Buning Says UND Moving

[star2city]

I will make one point and this is not isolated at UND. Quite the contrary as a matter of fact. The problem in this country in general when it comes to fiscal policy whether it be government, business, academia, or on a personal level is spending vs. income. UND when you refer to athletics has been operating at a negative. Given Title IX and the hockey situation its no suprise. But the fact is when you consistently spend more then you take in there is something wrong with that picture. So to be looking at spending more when your fiscal house is not in order in the first place in my opinion is wrong. As has been pointed out by many whether you agree or not it appears there are many questions that are legitmate regarding the funding of this move. How anyone can support a huge move without those questions answered and answered honestly not by a committee put together to rubber stamp a move one way or the other is beyond me.

So what is your credit card debt currently? jk

So why is Teammakers constantly running ads for more Teammakers? Where are all the facilities upgrades that NDSU was going to do after moving up? To my knowledge, there's been one upgrade: the football offices and locker rooms in the Fargodome. Wasn't that paid for with a loan from NDSU's alumni association (correct me if I'm wrong)?

I have reason to believe that UND will have much fewer monetary issues than NDSU. All the facts, and donations, are not in yet.

[DI IN FARGO]

So what is your credit card debt currently? jk

So why is Teammakers constantly running ads for more Teammakers? Where are all the facilities upgrades that NDSU was going to do after moving up? To my knowledge, there's been one upgrade: the football offices and locker rooms in the Fargodome. Wasn't that paid for with a loan from NDSU's alumni association (correct me if I'm wrong)?

I have reason to believe that UND will have much fewer monetary issues than NDSU. All the facts, and donations, are not in yet.

Actually I'm proud to say my Credit Card debt is ZERO

As far as the upgrades the BSA is in store for a big upgrade. I'm not sure what other upgrades your referring to but as far as Teammakers running ads, isn't that what they are supposed to do if they want to increase membership? I'm only pointing out that I think there are many unaswered questions that one ad-hoc committee who's credentials I don't know but seem to be lacking given the results of the report would make me wonder. A unbiased professional group should have been brought in to do it so at no matter the outcome or recomendation they had it would have been legit.

[Shawn-O]

A unbiased professional group should have been brought in to do it so at no matter the outcome or recomendation they had it would have been legit.

I'll ask again, what parts of the Carr Report findings did NDSU have "it's house in order" before making the move. I'm not trying to put anyone in a box, I'm genuinely curious. My understanding is the recommendations of this "unbiased, professional group" fell on deaf ears, or the implementation was deferred until later.

[The Sicatoka]

We keep hearing about UND's budget.

Where's NDSU's?

You'd think if all was wine and roses that sucker'd be rolled out there and touted about. Please, someone, show me.

UND's data is on the table.

Show me so I (an ND taxpayer) can see for myself and compare.

[star2city]

What all of you seem to be forgetting is that NDSU has a world-renowned architecture program. Our learning facilities are the envy of the national accredidation board for architecture education (NCARB). They visited our campus recently, and told us that they have never seen such quality facilities for an architecture school. I was always told that there are three humanistic professions in this world: Medicine, law and architecture. NDSU has one of them, and a highly respected one at that. There are a LOT of architecture grads from NDSU that are now making the kind of money that most UND lawyers, doctors and pilots would only dream of obtaining. I agree that both schools have their academic strong points. NDSU has architecture, engineering, pharmacy, agriculture and research, and UND has business, law, aviation, medicine and liberal arts. Both schools are North Dakota's twin flagship schools, the only difference is that one is in DI and one is in DII. I don't think that the seperation of athletics should turn this into a pissing match. Both universities are a lot more alike than you think.

So you're an architecture major?

NDSU has architecture, engineering, pharmacy, agriculture and research, and UND has business, law, aviation, medicine, engineering, research, and liberal arts.

There are numerous programs at UND that are nationally recognized, but get little local publicity. For example: much of the EERC's strengths and growth is directly attributable to graduates of UND's chemical and environmental engineering programs, majors which NDSU does not possess. Also, this type of award wining site, Volcano World, gives the world a glimpse of UND's strengths in space studies and geology.

[aff]

We keep hearing about UND's budget.

Where's NDSU's?

You'd think if all was wine and roses that sucker'd be rolled out there and touted about. Please, someone, show me.

UND's data is on the table.

Show me so I (an ND taxpayer) can see for myself and compare.

What difference does NDSU's budget make? Ohio States budget is 89 million. Now that you know that, did your $700,000 debt disapear? No. How can you possibly think that going D-I is going to balance your budget? That there is even a debate over this is laughable. None of you have any idea how this is going to get payed for, and yet you are such big athletics fans that you are saying to yourself "Who cares, the money will come from somewhere, just go D-I and it will work somehow.". Guess what the admin at Savannah state said? The same thing. Is it that unimaginable that your mens basketball team could go winless over an entire season in two years? Being D-I isn't going to be getting you better football recruits, money will. If you don't have it, then are you going to enjoy watching NDSU beat the hell out of your football team? Right now you'll be competitive with them. When you have the same scholarship numbers and no post season to sell to them, you won't be. Good luck, I think if you go for this D-I move with no idea about money, you're going to be in for a world of hurt of the next five years.

And about the schools academics. I've found that no matter what school or what level of college I attended, the amount I got out of of the school was dependent on the amount I put in. People act like these rankings tell you how much learning that school will inject in you while you attend, which is rediculous. The rankings are idiotic. You're telling me that if I went to UND and was taught my undergrad education by a Ph.D professor, I'm going to learn less than I would being taught by a work study masters student at illinios. Give me a break.

[The Sicatoka]

What difference does NDSU's budget make?

Why look at NDSU's budget?

If they're doing good things, learn from; if they're doing bad things, don't follow.

[legend334]

Ok first of all we didn't supposedly lose recruits to ndsu, we lost them. Go and look at their website you'll see their names on their rosters. We might not have gotten all five but I know of at least two of them who were very high profile football signees who wanted to come here but we couldn't offer a full ride and ndsu could and without one college would not have been affordable. To further my point if we continue to lose kids like these we'll end up having to do one of two things either we can lower our standards and start going after the kids Mary and Minot State our signing and forget about ever winning titles again or our coaches can start looking elsewhere for talent. By elsewhere I mean recruiting kids from further and further out of state or from juco schools. In order to remain competitive we'll probably also be forced to take quite a few chances on kids with academic or character issues just so we can get talented athletes in here.

I know two of the recruits....and one of them is from my hometown...and i know exactly why he didnt chose UND....and it wasnt because he was getting a full ride....and it wasnt because NDSU was D1

[The Sicatoka]

UND lost 5 recruits to NDSU...supposidly....

I find that hard to believe....

I guess I'll believe Rob Bollinger:

Rob Bollinger, with the UND alumni association, said UND has been forced to look farther from home to get football recruits even before a move up, in large part because of pressure from regional rivals that already are Division I.

He said when North Dakota State in Fargo was mulling a move to Division I, that school said it, too, would fill its sports rosters with athletes from far-flung states. However, in nine instances where UND and NDSU soon competed head to head for regional recruits, NDSU got every one of them.

Aren't you a person that wanted Rob to be the AD? Don't we have to trust him on this?

[aff]

Why look at NDSU's budget?

If they're doing good things, learn from; if they're doing bad things, don't follow.

Nice try, but everyone reading this board knows you're trying to deflect attention from a $700,000 deficit (not debt, thanks woden). So I'll ask again, like I did on the other thread, why are you going D-I when you can't afford to be D-II? Just answer it. I don't want to read about:

1. I'm ignorant

2. NDSU blah blah blah

3. SDSU blah blah blah

4. We already have enough money!

5. We'll make it work, you'll see.

The truth is there is no plausible explanation, and all of you know it. You're just choosing not to admit it. So I'm going to keep rubbing the $700,000 deficit in your faces until you actually discuss what the logic of it is. Before you ask, I care because its funny to read you're posts about how everything is fine when its obviously not in any way "fine". Its like watching a relator try and sell some dump. You know its a dump, he/she knows its a dump, but they'll be damed if they admit its a dump. It's "cozy", or "economical". Whatever, its a piece of crap, and I'm going to call you on it.

[The Sicatoka]

Well thank you for that. I assume you did the same for NDSU when they went DI with a previous-year "red" budget.

However, I can't decide what's most humorous about this whole thread-rant (from all sides):

- UND's already been assigned as going. (CEK may have something to say about that yet.)

- People don't want to look at the closest neighbor's athletic budget results to see what things UND might be able to learn from them.

- Believing that UND, if going, and after this much study, doesn't have answers to the tough questions that we aren't privy to (yet). All along CEK has come back to "cost" primarily (and "conference" after that). Either LTC Buning is deaf and didn't hear General Kupchella (and will get "demoted" for it), or LTC Buning has some artillery lined up.

[dlsiouxfan]

Nice try, but everyone reading this board knows you're trying to deflect attention from a $700,000 deficit (not debt, thanks woden). So I'll ask again, like I did on the other thread, why are you going D-I when you can't afford to be D-II? Just answer it. I don't want to read about:

1. I'm ignorant

2. NDSU blah blah blah

3. SDSU blah blah blah

4. We already have enough money!

5. We'll make it work, you'll see.

The truth is there is no plausible explanation, and all of you know it. You're just choosing not to admit it. So I'm going to keep rubbing the $700,000 deficit in your faces until you actually discuss what the logic of it is. Before you ask, I care because its funny to read you're posts about how everything is fine when its obviously not in any way "fine". Its like watching a relator try and sell some dump. You know its a dump, he/she knows its a dump, but they'll be damed if they admit its a dump. It's "cozy", or "economical". Whatever, its a piece of crap, and I'm going to call you on it.

First of all this $700,000 dollar deficit is a projection that hasn't materialized yet and if you care to read other parts of the report aside from the one that supports your argument a very plausible answer for the deficit is given. That is that costs are rising in DII and new sources of revenue need to be found and they aren't in DII. As I remember correctly ndsu was also in the red before their D-1 move but that doesn't matter now I guess. Now on a personal note Aff why don't you share with us where you attended college. I would like to know what academic institution produced a man of your tremendous intelligence since you happen to be the smartest person on this bored.

[dlsiouxfan]

I know two of the recruits....and one of them is from my hometown...and i know exactly why he didnt chose UND....and it wasnt because he was getting a full ride....and it wasnt because NDSU was D1

Well why don't you share why then instead of being so cryptic. There probably are a number of reasons why this recruit didn't attend UND and good for him on picking a school he likes, but we've lost kids for no other reason than ndsu being able to offer a full scholarship and that's something that will hurt us in the long run.

[aff]

First of all this $700,000 dollar deficit is a projection that hasn't materialized yet and if you care to read other parts of the report aside from the one that supports your argument a very plausible answer for the deficit is given. That is that costs are rising in DII and new sources of revenue need to be found and they aren't in DII. As I remember correctly ndsu was also in the red before their D-1 move but that doesn't matter now I guess. Now on a personal note Aff why don't you share with us where you attended college. I would like to know what academic institution produced a man of your tremendous intelligence since you happen to be the smartest person on this bored.

OK, lets go with the what, was it 200,000 or 300,000 deficit last year? That one materialized. I guess that doesn't matter either though, theres definitely not a trend there. But you're right, there's tons of money to be made balancing budgets in D-I. I mean look at all the schools that go there, money just falls off of trees. Its definitely not even more expensive to play in D-I. I'm sure that the added scholarships with little chance of being as competitive as you currently are will do wonders for your budget. I mean, those championship hopes every year in football have to be killing your attendance year after year. Going D-I with no post season, and being at a distinct recruiting disadvantage to your former rivals will really help with getting people into the stands. Great thinking.

Since it matters soooo much I attended the University of Illinois for my undergrad, and the University of Minnesota for my Graduate degree. Are you happy now? Ready to tell me that women's basketball at Illinios lost to Northern Colorado this year now? That mens basketball at minnesota keeps losing all of its decent instate recruits to Marquette? That Illinios football is terrible, and that Zook sucks? Congratulations, you still have a whopping deficit to work with.

[tnt]

Let's not forget that UND could have picked up a good chunk of change the last two years if they were already in DI by making the Frozen Four in hockey. Not sure exactly how much they would have gained, but it must be fairly substantial since it is talked about quite a bit. True, it can't be budgeted year after year, but it is revenue that NDSU could never hope to obtain. Keep arguing Aff, preoccupation is the sincerest form of flattery, and right now you are flattering the heck out of the University of North Dakota.

[Shawn-O]

Since it matters soooo much I attended the University of Illinois for my undergrad, and the University of Minnesota for my Graduate degree.

Do you live in the Twin Cities or in greater Minnesota? If so, I bet you were against the Twins new ballpark, huh. I have a point, I promise. Just wondering. If you'd like to take the discussion to e-mail, that would be fine too.

[Shawn-O]

OK, lets go with the what, was it 200,000 or 300,000 deficit last year? That one materialized. I guess that doesn't matter either though, theres definitely not a trend there. But you're right, there's tons of money to be made balancing budgets in D-I. I mean look at all the schools that go there, money just falls off of trees. Its definitely not even more expensive to play in D-I. I'm sure that the added scholarships with little chance of being as competitive as you currently are will do wonders for your budget. I mean, those championship hopes every year in football have to be killing your attendance year after year. Going D-I with no post season, and being at a distinct recruiting disadvantage to your former rivals will really help with getting people into the stands. Great thinking.

Since it matters soooo much I attended the University of Illinois for my undergrad, and the University of Minnesota for my Graduate degree. Are you happy now? Ready to tell me that women's basketball at Illinios lost to Northern Colorado this year now? That mens basketball at minnesota keeps losing all of its decent instate recruits to Marquette? That Illinios football is terrible, and that Zook sucks? Congratulations, you still have a whopping deficit to work with.

Subsidizing athletics for the greater good of the university. It's quite simple. Step into a Cub Foods store, they're probably running a special on Diet Coke. They might even be losing money on it, but it's generating foot traffic. Think of athletics as a loss leader for say, hundreds of schools across the country. No, we are not U of I or U of M. It's a different model.

[GeauxSioux]

Since it matters soooo much I attended the University of Illinois for my undergrad, and the University of Minnesota for my Graduate degree. Are you happy now? Ready to tell me that women's basketball at Illinios lost to Northern Colorado this year now? That mens basketball at minnesota keeps losing all of its decent instate recruits to Marquette? That Illinios football is terrible, and that Zook sucks? Congratulations, you still have a whopping deficit to work with.

From aff on October 1, 2004

Second, should you be comparing UND grand forks, and SDSU brookings, or SDSU Sioux Falls. Its forty minutes away, guys, I'm a student at SDSU and I go there at least once a week. I think everyone here already knows that sioux falls makes grand forks look like a dump. Besides that, Brookings definetly wouldn't be the worst in the big sky as cities go...

I think someone is a little nervous that SDSU will be forgotten about if/when UND announces the classification change to Division I.

[aff]

From aff on October 1, 2004

I think someone is a little nervous that SDSU will be forgotten about if/when UND announces the classification change to Division I.

Thats correct, I was attending SDSU in Fall of 2004, along with USDSU in Sioux Falls (hence the once a week travel to Sioux Falls). My degree is actually from USD though, so I don't think you can use the SDSU attendance against me too much. I'll give you a hint at what it is. Its a pretty common master's degree, you can get it from USD, and it starts with a B. It's business, you got me red handed.

And just as I thought, the conversation has moved from the deficit that UND has to my work life. Do you guys want to hear about where I work next? We should change the name of the forum to "Facts about aff". If you are really that curious, PM me, and I'll will tell you my life's story, as long as you do the same for me.

So, I heard UND might be moving D-I, huh? Don't they have a deficit right now.

[GeauxSioux]

Thats correct, I was attending SDSU in Fall of 2004, along with USDSU in Sioux Falls (hence the once a week travel to Sioux Falls). My degree is actually from USD though, so I don't think you can use the SDSU attendance against me too much. I'll give you a hint at what it is. Its a pretty common master's degree, you can get it from USD, and it starts with a B. It's business, you got me red handed.

And just as I thought, the conversation has moved from the deficit that UND has to my work life. Do you guys want to hear about where I work next? We should change the name of the forum to "Facts about aff". If you are really that curious, PM me, and I'll will tell you my life's story, as long as you do the same for me.

So, I heard UND might be moving D-I, huh? Don't they have a deficit right now.

Speaking of deficits SDSU from 2005.

Revenue $ 6,280,833

Expense $ 6,547,381

Looks red. Maybe SDSU should be in Division II.

[tnt]

You know I've seen so much creative accounting, that I don't know if I'd believe numbers any college put out for public consumption. Some may just choose to be honest about it. UND could very well have a deficit, but that could be true of a very large percentage of schools who just choose to sweep it under the rug and hide expenses here and there. I would be willing to bet that some universities have the same people working on their books that count attendance at events.

[aff]

Speaking of deficits SDSU from 2005.

Revenue $ 6,280,833

Expense $ 6,547,381

Looks red. Maybe SDSU should be in Division II.

Interesting you bring that up. I know very personally of an exchange that was made with a brookings company in 2005 that can acount for that deficit (not really a deficit though, as the SDSU alumni association payed the costs). Been to Frost arena or Coughlin Stadium lately. I think youll see what I am talking about.

[aff]

whats your source on that any way, i have been looking for that website.

[Shawn-O]

Thats correct, I was attending SDSU in Fall of 2004, along with USDSU in Sioux Falls (hence the once a week travel to Sioux Falls). My degree is actually from USD though, so I don't think you can use the SDSU attendance against me too much. I'll give you a hint at what it is. Its a pretty common master's degree, you can get it from USD, and it starts with a B. It's business, you got me red handed.

Your company spends money on R&D and marketing to generate revenue, right? That's all this is about.

[SiouxMeNow]

Orchestrated or not, it's certainly good entertainment for us down at Bisonville!

glad to entertain you...your palms were getting REALLY hairy! I thought you "left" loserville in a big huff?? not so much, huh?