UND declaring internal Division 1 move

[RD17]

Do you have access to the exact same information that UND's leadership used to make its decsion? Because unless you do, you're simply blowing hot air.

If Kupchella is going to come out today and say "we're going Division I", then it makes no sense to delay because apparently the university is moving regardless of what is discovered in the "exploratory exploratory" year!

And if you're going to try to tell me that the UND leadership is working with some super secret information that led to this decision to wait a year, I'm not buying it.

Like IowaBison said, all this is doing is extending the transition phase by an extra year.

[dmksioux]

If Kupchella is going to come out today and say "we're going Division I", then it makes no sense to delay because apparently the university is moving regardless of what is discovered in the "exploratory exploratory" year!

And if you're going to try to tell me that the UND leadership is working with some super secret information that led to this decision to wait a year, I'm not buying it.

Like IowaBison said, all this is doing is extending the transition phase by an extra year.

What's kind of funny/ironic about this debate is that most of the Bison Fans over on Bville think it's a good idea for UND to wait the extra year to have the exploratory year. They state they did it not only to find a partner but out of respect for the NCC and the current players/coaches.

[mksioux]

It's a little disappointing that they're waiting an extra year, but at least it's happening. It needed to happen, and year late is better than not at all.

[PCM]

And if you're going to try to tell me that the UND leadership is working with some super secret information that led to this decision to wait a year, I'm not buying it.

I'm not saying that it's "super secret." I am saying that you don't know everything that Kupchella knows.

[Siouxman]

I can live with the extra year. The reason is the need to have a conference affiliation. To me, that issue is the biggest anchor around NDSU's athletic programs. It makes no sense to me to go D-1 and live as an independent for a number of years, hoping that someone will be willing to play you. You can't build up any conference rivalries, and the situation seems to stagnate. Now that UND has made the announcement, conferences looking for potential members will give UND a little more consideration when we come knocking.

Now we move forward.

[89rabbit]

Welcome to D-I in everything you do.

Go State!

[aff]

I can live with the extra year. The reason is the need to have a conference affiliation. To me, that issue is the biggest anchor around NDSU's athletic programs. It makes no sense to me to go D-1 and live as an independent for a number of years, hoping that someone will be willing to play you. You can't build up any conference rivalries, and the situation seems to stagnate. Now that UND has made the announcement, conferences looking for potential members will give UND a little more consideration when we come knocking.

Now we move forward.

Yeah, I'm sure conferences are dying to have a school that will be eligible a year later. Nobody is going to be interested until you are close to being post season eligible. The getting through the transition in a conference dream should die now, because it isn't going to happen.

I think the motivation around the extra year is totally financial on Kup's part.

[aff]

Welcome to D-I in everything you do.

Go State!

I just saw 89rabbit, the man I've been accused of being posted there! Nice to finally meet you 89rabbit!

[The Sicatoka]

I think the motivation around the extra year is totally financial on Kup's part.

You're probably right, but he was at a school that did it the wrong way before coming to UND. I'm sure he wants cash in the bank, not promises, long before the big bills start to come in.

Like I said,

Am I happy with the delay? No. Do I believe admin has reasons for it? Yes. ...

Is long-term fiscal soundness worth a potential short-term dip in recruiting? I'd have to grumble out a "yes".

[RD17]

I'm not saying that it's "super secret." I am saying that you don't know everything that Kupchella knows.

OK... give me an example of something Kupchella could possibly know that would necessitate a one year delay in the process.

[nodakvindy]

It will be interest to see if UND takes the opportunity to announce an immediate move of two sports (I'd guess mens and womens swimming) under the current play up rule. That would give a measure of credibility to this "internal move" and make the two likeliest non-revenue sports that could be competitive eligible for postseason competition sooner.

[The Sicatoka]

OK... give me an example of something Kupchella could possibly know that would necessitate a one year delay in the process.

The check is post-dated.

[The Sicatoka]

It will be interest to see if UND takes the opportunity to announce an immediate move of two sports (I'd guess mens and womens swimming) under the current play up rule. That would give a measure of credibility to this "internal move" and make the two likeliest non-revenue sports that could be competitive eligible for postseason competition sooner.

That's right, they can move two up (one M, one W) because hockey isn't playing up under the "play up" rule but under the "there's no DII championship" rule. (Can't be FB or BB teams however.)

[RD17]

The check is post-dated.

[govikes27]

Share the sentiments of this board. Want the move, not crazy about extending an already long transition period. However, most everyone would agree it would be good to have more concreate financing ready. Also is probably at least part PR to be extra deliberate, in contrast to how NDSU's move was seen by critics.

[BisonMav]

Share the sentiments of this board. Want the move, not crazy about extending an already long transition period. However, most everyone would agree it would be good to have more concreate financing ready. Also is probably at least part PR to be extra deliberate, in contrast to how NDSU's move was seen by critics.

Please explain?

[MplsBison]

It will be interest to see if UND takes the opportunity to announce an immediate move of two sports (I'd guess mens and womens swimming) under the current play up rule. That would give a measure of credibility to this "internal move" and make the two likeliest non-revenue sports that could be competitive eligible for postseason competition sooner.

Don't hockey already takes these?

[aff]

You're probably right, but he was at a school that did it the wrong way before coming to UND. I'm sure he wants cash in the bank, not promises, long before the big bills start to come in.

Like I said,

Just to restate my post before, I didn't mean it to sound like waiting for financial reasons was bad in my opinion, just that financial reasons probably were why they were waiting a year. I think that its probably a prudent move financially, although many of the athletic teams will suffer more than they already would have because of this. Your next couple recruiting classes are going to be interesting, and a challenge for your coaches.

[Cratter]

Nobody is going to be interested until you are close to being post season eligible. The getting through the transition in a conference dream should die now, because it isn't going to happen.

Wouldn't be the first time your wrong and probably won't be the last.

In five years, UND will still be in D-II working on their hockey program. 10 years from now, talk about UND and NDSU playing each other is going to seem like a novelty.

[nodakvindy]

Don't hockey already takes these?

No, hockey doesn't count because there is no Division II Championship. So UND can move up one men's sport and one women's sport. And theoretically, UND could add other sports that also have no Division II championship, like Rifle or Women's Bowling.

I believe moving up two sports right now would put some teeth in the current decision and show that UND isn't going to back out of this. I think this is especially important in appealing to conferences, as the current decision actually shows no formal commitment to DI at this time.

[rabidrabbit]

No, hockey doesn't count because there is no Division II Championship. So UND can move up one men's sport and one women's sport. And theoretically, UND could add other sports that also have no Division II championship, like Rifle or Women's Bowling.

I believe moving up two sports right now would put some teeth in the current decision and show that UND isn't going to back out of this. I think this is especially important in appealing to conferences, as the current decision actually shows no formal commitment to DI at this time.

This is a great idea. SDSU got into the mid-con swimming and diving. started in 2005/06. With as strong a program as UND has in swimming, may be able to get affilate membership in what, if N/SDSU end up there, should be a desired conference.

[MplsBison]

No knock against swimming, but if that's the plan then why not something like volleyball?

[nodakvindy]

No knock against swimming, but if that's the plan then why not something like volleyball?

Because UND's volleyball team isn't competitive in D2, and it's swimming teams could see some success at the D1 level, particularly on an individual level.

[HockeyMom]

I'm excited about the move.

I can't wait to play the Bison in football!

[star2city]

OK... give me an example of something Kupchella could possibly know that would necessitate a one year delay in the process.

Normally, waiting an additional year would invariably harm, or at a minimum, delay a chance to get into a conference. However, there may be an exception where a delay makes sense:

I still believe the Big Sky wants UND/NDSU in the conference. But since NDSU isn't NCAA eligible until 2008-9, it wouldn't be beneficial to the Sky until at least one of the two of us are eligible. Fullerton has implied in the past that the ND schools need to be "patient". Some have interpreted that to mean when Sac St and/or Portland St are gone. But my interpretation is "patient" means when NDSU is eligible. If the Sky were to add a UND/NDSU combo for the 2008-9 season, UND would have a totally seamless transition to DI. By having the exploratory year as 20007-8, the financials benefits to UND would be huge, as it wouldn't have to endure a quixotic independent schedule in any revenue sport for that school year. UND's season ticket bases could actually grow, instead of decline as the did for NDSU and SDSU basketball in their 2nd year of transition.

Expansion predictions:

MidCOn next week - the MidCon badly needs more core members to retain its autobid status. A loss of one more core school could be a fatal blow. IPFW and UTPA are the only 'core' member possiblities. NDSU, SDSU, and Utah Valley are other schools available. The MidCOn will add IPFW, UTPA, and possibly SDSU.

Big Sky next fall - Fullerton has gone on record as saying it is possible that up to three members of the BSC will be lost to the WAC over the next several years. For the Big Sky to maintain its autobid, it would need to add at least one more 'core' member. The only DI 'core' members that might have interest are Denver and Southern Utah. Getting one or the other school is absolutely critical to the future of the Big Sky. Since SUU has some major opposition, Denver is being courted big time and is likely being offered incentives. To make the move, Denver wants rivals, such as UND aboard, and its wants the Sky to drop the 'all sports' requirements. Both requests will be granted, and the Sky will add Denver, NDSU, and UND for the 2008-9 season.