Sioux/Winona State

[BigGame]

We all have opinions on schedules and who would have done what with someone else's schedule.

I went to a source that has no dog in this fight (to try to take my opinion out of it):

Massey Ratings, Strength of Schedule.

NDSU 138

UND 149

If you want to talk Massey Ratings, here are the first five non-DI-As listed:

NDSU

Montana

UMass

North Dakota <-- #1 in DII, ahead of all but 3 of DI-AA

Youngstown St.

I understand, but I don't give the massey ratings a lot of credence. UND should not be ranked ahead of NW missouri or GV in any current rankings. Just like all of these numbers and ranking systems it is flawed.

[Woden]

I understand, but I don't give the massey ratings a lot of credence. UND should not be ranked ahead of NW missouri or GV in any current rankings. Just like all of these numbers and ranking systems it is flawed.

Are you really this naive or are you just playing dumb? The numbers given are for strength of schedule regardless of division. If UND had scheduled Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Arkansas, Notre Dame, Florida, Wisconsin, LSU, Rutgers, and Cal this year they would be #1 in this ranking system. They would be 0-10, but would also be number one here. This is not a system that ranks how good teams are regardless of division. The point being made is that even though NDSU swears this is "the hardest schedule in the history of football," this rating system has their schedule pretty similiar to that of UND's.

[BigGame]

Are you really this naive or are you just playing dumb? The numbers given are for strength of schedule regardless of division. If UND had scheduled Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Arkansas, Notre Dame, Florida, Wisconsin, LSU, Rutgers, and Cal this year they would be #1 in this ranking system. They would be 0-10, but would also be number one here. This is not a system that ranks how good teams are regardless of division. The point being made is that even though NDSU swears this is "the hardest schedule in the history of football," this rating system has their schedule pretty similiar to that of UND's.

Yes, but Tiffin going 9-1 would help a lot of teams SOS even though they are not a very good football team. Do the Massey rating have some merit, sure but the system is still very flawed no matter what you think.

I understood it as it is the hardest schedule NDSU has ever played, and it is very possible that it is the toughest schedule NDSU has played. Some people indication UND played a tougher schedule this season which is absolutely untrue, even though UND prabably had the toughest schedule in D2 football.

[LeftyZL]

Yes, but Tiffin going 9-1 would help a lot of teams SOS even though they are not a very good football team. Do the Massey rating have some merit, sure but the system is still very flawed no matter what you think.

I understood it as it is the hardest schedule NDSU has ever played, and it is very possible that it is the toughest schedule NDSU has played. Some people indication UND played a tougher schedule this season which is absolutely untrue, even though UND prabably had the toughest schedule in D2 football.

Isn't every system, to a degree, flawed? Doesn't UND's SOS get bumped up mistakenly because of Winona State and its 9-3 record? Yep. Doesn't UND directly benefit from Winona State playing a rather weak schedule overall? Yep Again. It obviously helps UND out by playing them twice. You can make a case about every ranking system out there.

The whole point that I have been trying to make is that no matter how many people say it was the hardest schedule NDSU has played, the numbers just don't add up. The teams they played this year didn't have their best year records-wise. Just because you look at NDSU's schedule and see the names "Georgia Southern, Minnesota, SDSU, UC-Davis, Cal-Poly" doesn't get you the toughest schedule. Like I've already stated, the games aren't played on paper, they are played on the field. If NDSU has the identical schedule next year, I would expect their SOS to be much higher just for the fact that so many of the teams on their current schedule had rather mediocre if not poor years compared to what I'm used to seeing out of them.

[Cratter]

I understand, but I don't give the massey ratings a lot of credence. UND should not be ranked ahead of NW missouri or GV in any current rankings. Just like all of these numbers and ranking systems it is flawed.

Only unintellectual men try and argue with unbiased information.

It would be a different story if it was the beginning of the season, but it's not.

[BigGame]

Isn't every system, to a degree, flawed? Doesn't UND's SOS get bumped up mistakenly because of Winona State and its 9-3 record? Yep. Doesn't UND directly benefit from Winona State playing a rather weak schedule overall? Yep Again. It obviously helps UND out by playing them twice. You can make a case about every ranking system out there.

The whole point that I have been trying to make is that no matter how many people say it was the hardest schedule NDSU has played, the numbers just don't add up. The teams they played this year didn't have their best year records-wise. Just because you look at NDSU's schedule and see the names "Georgia Southern, Minnesota, SDSU, UC-Davis, Cal-Poly" doesn't get you the toughest schedule. Like I've already stated, the games aren't played on paper, they are played on the field. If NDSU has the identical schedule next year, I would expect their SOS to be much higher just for the fact that so many of the teams on their current schedule had rather mediocre if not poor years compared to what I'm used to seeing out of them.

They also played 2 fully funded 1a schools this season, if this can't be argued as NDSU toughest schedule ever (possibly at least). What season did they have a tougher schedule? The old NCC was pretty tough, but certainly not on the level with games like these.

[BigGame]

Only unintellectual men try and argue with unbiased information.

It would be a different story if it was the beginning of the season, but it's not.

They fact that you think the Massey system doesn't have a any bias built into it is just stupid! It's not bias like people are bias by being complete and total homers. As bad a team as WSU is (and there are tons like WSU out there with great records because they play even worse teams) they helped UND SOS because of a bunch of wins over Crookston, Northern State, Moorhead, etc. Heck Tiffin had only one loss this season and they are worse then WSU, yet a teams SOS goes up just by playing them.

[Cratter]

They fact that you think the Massey system doesn't have a any bias built into it is just stupid! It's not bias like people are bias by being complete and total homers. As bad a team as WSU is (and there are tons like WSU out there with great records because they play even worse teams) they helped UND SOS because of a bunch of wins over Crookston, Northern State, Moorhead, etc. Heck Tiffin had only one loss this season and they are worse then WSU, yet a teams SOS goes up just by playing them.

and yet NDSU played a bunch of teams with .500 or worse records (8 out of their 11 opponents) yet they still have a decent SOS according to Massey. And we could continue to go around and around, or you could just use an unbiased source.

The Massey system must be pretty good because it is used to help crown the national champion in college football (IA).

[LeftyZL]

They also played 2 fully funded 1a schools this season, if this can't be argued as NDSU toughest schedule ever (possibly at least). What season did they have a tougher schedule? The old NCC was pretty tough, but certainly not on the level with games like these.

Being a fully-funded D-1A school doesn't mean you are gonna be tough competition. That's a poor statement to make. That's like looking at their schedule on paper before the season starts, and saying it's going to be the toughest schedule to date for the football team. How good is Ball State? Not very good. Minnesota? Well, it's the same old Minnesota. Minnesota=Mediocre. Being fully-funded doesn't mean you are going to be a more quality opponent. At best it gives you some depth, but that doesn't automatically make you a good team. Also, 2 games don't make a season. You need to look at the entire body of work. Look at Stanford, Mississippi State, Syracuse, Minnesota....how good are those D-1A teams? Not very good.

Like I said, I'm not trying to take anything away from their season, because they had a great season and they could possibly win a National Title if they were able to play in the play-offs this year.

[BigGame]

Being a fully-funded D-1A school doesn't mean you are gonna be tough competition. That's a poor statement to make. That's like looking at their schedule on paper before the season starts, and saying it's going to be the toughest schedule to date for the football team. How good is Ball State? Not very good. Minnesota? Well, it's the same old Minnesota. Minnesota=Mediocre. Being fully-funded doesn't mean you are going to be a more quality opponent. At best it gives you some depth, but that doesn't automatically make you a good team. Also, 2 games don't make a season. You need to look at the entire body of work. Look at Stanford, Mississippi State, Syracuse, Minnesota....how good are those D-1A teams? Not very good.

Like I said, I'm not trying to take anything away from their season, because they had a great season and they could possibly win a National Title if they were able to play in the play-offs this year.

So do you honestly believe that any of the NCC teams would beat Ball State or Minnesota? Ball State competed with Michigan and it is sick to think that they are a bad team. The are an average 1a team that would easily stroll through the NCC and UND schedule. If you really think Ball State and Minnesota are not a lot better than the competition in the current and former NCC you are delusional.

Stanford, Mississippi State, Syracuse, Minnesota....how good are those D-1A teams?

And yet all, but maybe Stanford would role through a 1aa schedule and crush all but the very best in D2.

Also I have watched 2 bison games on the tube this year. Watched UC-Davis and Cal-Poly both play and well and Ball State and MN. They are all better football teams then what UND has faced this season with the exception of UNI which wasn't playing very well when they played UND.

Where do you think SDSU would have placed in the NCC with the team they have right now?

[BigGame]

The Massey system must be pretty good because it is used to help crown the national champion in college football (IA).

Yeah, thats a great system!

[dlsiouxfan]

Where do you think SDSU would have placed in the NCC with the team they have right now?

SDSU most likely would have finished around 7-3 or 6-4 right in the middle of the NCC like they did for most of the seasons they still played in the NCC. After all this is the same team that lost to Wisconsin- Lacrosse and needed to come back in the fourth quarter to beat William Penn, a bad NAIA school. Furthermore, there are 15- 20 I-AA's and probably 10 D2's that would have done just as well or better against Minnesota and Ball State. It's been proven that all more scholarships for football provides is really greater depth and a scholarship advantage will never make up for poor coaching (Minnesota) or the inability to recruit good athletes to your program (Ball State).

[NDSU grad]

...needed to come back in the fourth quarter to beat William Penn, a bad NAIA school.

Umm, no they didn't. LINK

Furthermore, there are 15- 20 I-AA's and probably 10 D2's that would have done just as well or better against Minnesota and Ball State.

I would love you to name the 10 D2's who would have had a chance to win on the last play of the game against Minnesota (a bowl team, btw) in the Metrodome.

[FargoBison]

SDSU most likely would have finished around 7-3 or 6-4 right in the middle of the NCC like they did for most of the seasons they still played in the NCC. After all this is the same team that lost to Wisconsin- Lacrosse and needed to come back in the fourth quarter to beat William Penn, a bad NAIA school. Furthermore, there are 15- 20 I-AA's and probably 10 D2's that would have done just as well or better against Minnesota and Ball State. It's been proven that all more scholarships for football provides is really greater depth and a scholarship advantage will never make up for poor coaching (Minnesota) or the inability to recruit good athletes to your program (Ball State).

Wow, your delusional both Minnesota and Ball St are decent I-A teams(and would destroy any DII team and most I-AA teams). As for Massey it is a pile of crap, any ranking system that tries to rank teams across divisions is always going to be flawed in my opinion.

[dlsiouxfan]

OK I stand corrected on the William Penn statement. I really don't follow bunnie football all that much. I stand by the rest of my statements, however. Minnesota and Ball State are terrible I-A football teams and just because they hand out bowls to every team that finishes .500 or better in I-A doesn't change that. As for naming 10 D-II's here we go Grand Valley State, UND, USD, UNO, Northwest Missouri State, Valdosta State, North Alabama, and Delta State would all have given Minnesota all they could handle. I guess that's only eight but who knows I'm probably forgetting someone. You can continue to live in the delusional world where the bison dominate the small college football world and no one else could play with them or you can join the rest of us in the real world.

[BigGame]

Furthermore, there are 15- 20 I-AA's and probably 10 D2's that would have done just as well or better against Minnesota and Ball State.

[BigGame]

OK I stand corrected on the William Penn statement. I really don't follow bunnie football all that much. I stand by the rest of my statements, however. Minnesota and Ball State are terrible I-A football teams and just because they hand out bowls to every team that finishes .500 or better in I-A doesn't change that. As for naming 10 D-II's here we go Grand Valley State, UND, USD, UNO, Northwest Missouri State, Valdosta State, North Alabama, and Delta State would all have given Minnesota all they could handle. I guess that's only eight but who knows I'm probably forgetting someone. You can continue to live in the delusional world where the bison dominate the small college football world and no one else could play with them or you can join the rest of us in the real world.

Have you seen NDSU play this year?

[FargoBison]

OK I stand corrected on the William Penn statement. I really don't follow bunnie football all that much. I stand by the rest of my statements, however.

Apparently, you don't follow football outside of the DII world very much. Minnesota is 6-6 and going bowling, mediocore teams go bowling and that is what Minnesota is. You want terrible take a look at Buffalo or Temple or Duke becuase anyone of those teams would get thrashed and have gotten thrashed by Ball St and Minnesota this year. I'd take Ball St over any of the those DII teams by three TD's and Minnesota over any of those teams by 4 TD's.

[dlsiouxfan]

Ball State had a 5-7 season playing in the MAC conference. A conference that for all practical purposes should be rate below both the Big Sky and Great West in football. Minnesota finished the season 6-6 by beating up on the bottom half of the Big 10 (Illinois, Indiana), schools that would be only slightly more competitive than Duke and other I-A bottom feeders.

Yes, Big Sioux I've seen the Bison play numerous times this year and yes they are a good football squad. Good, not great. Walker is a solid quarterback who makes good decisions for the offense they run, but throws a terrible deep ball. As a whole their offense lacks playmakers. They have several good players (Heckendorf, Majeski, Steffes), however, none could even be considered on par with Chappel or Dressler in terms of playmaking ability. Their defense was quite impressive and definitely the strength of the team. Their d-line is solid and Humbar and Maresh are actually their two better linebackers even though Mays gets all the press. If the Sioux and the Bison played this year it would most likely be an excellent game that would come right down to the wire like most of those played in the series. It should also be noted that far more talented Bison squads (2001,2003) have played against the Sioux and came away with losses.

[dakotadan]

Do you guys realize that WE (UND) are playing in a playoff game tomorrow?

[GeauxSioux]

I agree, NDSU had a fine season. Who Cares??? Move on!

Go Sioux.

[NanoBison]

We all have opinions on schedules and who would have done what with someone else's schedule.

I went to a source that has no dog in this fight (to try to take my opinion out of it):

Massey Ratings, Strength of Schedule.

NDSU 138

UND 149

If you want to talk Massey Ratings, here are the first five non-DI-As listed:

NDSU

Montana

UMass

North Dakota <-- #1 in DII, ahead of all but 3 of DI-AA

Youngstown St.

Yeah Sicatoka, you just hop on over to the Montana board and tell them you're strength of schedule is pretty much equivalent to theirs. When you come back crying because everyone was laughing at you, I'll just grin with a smirk on my face.

[NanoBison]

I agree, NDSU had a fine season. Who Cares??? Move on!

Go Bison!!!

That's funny, last time I checked it was a free country. I'll continue posting if I want to. If you don't like it, quite reading the thread!

[NanoBison]

... If the Sioux and the Bison played this year it would most likely be an excellent game that would come right down to the wire like most of those played in the series...

ROFLMAO

Thanks, I needed a good laugh...

[GeauxSioux]

That's funny, last time I checked it was a free country.

That reminds me of the argument of a five year old. You can't make me stop, it's a free country.