DI Conference Speculation

[MplsBison]

Big12 to be cannibalized by Big10 and Pac10?

This summer should prove very interesting. With the cascade of conference changes coming, the idea that the Summit will exist even approaching it's current form, is growing more absurd with each passing day.

Still desperately grasping for anything you can use to de-value UND's need for Summit membership?

Pathetic.

The Summit and the current Summit members aren't going anywhere.

The conference realignments are going to be for the large schools. Not many openings for the low-majors.

[MplsBison]

Rule 1, point F:

Folks, this is the logical outcome of the flocking to Division I by many formerly Division II schools over the last 10 years, and honestly, a case could be made of over the last 35 years (since Montana and UNI moved up).

If I'm catching your drift correctly, then I think the logically outcome is this: there will be a play-off postseason in major college football...once major college football teams break away from the NCAA and form their own NFL minor league so they can keep the billions of dollars amongst themselves.

The big schools hold all the cards (TV ratings), not the NCAA.

[The Sicatoka]

The big schools hold all the cards (TV ratings), not the NCAA.

Yup. If they leave the NCAA there won't be much left because they generate the majority of fan interest and revenue.

[bincitysioux]

The Summit and the current Summit members aren't going anywhere.

The conference realignments are going to be for the large schools. Not many openings for the low-majors.

So you think it is absurd that the Big 10 could take one or more Big East schools who could then take a Conference USA school who would then raid the MVC who would probably look to the Horizon for a replacement who would just have to leave the Summit alone, because no Summit schools have ever moved on to the Horizon, nor would they want to........... You really don't think that schools like Oakland, IPFW, or IUPUI wouldn't leap at the chance to get out of the Summit and move on to the Horizon League if they were looking for members?

[MplsBison]

So you think it is absurd that the Big 10 could take one or more Big East schools who could then take a Conference USA school who would then raid the MVC who would probably look to the Horizon for a replacement who would just have to leave the Summit alone, because no Summit schools have ever moved on to the Horizon, nor would they want to........... You really don't think that schools like Oakland, IPFW, or IUPUI wouldn't leap at the chance to get out of the Summit and move on to the Horizon League if they were looking for members?

Not really. It would be a lateral move, especially with the tournament expansion. Horizon will never get more than 2 in and it's very likely Summit could get 2 in after the expansion.

Plus, on top of that, who is the CUSA going to take from the MVC that makes sense and who is the MVC going to take from the Horizon that makes sense? Propose what you think are reasonable moves and we can discuss from there.

[star2city]

Not really. It would be a lateral move, especially with the tournament expansion. Horizon will never get more than 2 in and it's very likely Summit could get 2 in after the expansion.

Plus, on top of that, who is the CUSA going to take from the MVC that makes sense and who is the MVC going to take from the Horizon that makes sense? Propose what you think are reasonable moves and we can discuss from there.

Quit trying to blow smoke up our *ss:

Horizon League get's 2 bids for second time in three years

You refused to discuss that Summit schools to Horizon scenario here, instead going into your normal tirade about how stupid UND fans are for not dropping the nickname.

http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=434047

We know your spiel is just to aggravate and agitate: it gives you your jollies. But you stating the Summit is somehow a secure conference shows naivety to the nth degree.

[MplsBison]

Quit trying to blow smoke up our *ss:

Horizon League get's 2 bids for second time in three years

You refused to discuss that Summit schools to Horizon scenario here, instead going into your normal tirade about how stupid UND fans are for not dropping the nickname.

http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=434047

We know your spiel is just to aggravate and agitate: it gives you your jollies. But you stating the Summit is somehow a secure conference shows naivety to the nth degree.

How does showing that the Horizon has gotten 2 bids for the 2nd time in 3 years counter my claim that they'll never get more than 2 in the tournament?

No one has offered an argument as to why Oakland or the IUPU schools would move to the Horizon if invited to join. My argument against it: it's a lateral move. Also, it would only come to that if the Horizon lost a school to someone else. But no one has presented a plausible scenario where that would happen.

[bincitysioux]

How does showing that the Horizon has gotten 2 bids for the 2nd time in 3 years counter my claim that they'll never get more than 2 in the tournament?

No one has offered an argument as to why Oakland or the IUPU schools would move to the Horizon if invited to join. My argument against it: it's a lateral move. Also, it would only come to that if the Horizon lost a school to someone else. But no one has presented a plausible scenario where that would happen.

It is hardly a lateral move:

• Valparaiso pretty much dominated the Mid-Con before they left, now they struggle in the Horizon
  
• Since 2005 the Horizon has finished in the RPI as high as 10 and no lower than 16, the Summit has finished anwhere from 16 to 25, usually in the 20's
  
• 7 of the 10 current Horizon members are FORMER Mid-Con members (that's alot of lateral movement)
  
• It is a much more stable league having lost just 1 member and adding two in the last 13 years; on average, the Summit experiences member turnover every 2 years
  
• It would give geographical bliss to a school like Oakland, IUPUI, or IPFW
  
• If the Summit ever does become a 2 bid conference, as you say it will be due to expansion, and that would likely mean the Horizon beoming a 3 or 4 bid conference because of the higher level of play
  

When the Big East splits and loses member/s to the Big 10, thier primary hunting grounds will be C-USA, the Missouri Valley, and the Horizon......

[The Sicatoka]

Money (television revenue, or collapsing state budgets) will be changing the landscape of college athletics markedly over the next five years.

[Herd]

Money (television revenue, or collapsing state budgets) will be changing the landscape of college athletics markedly over the next five years.

The college landscape is the least of your indepent school's issues. UND isn't going to get a NSIC bid, let alone a B12 bid with nickname problems. If you ever do make it into the Summit, you will be thankful and and appreciative, trust me. If not, hopefully you will find a home.

[Herd]

What's FCS (DI-AA) when you have data like this in FBS (DI-A) from spring 2009:

There's that massive of a gap in FBS football.

FCS (DI-AA) doesn't even register.

If you want to believe that your school doesn't matter, good for you! The top 25 in FBS that have 50-100k in the stands for every game are going to have money, just a fact. The rest of the FBS is just like the FCS that you are trying to run down. Don't stop with running down DI FCS, make sure you include most of the DI FBS too, it's the same comparision when you are talking about Alabama. Just another poster on this board who would be happier to be insignificant at the DII level I guess.

[Cratter]

I Just another poster on this board who would be happier to be insignificant at the DII level I guess.

I think your missing the bigger point. Teams are constantly "moving up" the few large schools can't move up anymore despite the fact they want to. Looks like everyones trying to place themselves in position for a move to FBS: NDSU, UND, SDSU, UM. Meanwhile somethings going to give. Too many teams are going to be at the top. Rarely anyone moves down. Everything will be coming to a head sooner rather than later. And it all has to do with money. Everyone wants to play with the big boys. No body wants to play a little boy. The reality is people need to play with their peers. Same attendance same enrollment. After all we are basically playing the same teams of the old "Division 2." People water downed D2 So we water down D1. The NCAA won't tell you what division to play in but stricter rules will be in place. All this means is unstability. I pity the fool who is unable to see the changes coming.

Its laughable to think UND couldn't and won't get into a conference as if they are hard to get into. Hardly. People act like these 5-10 years mean anything. They are statistically insignificant in the long run. I know many are use to a stable conference in the NCC where the founding members were together for basically 80 years. News flash. This is Division 1 things are constantly changing. The very nature of wanting to be "D1" shows itself Universities are always looking for the next best thing.

I am only in my 20's and I am older than the Midcontinent I mean Summit league. Yet only one original member is still in the league. And the league ain't going to help travel costs. From North Dakota to Louisiana, Utah to Michigan. It has to be one of the most spread out conferences.

UND will have no problems joining a conference.

[Shawn-O]

I think your missing the bigger point. Teams are constantly "moving up" the few large schools can't move up anymore despite the fact they want to. Looks like everyones trying to place themselves in position for a move to FBS: NDSU, UND, SDSU, UM

UND will have no problems joining a conference.

Sounds great! Other than the Mid-Con/Summit, what are UND's top three prospects?

[Herd]

Any conference that und/ndsu would be asked to join at the present time is not going to be at the 85 scholarship level for football. It just won't happen, maybe down the road, but not now for a new DI school. What conferenece that sponsors FBS football is going to come calling to ND? Sunbelt, USA, MAC, WAC, MWC . . . no, no, no, no & no . . . sorry.

When you are struggling to sponsor the needed scholarships for the rest of your sports IMO like our schools are, why would you even want to be at the 85 scholarship level for football? It would hurt your overall program, and shouldn't be a serious consideration for the next 5-10 years. It makes no sense to assume the call is coming from a conference that sponsors FBS football.

[Cratter]

I know we live close to Minnesota, but we ND also borders Montana.

[Cratter]

It makes no sense to assume the call is coming from a conference that sponsors FBS football.

I think you missed the point again.

[Herd]

I think you missed the point again.

What is the point then? Is the point that 'It's fun to talk about what's happening in the B12 and has nothing to do with UND'? I thought this was supposed to have something to do with UND's next conference. Certainly the movement in the top conferences will be helpful and create some trickle down movement, I agree with that.

[82SiouxGuy]

Sounds great! Other than the Mid-Con/Summit, what are UND's top three prospects?

I've asked this basic question on several different occasions, and no one has provided an answer. For those that think getting into the Summit is not important because UND will find another league, what other league is an option? As a matter of fact I will open up the question to anyone on the board. Please tell all of us what other league options UND will have besides the Summit in Division I for sports other than football and hockey. Bonus points to anyone that can give some odds for getting into the other leagues.

[Cratter]

I've asked this basic question on several different occasions, and no one has provided an answer. For those that think getting into the Summit is not important because UND will find another league, what other league is an option? As a matter of fact I will open up the question to anyone on the board. Please tell all of us what other league options UND will have besides the Summit in Division I for sports other than football and hockey. Bonus points to anyone that can give some odds for getting into the other leagues.

Maybe cause its irrelevant.

About as irrelevant as me saying: it doesn't matter cause, news flash, UND is already in a conference. Why do they need to move to a different one. I understand its shortcoming, but nothing that can't be changed in the years to come. Add some more members, wait a few years, and BAM!

You happy I answered your question. Let me guess its not the "answer" you wanted?

You need conferences UND could join? Couldnt' you look that up yourself? Or is there some criteria you need to qualify for your answer? Do they have to be close to the Dakotas? Have to be "hiring?" Big Sky? Missouri Valley? Ohio Valley Conference?

There's 14 FCS conferences. Maybe you could pick some too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I#Conferences_2

[The Sicatoka]

Sounds great! Other than the Mid-Con/Summit, what are UND's top three prospects?

Good question.

How about another that's never been answered:

What is the total cost of a moniker change (turf, courts, facilities changes, uniforms, gear, lapel pins for "suits", and whatever else)?

You have to weight everything together, not just pieces that suit a point of view.

[MplsBison]

Good question.

How about another that's never been answered:

What is the total cost of a moniker change (turf, courts, facilities changes, uniforms, gear, lapel pins for "suits", and whatever else)?

You have to weight everything together, not just pieces that suit a point of view.

Turf, courts, uniforms, gear, etc. have to be replaced regardless. No additional cost to UND that they were not going to occur anyway. Simply, the next time it's replaced it won't have Sioux or the logo.

What other facility changes are you referring?

Be specific.

[The Sicatoka]

I think your missing the bigger point. Teams are constantly "moving up" the few large schools can't move up anymore despite the fact they want to. Looks like everyones trying to place themselves in position for a move to FBS: NDSU, UND, SDSU, UM. Meanwhile somethings going to give. Too many teams are going to be at the top. Rarely anyone moves down. Everything will be coming to a head sooner rather than later. And it all has to do with money. Everyone wants to play with the big boys. No body wants to play a little boy. The reality is people need to play with their peers. Same attendance same enrollment. After all we are basically playing the same teams of the old "Division 2." People water downed D2 So we water down D1. The NCAA won't tell you what division to play in but stricter rules will be in place. All this means is unstability. I pity the fool who is unable to see the changes coming.

This must of Cratter's post I completely agree with.

The bolded parts are harsh reality screaming down the tracks at all of us who call ourselves college sports fans.

[MplsBison]

This must of Cratter's post I completely agree with.

The bolded parts are harsh reality screaming down the tracks at all of us who call ourselves college sports fans.

Something will change, yes. But will it directly affect UND? I don't think it will.

I don't see any of the current Summit teams leaving the league for other conferences due to Big Ten/Pac 10 expansion or a Big East split.

[The Sicatoka]

What other facility changes are you referring?

Any structure with the name or logo in a "non-consumable" condition (i.e. architectural).

[The Sicatoka]

I don't see any of the current Summit teams leaving the league for other conferences due to Big Ten/Pac 10 expansion or a Big East split.

So those changes won't have "trickle down" effect on aspirational leagues for current Summit teams?

You're not that naive.