Final 2006 attendance figures

[fighting sue]

I'm kind of a numbers geek so bear with me . . .

I did some quick figuring of season attendance at home football games, based off of fightingsioux.com and gobison.com attendance reporting.

The Sioux: 5 regular-season home games 47890 in total attendance 9578 average attendance

The Bison: 5 regular-season home games 81886 in total attendance 16377 average attendance

Though this difference seemed alarming keep in mind that the Sioux would still have the 4th best attendance in D2 football (based on 2005 figures) and would have the 34th best attendance in D1-AA (out of about 120 teams). However, against the same figures the Bison would have the 6th best D1-AA attendance and the 99th best attendance if they played D1 football (out of 119 teams).

But the Fargodome is a much bigger arena, so I figured how full, on average, either arena actually was. For this I used the commonly-cited arena capacities of 13,500 (Alerus) and 18,700 (Fargodome).

Alerus 71 % full

Fargodome 87.6% full

Are these numbers really anything to get worked up about? Do they tell us anything revealing? Does this mean that UND football fans aren't as dedicated or interested as NDSU fans? Perhaps the latter . . . remember, too, that NDSU football draws from a "metro" area about double as that of Grand Forks. This may explain the sheer difference in possible attendees, but doesn't explain the difference in average capacity.

However, if we look further into the metro populations into consideration, the numbers reveal something interesting:

Wikipedia (not the best source) lists GF's metro population as 97,478 and Fargo's as 184,857. Think of these as possible attendees. That means that on gameday 9.8% of the GF metro population was at the Alerus. In Fargo only 8.9% of the metro population attended games. Because the populations are so disproportionate I think this tells us that Grand Forks is getting out for UND football in "better" numbers than NDSU football, though the difference is still not impressive. If Fargo wanted to reach the same percent of metro area attendees at football games, they'd have to boost their attendance by about 1700 per home game.

As for the difference in average capacity, I'm firmly convinced that attendance will rise once we play opponents with better name recognition and regional interest such as Montana, Montana St., NDSU, and SDSU, I think there's another factor. Hockey. Grand Forks is inarguably a hockey town and will be one for the foreseeable future. The Ralph draws many, many casual sports fans who may attend football games if there weren't another sports option. How much of an impact it has on football is hard to quantify without some actual research.

Long story short (too late), I do think in spite of how much we lag behind NDSU in attendance, I definitely think we're ready to go up to D1-AA in football. It will, of course be challenging, but UND is obviously a good fit. As for the other sports . . .

[Bison Dan]

I'm kind of a numbers geek so bear with me . . .

I did some quick figuring of season attendance at home football games, based off of fightingsioux.com and gobison.com attendance reporting.

The Sioux: 5 regular-season home games 47890 in total attendance 9578 average attendance

The Bison: 5 regular-season home games 81886 in total attendance 16377 average attendance

Though this difference seemed alarming keep in mind that the Sioux would still have the 4th best attendance in D2 football (based on 2005 figures) and would have the 34th best attendance in D1-AA (out of about 120 teams). However, against the same figures the Bison would have the 6th best D1-AA attendance and the 99th best attendance if they played D1 football (out of 119 teams).

But the Fargodome is a much bigger arena, so I figured how full, on average, either arena actually was. For this I used the commonly-cited arena capacities of 13,500 (Alerus) and 18,700 (Fargodome).

Alerus 71 % full

Fargodome 87.6% full

Are these numbers really anything to get worked up about? Do they tell us anything revealing? Does this mean that UND football fans aren't as dedicated or interested as NDSU fans? Perhaps the latter . . . remember, too, that NDSU football draws from a "metro" area about double as that of Grand Forks. This may explain the sheer difference in possible attendees, but doesn't explain the difference in average capacity.

However, if we look further into the metro populations into consideration, the numbers reveal something interesting:

Wikipedia (not the best source) lists GF's metro population as 97,478 and Fargo's as 184,857. Think of these as possible attendees. That means that on gameday 9.8% of the GF metro population was at the Alerus. In Fargo only 8.9% of the metro population attended games. Because the populations are so disproportionate I think this tells us that Grand Forks is getting out for UND football in "better" numbers than NDSU football, though the difference is still not impressive. If Fargo wanted to reach the same percent of metro area attendees at football games, they'd have to boost their attendance by about 1700 per home game.

As for the difference in average capacity, I'm firmly convinced that attendance will rise once we play opponents with better name recognition and regional interest such as Montana, Montana St., NDSU, and SDSU, I think there's another factor. Hockey. Grand Forks is inarguably a hockey town and will be one for the foreseeable future. The Ralph draws many, many casual sports fans who may attend football games if there weren't another sports option. How much of an impact it has on football is hard to quantify without some actual research.

Long story short (too late), I do think in spite of how much we lag behind NDSU in attendance, I definitely think we're ready to go up to D1-AA in football. It will, of course be challenging, but UND is obviously a good fit. As for the other sports . . .

Good analysis - One factor overlooked - GF is a one college town and Fargo has 3 universities with lots of grads living there from Moorhead and Concordia. It would make a difference in some of the calculations.

[UND92,96]

I'm kind of a numbers geek so bear with me . . .

I did some quick figuring of season attendance at home football games, based off of fightingsioux.com and gobison.com attendance reporting.

The Sioux: 5 regular-season home games 47890 in total attendance 9578 average attendance

The Bison: 5 regular-season home games 81886 in total attendance 16377 average attendance

Though this difference seemed alarming keep in mind that the Sioux would still have the 4th best attendance in D2 football (based on 2005 figures) and would have the 34th best attendance in D1-AA (out of about 120 teams). However, against the same figures the Bison would have the 6th best D1-AA attendance and the 99th best attendance if they played D1 football (out of 119 teams).

But the Fargodome is a much bigger arena, so I figured how full, on average, either arena actually was. For this I used the commonly-cited arena capacities of 13,500 (Alerus) and 18,700 (Fargodome).

Alerus 71 % full

Fargodome 87.6% full

Are these numbers really anything to get worked up about? Do they tell us anything revealing? Does this mean that UND football fans aren't as dedicated or interested as NDSU fans? Perhaps the latter . . . remember, too, that NDSU football draws from a "metro" area about double as that of Grand Forks. This may explain the sheer difference in possible attendees, but doesn't explain the difference in average capacity.

However, if we look further into the metro populations into consideration, the numbers reveal something interesting:

Wikipedia (not the best source) lists GF's metro population as 97,478 and Fargo's as 184,857. Think of these as possible attendees. That means that on gameday 9.8% of the GF metro population was at the Alerus. In Fargo only 8.9% of the metro population attended games. Because the populations are so disproportionate I think this tells us that Grand Forks is getting out for UND football in "better" numbers than NDSU football, though the difference is still not impressive. If Fargo wanted to reach the same percent of metro area attendees at football games, they'd have to boost their attendance by about 1700 per home game.

As for the difference in average capacity, I'm firmly convinced that attendance will rise once we play opponents with better name recognition and regional interest such as Montana, Montana St., NDSU, and SDSU, I think there's another factor. Hockey. Grand Forks is inarguably a hockey town and will be one for the foreseeable future. The Ralph draws many, many casual sports fans who may attend football games if there weren't another sports option. How much of an impact it has on football is hard to quantify without some actual research.

Long story short (too late), I do think in spite of how much we lag behind NDSU in attendance, I definitely think we're ready to go up to D1-AA in football. It will, of course be challenging, but UND is obviously a good fit. As for the other sports . . .

NDSU does a better job of marketing its football games because football is number one there, whereas it clearly takes a back seat to hockey at UND in terms of how the two sports are marketed. Secondly, I think you would need to look at ticket prices, two and three-for-one offers, etc. I don't know what NDSU ticket prices were this year, but I believe UND has the highest prices in dII, and probably among the highest even in I-AA. NDSU also plays some night games, which UND doesn't, and night games probably do help crowd sizes since some people work on Saturdays, or just prefer to spend fall Saturday afternoons outside.

[Hammersmith]

I'm not going to disagree with what you say, fighting sue; you make some good points. I'll make a couple of small corrections that don't really affect your conclusions. 1. There are 141 teams in DI-FCS, not 120. 2. I like the 12,300 number for the Alerus and 19,200 for the Fargodome. Those numbers actually support your capacity arguments, changing them to 77.9% and 85.3%, respectively.

The most interesting attendance statistics for me are the trends over time. These numbers are not so attractive for UND. Here are the five year figures(regular season games only):

UND

2002: 9,488(-6.7%)

2003: 9,424(-0.7%)

2004: 9,555(+1.4%)

2005: 10,126(+6.0%)

2006: 9,578(-5.4%)

Five year change: +0.9%

NDSU

2002: 10,620(-12.3%)

2003: 11,567(+8.9%)

2004: 13,269(+14.7%)

2005: 14,160(+6.7%)

2006: 16,377(+15.7%)

Five year change: +54.2%

[fighting sue]

NDSU does a better job of marketing its football games because football is number one there, whereas it clearly takes a back seat to hockey at UND in terms of how the two sports are marketed. Secondly, I think you would need to look at ticket prices, two and three-for-one offers, etc. I don't know what NDSU ticket prices were this year, but I believe UND has the highest prices in dII, and probably among the highest even in I-AA. NDSU also plays some night games, which UND doesn't, and night games probably do help crowd sizes since some people work on Saturdays, or just prefer to spend fall Saturday afternoons outside.

I agree that night games could make a big difference. It's an idea that's long overdue. When something takes place at night it seems more like an event, seems more special (hockey games, movies); when something takes place during the day it seems more like a chore (grocery shopping, church).

To use an analogy . . . going to a UND football game has the excitement of going to a wedding, whereas going to a UND hockey game has the excitement of the dance/party after the wedding. Who gets geared up for weddings? Old people. But not the fun old people, the early-bird special eating, going to bed at 7 p.m. kind of old people.

[fighting sue]

I'm not going to disagree with what you say, fighting sue; you make some good points. I'll make a couple of small corrections that don't really affect your conclusions. 1. There are 141 teams in DI-FCS, not 120. 2. I like the 12,300 number for the Alerus and 19,200 for the Fargodome. Those numbers actually support your capacity arguments, changing them to 77.9% and 85.3%, respectively.

The most interesting attendance statistics for me are the trends over time. These numbers are not so attractive for UND. Here are the five year figures(regular season games only):

UND

2002: 9,488(-6.7%)

2003: 9,424(-0.7%)

2004: 9,555(+1.4%)

2005: 10,126(+6.0%)

2006: 9,578(-5.4%)

Five year change: +0.9%

NDSU

2002: 10,620(-12.3%)

2003: 11,567(+8.9%)

2004: 13,269(+14.7%)

2005: 14,160(+6.7%)

2006: 16,377(+15.7%)

Five year change: +54.2%

I think these 5-year figures are very hopeful for UND. What this tells me is that a football program with no chance of making the playoffs, a national championship, etc., is able to outdraw and generate more excitement than a team in contention for the championship, even though no one knows about/cares about who they play.

In a few years UND football will become that team without hope of a championship, but playing better, more marketable and recognizable opponents.

If, after five years, the attendance trend at UND doesn't take an impressive upward turn, even with relative success of the football team, I think you may safely say that Grand Forks is a hockey town only.

[Hammersmith]

I think these 5-year figures are very hopeful for UND. What this tells me is that a football program with no chance of making the playoffs, a national championship, etc., is able to outdraw and generate more excitement than a team in contention for the championship, even though no one knows about/cares about who they play.

In a few years UND football will become that team without hope of a championship, but playing better, more marketable and recognizable opponents.

If, after five years, the attendance trend at UND doesn't take an impressive upward turn, even with relative success of the football team, I think you may safely say that Grand Forks is a hockey town only.

I don't competely disagree, but the problem is that the Alerus doesn't have the room for the kind of growth NDSU has seen. Using NDSU's growth percentages, the Alerus would have hit capacity in 2005. Now, a sellout season is a great thing and generates an excitement all its own(I'm hoping NDSU starts seeing them in 08 or 09), but they do limit your ticket revenue. Still, I'm as excited as anyone else to see what happens in the next few years. I'm not wildly optimistic of UND's chances to equal NDSU's growth, but I certainly don't wish UND ill.

[sultan]

Good analysis - One factor overlooked - GF is a one college town and Fargo has 3 universities with lots of grads living there from Moorhead and Concordia. It would make a difference in some of the calculations.

There is a much better chance that the Concordia and Moorhead grads are going to NDSU events because they sure don't support their alma mater. They don't draw flies at their sporting events.

[bincitysioux]

I agree that night games could make a big difference. It's an idea that's long overdue. When something takes place at night it seems more like an event, seems more special (hockey games, movies); when something takes place during the day it seems more like a chore (grocery shopping, church).

To use an analogy . . . going to a UND football game has the excitement of going to a wedding, whereas going to a UND hockey game has the excitement of the dance/party after the wedding. Who gets geared up for weddings? Old people. But not the fun old people, the early-bird special eating, going to bed at 7 p.m. kind of old people.

I think UND playing night football games would be a fantastic idea for early season non-conference games especially. It would certainly raise attendance. Part of the problem with afternoon games is that it basically blows the entire day. The catch is that once hockey season starts, the football team would be commiting suicide if there were home football and hockey games the same day. If that ever occurred, attendance for the football game would be in 5,000 range. I don't think the coaching staff would want to have to be shifting the start times for football week to week to accomodate hockey, they like to stick to a set schedule, that is why they are always in the afternoon. But I would love it if they had night games at the very least for early season non-conference games, or maybe even up until the start of hockey season.

[iramurphy]

Dale doesn't want to play night games. We need to at least try it during the hunting season to see if it makes a difference.

The AC does a much better job of maketing their athletics as well as the school. They simply declare themselves better and in the sports that they are they focus on thsoe and in the areas they aren't they sell the public on the idea that they are and enough people buy into it.

Their attendence figures this year certainly was boosted by their success and the increased visiblilty of playing the Gophers and winning their conference. They beat a couple of pretty good team in Cal Davis and Cal Poly. They beat Ball State which was a decent mid-major and with comparitive scores were able to back some of their crowing with good performance. Their mens BB team has helped sell the FB team and vice-versa and they have done a nice job of using that success to sell the college and other sports. Chapman has done a good job of selling himself to the Alumni and the state and has performed well for them.

UND doesn't have the same community fan base and needs GF, EGF to support the teams and University if for no other reason than it is so improtant to the area economy.

The kids from our area who go there love the school yet UND does very little to publicize that and get the word out to the public. UND also fails to capitalize by recruiting the areas where they have done well in the past. Detroit Lakes sent 27 kids to UND 5 years ago from that graduating class. (>10% of the class). This past year it was around 8. I have offered to help the recruiters when they come to DL and also take them to lunch and the answer is they don't recruit here any more.

The group the AC uses to do their marketing, uses the athletic success and D1 issue to sell kids on the school and to sell the state and Fargo Moorhead community on the school, and athletics and they do it very effectively.

UND has gotten a little better but needs to pick up the pace.

[fightingsioux4life]

The problem with Sioux Football isn't the coach (Dale Lennon is one of the best around). It isn't a lack of tradition (We have a long, proud history of football). It isn't a lack of success on the field (We've been a playoff contender for a long time now). No, the problem is hockey.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Fighting Sioux Hockey. I've been going to games since I was six or seven years old. I rarely missed a home game when I was a college student. I go to the Final Five every single year. But there is this unfortunate mentality in Grand Forks and among UND fans in general that if it isn't Men's Ice Hockey, it doesn't matter. At all. And as a season ticket holder in both sports, that pains me.

Earth to Fighting Sioux fans: YOU CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE MAJOR SPORT!!!

Having football as another major sport to complement hockey would help the athletic department in particular and the school in general. Football starts in late August or early September. Hockey starts in October. They do overlap some, but as long as home football and hockey games are at different times, it shouldn't be a big problem.

The attendance at home football games is inexcusable. There isn't enough promotion of football at this school. The Alerus Center is already a great atmosphere for football with an average attendance of a little over 9,500. Imagine how awesome it would be with 10,000 + for home games? And please get off of this whole "The Fargodome is bigger, so we'll never have as good of a program" nonsense. I've been hearing that crap ever since the Grain Bin opened in 1993 and we've done pretty well against the Bison in football since then. The Alerus seats fewer people, but with a low ceiling and fans right on top of the field, it's a great environment for our team to perform in. The old REA seated 6,067, the new REA seats 11,500. And the atmosphere has gone down the toilet. Bigger doesn't always mean better.

All the tools are there to make football in Grand Forks a solid #2 sport. It would be a big boost to the Grand Forks area and to our athletic department. All we need is a strong commitment to make it happen. The move to Division I might make this possible.

[fightingsioux4life]

I don't competely disagree, but the problem is that the Alerus doesn't have the room for the kind of growth NDSU has seen. Using NDSU's growth percentages, the Alerus would have hit capacity in 2005. Now, a sellout season is a great thing and generates an excitement all its own(I'm hoping NDSU starts seeing them in 08 or 09), but they do limit your ticket revenue. Still, I'm as excited as anyone else to see what happens in the next few years. I'm not wildly optimistic of UND's chances to equal NDSU's growth, but I certainly don't wish UND ill.

This is the biggest problem in Grand Forks right now (and for many years): "Fargo has this, Fargo has that, so we shouldn't even try. Let's give up and wait for the end to come." This attitude will get you nowhere. If you don't believe that you can accomplish special things, you won't. Ever. And unfortunately, this attitude rubs off on UND sometimes. This is one of those times.

So what if the Fargodome has more seats than the Alerus? You should still try to pack the place. 9,500 is pretty good. But 10, 11 or 12,000 is even better. Stop treating football as the red-headed stepchild of hockey and it might grow into something special. Hockey is promoted as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and sure enough, it's one of the top programs in the nation. Football could achieve the same status in Division I....IF the program is promoted and hyped up enough. This is one area NDSU is performing well in, promoting ALL of their major sports (Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball and Football), while UND focuses almost entirely on Men's Hockey and whatever REA management wants.

UND will continue to grow and become more important in Grand Forks and in the State of North Dakota. Research is taking off. Enrollment is strong. These things should rub off on athletics as we move into the transition period after next year. But if we keep putting all of our eggs into the hockey basket, all of our other programs will suffer when they should be prospering. And as a Fighting Sioux Club member, I don't want that to happen.

[dlsiouxfan]

If UND ever wishes to gain the national recognition it desires the football team will have to become the most prominent athletic team on campus. It's our national sport in this country and as UND tries to attract students and dollars from farther and farther away recognition as a dominant football school will reach many more people than recognition as a hockey school. Let's face it hockey's market is severely limited, putting all of our eggs in the hockey basket may get us recognition in Minnesota, ND, and a few other areas but will never get us the national attention football receives.

[Matt]

There is a much better chance that the Concordia and Moorhead grads are going to NDSU events because they sure don't support their alma mater. They don't draw flies at their sporting events.

Please don't lump in that mess east of 8th street with Concordia. I don't know the actual gate figures, but Cobber grads in Fargo-Moorhead support Concordia football well.

[GeauxSioux]

I definitely think that UND Football attendance will improve with the jump to Division I. UND football has great coaches, tradition and a great venue. I saw the comparison above with NDSU's numbers. SDSU made the jump at the same time and they have seen a similar increase in attendance, with the exception of 2005 when they played 8 home games. Not to dis SDSU, but they have no football tradition and an antiquated stadium and still had a great increase in attendance.

SDSU

2002 5967 (-11.4%)

2003 5547 (-7.03%)

2004 9846 (+77.5%)

2005 6972 (-22.2%)

2006 9652 (+38.4%)

61.7% increase over the span of 5 years.

If UND's attenance increases even 40% over the next 5 years, that would the average at 13,409. As Hammersmith stated the capacity is actually 12,300. Imagine a averaging a full house every home game. Give the fans something to get excited about and they will be there. I'm quite certain that these figures aren't lost on the people in the AD. Someone would definintely have to be checking into expanded seating at the Al.

[fightingsioux4life]

If UND ever wishes to gain the national recognition it desires the football team will have to become the most prominent athletic team on campus. It's our national sport in this country and as UND tries to attract students and dollars from farther and farther away recognition as a dominant football school will reach many more people than recognition as a hockey school. Let's face it hockey's market is severely limited, putting all of our eggs in the hockey basket may get us recognition in Minnesota, ND, and a few other areas but will never get us the national attention football receives.

Football does not have to (and will not) become the most important sport on campus. This might happen if we dumped the hockey program , but that is not going to happen. Hockey is not this little novelty alternative sport; the WCHA attracts well over 1 million fans to it's games each year; Hockey East is located in prominent East Coast media markets. When we go to the Frozen Four, we get media coverage. Even Buning knew about our hockey program before he applied to work here. Hockey has a life of its own. We can afford to take some eggs out of the hockey basket and put them into the football basket, and hockey will continue to function just fine.

Football can, however, become a solid complement to hockey and help improve our national profile as an all-Division I institution. As I've said, there is no reason football cannot be promoted and hyped more than it is. It just needs more support from Buning, Kupchella and those of us buying tickets. If we all chip in, we can do our part and help make it happen.

[WYOBISONMAN]

The biggest attendance problem that the Sioux will face in the future is the fact that he Alerus is too small. USD will be in that pickle too. A lot of us Bison fans are worried that the Fargodome may wind up being too small as well. And.......expansion of an indoor stadium is near impossible.

[UND92,96]

Comparing UND football attendance to NDSU's isn't something I'm too concerned about due to the obvious differences in seating capacity, and the large difference is metro populations.

With that said, if I were the a.d., I'd do the following to get the Alerus consistently filled:

1. two or three night games be played per year. Dale may not like it, but it needs to be done.

2. discount tickets on the end sections, particularly on the visitors' side. These tickets tend not be sold anyway, so cutting prices to about $10 for most games is better than having those seats empty.

3. market the product better, starting with targeting season hockey ticketholders who don't currently have football season tickets.

4. count suites towards the total attendance. These people presumably have their tickets scanned like everybody else. Eliminating them from the reported attendance makes no sense. This has nothing to do with getting the Alerus filled, but it irritates me that suites are apparently not counted in attendance figures.

[mksioux]

But there is this unfortunate mentality in Grand Forks and among UND fans in general that if it isn't Men's Ice Hockey, it doesn't matter. At all.

There are certainly fans that think that way, but I bet for at least some of them it's not a hockey vs. non-hockey thing as much as a DI vs. DII thing. They don't care about the other sports because they're DII.

People in Grand Forks love Sioux hockey for a lot of reasons, but I don't think it's as much because they love the sport of hockey as much as they love the fact that "little ole UND" can be a major player against the big boys. Sioux hockey is "an event" for that reason. If UND hockey played in a division that did not include the best teams in the country, interest would fall dramatically.

Hopefully interest in UND football will grow along with the level of competition. But it's also essential to win.

[Hammersmith]

4. count suites towards the total attendance. These people presumably have their tickets scanned like everybody else. Eliminating them from the reported attendance makes no sense. This has nothing to do with getting the Alerus filled, but it irritates me that suites are apparently not counted in attendance figures.

Actually, they are counted. Currently, UND is reporting paid attendance. It won't even matter when they switch to actual attendance; people in the suites will still be part of the count. Where the suites don't count is towards the 12,300 capacity. Since UND does not sell those tickets (the Alerus does), they don't consider them part of the regular capacity. I don't think that's the right decision and I'd add in the ADA stands as well. As long as they're in place for every game, they should be counted as a part of the standard capacity.

All your other ideas are very good. I would add in a better marketing campaign as well. Maybe it's just me, but every time I see or hear the "Force of the North" slogan, I think of a marching band. Fargo had a drum and bugle corps a few years back called North Force. Doesn't exactly strike fear into my heart.

[choyt3]

<snip>I would add in a better marketing campaign as well. Maybe it's just me, but every time I see or hear the "Force of the North" slogan, I think of a marching band. Fargo had a drum and bugle corps a few years back called North Force. Doesn't exactly strike fear into my heart.

Are you thinking of something along the lines of "Scream YELLOW!"??

[mksioux]

We can afford to take some eggs out of the hockey basket and put them into the football basket, and hockey will continue to function just fine.

I agree with almost everything in your post, except for this sentence. I don't view it as a zero-sum game. UND should be able to grow interest in football without taking anything away from hockey. The move to DI will hopefully be the catalyst.

[UND92,96]

Actually, they are counted. Currently, UND is reporting paid attendance. It won't even matter when they switch to actual attendance; people in the suites will still be part of the count. Where the suites don't count is towards the 12,300 capacity. Since UND does not sell those tickets (the Alerus does), they don't consider them part of the regular capacity. I don't think that's the right decision and I'd add in the ADA stands as well. As long as they're in place for every game, they should be counted as a part of the standard capacity.

I guess I'm confused as to how suites are treated. I knew they were no longer considered in terms of the Alerus' capacity of roughly 12,300, but I was also under the impression that they also weren't counted at all as part of the attendance. An example would be the reported attendance from the NDSU game in 2003. That was essentially a full house, but attendance was reported as being 12,267. It's tough to explain that number if suites ARE actually counted. It seems to me that the ACTUAL attendance for that game was in excess of 13,000. Ditto for the UC-Davis playoff game in 2001.

[Hammersmith]

I guess I'm confused as to how suites are treated. I knew they were no longer considered in terms of the Alerus' capacity of roughly 12,300, but I was also under the impression that they also weren't counted at all as part of the attendance. An example would be the reported attendance from the NDSU game in 2003. That was essentially a full house, but attendance was reported as being 12,267. It's tough to explain that number if suites ARE actually counted. It seems to me that the ACTUAL attendance for that game was in excess of 13,000. Ditto for the UC-Davis playoff game in 2001.

I was basing my interpretation off the response you recieved from Julie Ward a few months ago.

The total capacity of the Alerus Center for UND Football, including suites, standing room only, main bowl and ADA available risers, is 13,500. The UND football media guide lists the actual capacity in the bowl, which is 12,283 thereabouts. UND does not have control over our suites or whether or not we're able to add the ADA risers and go to SRO, so that is why they list the lower number.

UND reports the attendance number based on total tickets issued and that is the number that we use when reporting attendance at UND football games. Please contact UND media relations if you have additional questions regarding the game attendance.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion. Thank you,

Julie Ward

Director of Sales & Marketing

My thoughts were that, since a ticket is issued to a suite holder or a SRO attendee, they would be counted in the attendance. My question would be: How many SRO tickets were sold for those games and were the risers used? You could well be right that the suite holders are not counted. The rather low attendance figures for those sellouts is a bit suspicious.

[bincitysioux]

There are certainly fans that think that way, but I bet for at least some of them it's not a hockey vs. non-hockey thing as much as a DI vs. DII thing. They don't care about the other sports because they're DII.

I don't know if it is really a case of "football or basketball are DII so I don't care to go to those games". I think it is more a case of UND hockey fans used to playing UMTC, UW, Maine, BC, etc., etc. Those are big time schools that interest even just the casual sports fan (which since the new REA was built there are alot of "casual" sports fans that go to hockey games. Then these same fans see that the football team is playing Winona or the basketball team is playing Wayne St. and they probably think, "who the fork is that?".

If UND hockey played in a division that did not include the best teams in the country, interest would fall dramatically.

Hopefully interest in UND football will grow along with the level of competition. But it's also essential to win.

The bigger pool of competition that DI will offer in like-opponents to UND will create more fan interest. Remember, the biggest crowd to ever show up for a basketball game in ND was for a Sioux basketball game (Kansas, ~13,000) and the last Sioux-Bison basketball game in GF drew over 7,000. In the last six years Sioux football has drawn between 10-13,000 for games against UC-Davis, NDSU, SDSU, UNO and others. The fans are here, they just don't like the competition lately.

When the Sioux move up and are competing successfully against schools like Montana, Montana St., Northern Iowa, Minnesota, etc., etc., more of the non-diehards are going to take notice. The trick is going to be to get notable DI schools to come to GF on a regular basis.

And if UND really wants those that reside in the "hockey-only" fan section to get interested in other sports, it would be wise to get other DI hockey-playing schools that they identify with on the schedule for other sports.

I'm very confident that there will be a sharp increase in attendance starting with the 2008 season.