It is also possible that some players might also be asked to take a reduced scholarship. Wether this happens or not I have no Idea...

I feel that UND Owes Josh nothing. Josh have been given ample opportunity to preform and hasn't. I not sure why UND has to keep playing him in hopes that he might get better... If a player can not play at a level that is expected of a goalie in a top caliber division one hockey team, they could/should lose their scholarship. Nor should the school be expected to keep funding this education. If he loses his scholarship would be justified. UND has some tough decisions to make this off season. Do they want to keep players that can't contribute or do they move on and pick up somone else? It will be interesting. One will they pick up another goaltender. As was mentioned earlier UND was looking at a goaltender from Canada, but he signed with Wisconsin. I think its safe to assume that Blais is going to keep looking for a goaltender.

I have watched almost everygame since 1993 and this is by far the worst goaltending I have ever seen UND have. Its brutal.

[Hammy]

I tend to agree with jk in regards to dismissing players. I can see cutting a guy if he breaks team rules, becomes academically ineligible or something along those lines but I feel when you take away a player's scholarship because you misjudge what type of performance he would give on the ice, you are making the college game too much like the pros. Frankly, if a player doesn't pan out for his team, some of that responsibility should fall on the man who recruited him. Sometimes coaches misjudge in recruiting and that plays a part in some situations.

If a player is doing all he can to live up to his end of the deal (meaning working hard), I feel the coach should live up to what he offered a kid when he came to the school. If that is "Gopher logic", so be it. I'd rather have the man who leads my program be a man of his word than to break promises to kids. Maybe that means we get stuck with a Leimbek, Pagel, etc. but I feel that is why the coach must be smart about who he recruits. Scholarships are renewable each year but most coaches lay it out far ahead of time on what they plan to offer a recruit during their four years... they don't say, "Well, let's see how you do and maybe we'll renew you for next year." If they said that, they wouldn't land many recruits.

P.S. - That kind of cut throat mentality in cutting players would get used against you in recruiting a lot... you can bet on that.

And Goon, loyalty is a two way street. If you aren't going to shed any tears if a hardworking player gets cut, then you shouldn't ever complain if a top player leaves early for the pros (whether they are ready for it or not). Why should a player show loyalty to a program if that program doesn't show loyalty to all the players?

(The above is just a hypothetical for argument sake. I am not sayng the Sioux are doing all of these things.)

[dagies]

I agree with pretty much everything you say, jk. And I don't think this team has a lot of "slackers" that need to move on. Maybe they just need a little more offensive, goal scoring talent.

[kr]

What a weekend. While it is only a game I've been "blue" all day and I couldn't figure it out. After reading this board and poi and uscho I think I finally figured it out. After 4 years of gutsy effort there is a good chance that the 3 seniors won't have a chance to do a final stick salute in front of the home crowd. That just plain sucks. While it was great to have the 3 senior players and their parents introduced/acknowledged pre game it just isn't the same as the end of game center ice salute. Crap.

Is that enough babbling? Go Sioux.

[morley]

Jk,

What you stated about scholarships is absolutely absurd!! Why should someone get a scholarship for hockey if that person is not playing hockey. Yes I realize that there are judgement errors in recruiting and it is not the fault of the athlete, but that of the coaching staff. However with what you are implying should happen, would mean that I could qualify for a hockey scholarship. I am definately not D1 or D3 material for that matter, but I know that if given the chance to play hockey, I would work my arse off for the Sioux. Obviously you have to have some skills to even be considered for an athletic scholarship in the first place. If the former athlete wants to continue with school, so be it, but at their own expense. There are plenty of options available to them, that most of us never had.

Also, yeah I realize that nobody would want their scholarship pulled, but as an athlete, you sometimes need to consider what is best for the team. And if you aren't in that picture maybe it is for the best.

Here are a couple of examples of past situations that would hint that if someone on the Sioux isn't getting it done, they will be cut

Brendan Connely brought in so that they could get his brother to come play here.

Ranfranz being told last Christmas he was going to be on the team until Blais found Sievebida, and dropped Ranfranz on the spot.

Yes cut throat is like the pro's, but also like the pro's college deals with money and that is the bottom line. No there isn't a salary, but a scholarship at stake.

[PCM]

Ranfranz being told last Christmas he was going to be on the team until Blais found Sievebida, and dropped Ranfranz on the spot.

While I agree with the gist of your post, the part about Ranfranz isn't true. Marc told me that he couldn't play after Christmas last season because of NCAA rules, not because Blais decided to play Siembida instead. If not for that, Ranfranz probably would have been playing instead of Siembida. At least, that's the way I understood it.

[BAM]

I can see that Hammy and JK have experienced life and know that all of us at one time or another have had a few

bumps in life or our game (no pun intended) All the guys have had a tough time this year, no one excluded. I see

potential in all the players as they do have had a solid team.

Then you have Morley and Goon who by the sounds of things have always been riding high on their game (life) with

no bumps to speak of. (it must be nice)

This year I havn't seen any consistencey as I find the changes in the lines and goaltending ongoing.

P.S. Hey Morley if you can't spell a name properly, don't use it at all. How juvenile.

[Goon]

If that is "Gopher logic", so be it.

P.S. - That kind of cut throat mentality in cutting players would get used against you in recruiting a lot... you can bet on that.

And Goon, loyalty is a two way street. If you aren't going to shed any tears if a hardworking player gets cut, then you shouldn't ever complain if a top player leaves early for the pros (whether they are ready for it or not). Why should a player show loyalty to a program if that program doesn't show loyalty to all the players?

(The above is just a hypothetical for argument sake. I am not sayng the Sioux are doing all of these things.)

Hammy,

I am not saying I want Blais to cut every player/goalie that fails to live up to the level of play that is expected of him. Kids are going to be "Recruiting Busts", I think right now this might be the case with a few of our young goal tenders. But where do you cut your loses and keep coming back with a person that can't for what ever reason cut the mustard and play at a level that is expected of a Division one Caliber player. Where does the relationship end, and both parties go their separate ways.

UND and UofM are I think Bench Mark Programs in the WCHA. (The hell with the Dirty Badgers), If people want to call that cocky, so be it. Bench mark teams should be able to have great goaltending. I can't for the life of me think of why a top recruited/ranked goalie wouldn't want to be the guy that helps a team win banner number 8? I look at the Ralph and think who wouldn't want to skate out on the ice to play UofM or B.C. in front of 12,000 screaming fans. At times that place has rocked. It was like a morgue for most of the weekend. You see what I am getting at? Who wouldn't want to play in front of 10,000 screaming/rabbid Gopher fans. Who wouldn't want to go into Marriucci and beat the Gophers? Sure Grand Forks is not the best place in the world but, I think the hockey atmosphere is awesome in GF. Winter here suck...

I do however think the goaltending is a major problem this season. If the coaching staff stays with the current crop of goaltenders, I hope they don't, add to that equation, Lane S can't play again because of injuries, we are in a rough future at least for next season. I think Ranfranz could play and play at a level that is exceptable... But I am miffed why he didn't play yesterday? I feel bad for Marc... People including myself maligned Hauser but he won a ring.

I have to admit, this season has been miserable to watch even more painful that last season. What makes it even more miserable is that at times this team has played great at times like yesterday only to have happen at the end of the game, happen. I feel in my heart that no way UMD should have won yesterday, the breaks just didn't go UND's way. When I first saw UND play UofM this season I thought that UND was the better team. But I wouldn't make that argument today. Like PA and DUBAY said UofM is a NCAA top seed.

I think UND is on the bubble, I guess we need to rally the troops and get behind them. I hate to say this but maybe UND needs to resort to a 1-2-2 to keep the shots down. I hate that kind of hockey.

On to your last question. When a player leaves I am sad but happy for them too. I was happy to see Ryan Bayda playing for the Canes the other night. I like to see WCHA players go and do well at the next level, Blaker is having an awesome season. Good for them. I think Ryan would have looked great on the 1st line with Zack and Brandon. Wow. I know also I can't wait for Zack and Brandon to be on a line with Brady Murray (I think thats his name) next season. I mean if you have a chance at the money you have to take it.

I expect these players to leave and I think others do to. I say good for Leo for staying another season, it shows and speaks of his character and loyalty. Oh by the way I love seeing Leo playing in the NHL. He was one of my favorite Gophers after Brink. Also, I don't fault Taffe for going to the AHL/NHL. I say good for him. So people don't like it. Thats life.

[The Sicatoka]

Take away a guy's scholarship?

What does signing a Letter of Intent really mean?

Over the years, some of the terms of the National Letter of Intent agreement have changed, yet the basic premise has remained the same, to provide certainty in the recruiting process. Specifically, pursuant to the terms of National Letter of Intent program, participating institutions agree to provide a prospective student-athlete, who is admitted to the institution and is eligible for financial aid under NCAA rules, athletics aid for one academic year in exchange for the prospect's agreement to attend the institution for one academic year. Furthermore, participating institutions agree not to recruit a prospective student-athlete once he/she signs a National Letter of Intent with another institution. Accordingly, a prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent no longer is subjected to recruiting contacts and calls and is ensured an athletic scholarship for one academic year.

I detect a theme in there.

If you tell a student-athlete an LOI is for more than one year it is less than truthful.

All I've ever heard Dean Blais say is that scholarships are reviewed annual. (Another way to say annually is one academic year.)

[Herf]

Here's an alternative question for those of you arguing against cutting a player for lack of performance - Could it not be said that a player who, based on the judgement of people more capable than you and I to judge these players, does not play at the level of the DI institute that they attend, is taking the place (and potential scholarship) of someone who may be more deserving? Just interested how someone views that alternative.

On another note, people need to realize that stats don't tell a whole story. Just because Connelly doesn't have huge numbers, doesn't mean he isn't creating opportunities that won't get capitalized on at some point. By some people's criteria, Lee Goren should have never seen the ice after his first year playing and Skarp as jk pointed out.

I've been impressed with McMahon every time that I've watched the Sioux (about 10- 12 games this year). He forechecks well, is great on faceoffs, and seems to set up players extremely well. If he had a sniper playing with him, you'd see huge assist numbers. My favortie line all year has been the Prpich-McMahon-Hale line, but Hale is not a sniper and Prpich needs another year under his belt to get there.

I have to agree with those who have said theat the young players this year are doing just fine.

On a related note, I think some are losing site of the fact that this is a YOUNG team. There are two exceptional seniors, but overall, this is a very young team (add in David Hales health concerns, and this team gets even younger). That doesn't excuse/explain the goaltending issues, but it does explain a stretch like the current one (where lack of scoring has been a bigger concern IMHO).

Alright, partial rant over.

[teamsioux]

As far as "cutting" an athletic scholarship for failure of an athlete to deliver his potential or add positives to the team/school, I see no problems with it....why is that any different than when a non-athlete gets his academic scholarship pulled. The student was promised the academic scholarship as long as he/she kept their duties up in compliance with the offer they accepted. If the student fails in the class room by not living up to expectation and the pre-set standards, usually with more than one chance, his scholarship is then pulled back. This is similar to an athlete, if they don't live up to the expectation put on them, they can also be cut. Let's face it, in today's society and big-time athletics, their is pressure to win. The coach/school can't afford to keep around dead weight. I believe after the '00-01 season, Rich Glas cut or greatly reduced some scholarships to open up some money....look who that money turned into..Beasley,Porter and maybe the most talented of them all, Rob Lolar. He probably wouldn't have had the money to get all of them otherwise. And now the team is back on track.

[Siouxrock]

i her dean is gonna play hale this weekend no matter what happens

[Hammy]

Anybody who thinks a coach recruits a kid without telling him what he can expect for scholarship support over their full 4 years at an institution is kidding themselves. Yes scholarships are renewable but coaches generally lay things out for a player when they are being recruited.

Recruiting is far too competitive to give a player "we'll see how it goes on a yearly basis" types of comments and making them doubt whether or not you are fully committed to them.

[Herf]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Blais clearly states during recruiting that scholarships are on a yearly basis with review after each season.

[schmidtdoggydog]

i think they shouldnt of got lamourex becuase he is too little. i would want size becuz look what happens when he get the shorter goalies, the puck goes over them and all of the fans get mad

Oh my goodness, is this for real?

I think Siouxrock may have played some goalie in the past and taken a few to many howitzers off the noggin.

[Goon]

Oh my goodness, is this for real?

I think Siouxrock may have played some goalie in the past and taken a few to many howitzers off the noggin.

I was thinking more like maybe this guy should put the pipe down and sober up and go to school.

Clueless, I think Phils size is not an issue...

[dickgraham]

On the youth issue, let's not forget Duluth is just as young as the Sioux are and we all saw the poise and dicipline they payed with last weekend. We have to dig deep and play with that type of attitude this weekend in Madison.

Go Sioux!

DG

[BAM]

Once again I see Hammy is the only one on the forum with a brain. I have to wonder what else is at stake but

the loyalty and understanding of these young players. What!!! As I said before the whole team has had a bad year.

Not one of them shine, but as a team they will, with the solid support of people like Hammy and Jk.

I too believe they are due and will come through.

GO SIOUX GO

A LOYAL AND DECICATED FAN TO ALL THE PLAYERS. KEEP SMILING CAUSE SOME OF US BELIEVE IN YOU IN THE

GOOD TIMES AND NOT SO GOOD.

[Siouxrock]

in my opinion, i owuld get size

[ScottM]

Once again I see Hammy is the only one on the forum with a  brain.  I have to wonder what else is at stake but

the loyalty and understanding of these young players.  What!!! As I said before the whole team has had a bad year.

Not one of them shine, but as a team they will, with the solid support of people like Hammy and Jk.

I too believe they are due and will come through.

GO SIOUX GO

A LOYAL AND DECICATED FAN TO ALL THE PLAYERS.  KEEP SMILING CAUSE SOME OF US BELIEVE IN YOU  IN THE

GOOD TIMES AND NOT SO GOOD.

I'm sure it would make Hammy very happy to see the Sioux win another Title or three over the next few years. And the rest of us Sioux fans too.

[choyt3]

Hammy, you can talk all you want about the Gophers keeping Leimbeck and Pagel because they were 'obligated' by giving them scholarships in the first place. I feel you can't hardly compare a couple of guys that end up as 5th or 6th line players, or 9th or 10th defensemen, that don't pan out to arguably all FOUR of your goaltenders. It's pretty difficult to 'hide' a goalie when none of them are performing at the level they were expected to.

All of your insinuating that it will hurt Blais with potential recruits is getting pretty tiresome. This 'holier than thou' attitude that seems to believe that not one player has ever been asked to leave the Gopher program has gotten tiresome as well. It has happened before and it will happen again. It happens EVERYWHERE.

Good god, there's a coach that expects the players that he recruits to give 100% every shift and to contribute positively to the team that he is responsible for. Can't ask for a lot more than that, can you? If a kid isn't pulling his weight, the coach of ANY program has the prerogative to do what is necessary to better the program. Period.

It's like out in the real world. When there is someone that is not pulling their weight that is a co-worker of yours, does that person deserve to keep their job just because they were hired in the first place? I sure wouldn't think so. And with Division I athletics, it isn't that much of a stretch to make this analogy.

That said, I don't know what the answer is to the goaltending 'problem'. I hope things start to come together beginning this Friday.

BAM, I think you are totally misunderstanding some posts on this (and other) thread(s). Sioux fans want to see the best possible product that is available. It has been stated that the goaltending this season has been less than what was expected. In this stretch of the last 10 games, other facets of the team have performed at levels less than what was expected as well. I don't think that even members of the team would argue with that point. To say that does not at all question the loyalty and admiration that we (FANS) have of the Sioux hockey program. We just want the team to work hard and win some games. Is that too much to hope for?

[PCM]

Anybody who thinks a coach recruits a kid without telling him what he can expect for scholarship support over their full 4 years at an institution is kidding themselves.

If that's what you think, then you're essentially calling Blais a liar. I have heard him say publicly many times in many different forums that scholarships are evaluated at the end of each season. For me to believe you, I'd also have to believe that Blais is saying one thing publicly and saying something altogether different when it comes to dealing with prospective recruits and their parents.

If that were the case, he'd have zero credibility with anyone and nobody in their right mind would ever send their kid to UND to play for Blais. That doesn't appear to be happening, does it?

[BAM]

CLAYTON: I agree the team should work harder and win the games. God, I truly believe they are trying their best.

For some reason after Christmas when they were winning ever game, the balance was lost. Why??

THEY WERE ON A WINNING STREAK!!!!!

Line changes!! Goaltending changes!!! WHO KNOWS??

In my opinion all of the above has some how effected the end results as we are painfully seeing.

PCM Why does everyone think they actually know what Blais is saying or thinks.

We all speak between the lines and as a high profile Coach why would he be any different.

[Goon]

Clayton on players leaving early It has happened before and it will happen again. It happens EVERYWHERE.

Good god, there's a coach that expects the players that he recruits to give 100% every shift and to contribute positively to the team that he is responsible for. Can't ask for a lot more than that, can you? If a kid isn't pulling his weight, the coach of ANY program has the prerogative to do what is necessary to better the program. Period.

It's like out in the real world. When there is someone that is not pulling their weight that is a co-worker of yours, does that person deserve to keep their job just because they were hired in the first place? I sure wouldn't think so. And with Division I athletics, it isn't that much of a stretch to make this analogy.

That said, I don't know what the answer is to the goaltending 'problem'. I hope things start to come together beginning this Friday.

BAM, I think you are totally misunderstanding some posts on this (and other) thread(s). Sioux fans want to see the best possible product that is available. It has been stated that the goaltending this season has been less than what was expected. In this stretch of the last 10 games, other facets of the team have performed at levels less than what was expected as well. I don't think that even members of the team would argue with that point. To say that does not at all question the loyalty and admiration that we (FANS) have of the Sioux hockey program. We just want the team to work hard and win some games. Is that too much to hope for?

Clayton very well spoken man. To address the issue further, if you monitor the USCHO board you will see that players are being shown the door all over the place so we are not talking about a new concept.

Findlay from the CHA just sent 6 players packing last week.

I also don't think any of us are calling for a house cleaning, I would say there are probably just a few areas that will probably be addressed in the off season.