Willam & Mary makes NCAA list

[PCM]

William & Mary is added to the NCAA's "hostile and abusive" list, according to this article from the Houston Chronicle.

William & Mary will be allowed to keep its "Tribe" nickname, but can't use it in NCAA championship competitions and also is barred from holding NCAA events.

"The good news is that we are forever going to be the Tribe," William & Mary spokesman William T. Walker said Tuesday.

The NCAA, in a letter to college president Gene Nichol, said it agreed that the nickname "Tribe" wasn't offensive, but combined with the logo showing two feathers "transforms that use from one associated with 'togetherness,' 'shared idealism,' and 'commitment' to stereotypical reference to Native Americans."

The NCAA said the school's use of the imagery "creates an environmental over which an institution may not have full control."

"Fans, opponents, and others can and will exhibit behaviors that indeed are hostile or abusive to Native Americans," the NCAA said.

"To say that what William and Mary does is not acceptable and what Florida State University does is acceptable boggles our minds," Walker said.

"Perhaps it is the absurdity of judgments like these that is causing the U.S. Congress to consider taking this matter out of the hands of the NCAA."

[Sioux-cia]

"...transforms that use from one associated with 'togetherness,' 'shared idealism,' and 'commitment' to stereotypical reference to Native Americans."

I think I'm going mad!! Everytime the NC$$ comes out with a new edict, I want to go outside and bang my head on a brick wall!!!

[Let'sGoHawks!]

"To say that what William and Mary does is not acceptable and what Florida State University does is acceptable boggles our minds," Walker said.

"Perhaps it is the absurdity of judgments like these that is causing the U.S. Congress to consider taking this matter out of the hands of the NCAA."

Sounds familiar eh?

[Shawn-O]

W&M Logo

First thoughts in my head:

1. This is madness.

2. These people must be stopped.

Edit: W&M has an excellent law school, as I recall.

[82SiouxGuy]

The NC$$ will continue to move ahead with their agenda and pick off schools one by one until something is done to stop them. I can only see 3 ways to stop them, the courts, Congress or by an uprising of the membership. I don't see the majority of the membership getting too worked up because they are starting with smaller schools and doing it in small groups. I was hesitant about legislation, but it may be the best answer in the long term to put them back in their place. But, eventually I believe that the issue will end up in court. I am glad that the AG and the UND legal departments are already working on the case.

[dagies]

At the time of pending legislation, it might not be a bad thing to have the NCAA adding schools to the nasty list.

[Shawn-O]

I wonder if this guy will weigh in on the issue? If this thing gets legs in the media, that would bode well for us, in my opinion.

[Sioux-cia]

I wonder if this guy will weigh in on the issue? If this thing gets legs in the media, that would bode well for us, in my opinion.

I came to William and Mary because as a Jewish person I wanted to explore the rich tapestry of Judaica that is Southern Virginia. Imagine my surprise when I realized

[PCM]

The NCAA said the school's use of the imagery "creates an environmental over which an institution may not have full control."

"Fans, opponents, and others can and will exhibit behaviors that indeed are hostile or abusive to Native Americans," the NCAA said.

The NCAA's continued reliance on this statement to justify its policy represents some of the most misguided, illogical thinking ever.

I read an article during March Madness about a couple of basketball players who drew the worst kind of hostility and abuse from the fans of opposing teams. Did the NCAA order the schools to leave those players at home? No.

We've all heard of instances in which black players had racial slurs hurled at them by opposing fans. We've all heard of sexist comments directed against women athletes by fans of opposing teams. Does the NCAA tell schools to leave their black players or female teams at home? Of course not.

It's silly to penalize one school for the behavior of other school's fans. If something needs to be done, the burden is on the school with the unruly fans to do something about them. Solving behavior issues related to racism at the schools of UND's oppenents in athletics is NOT our problem.

But for some reason, when it comes to American Indian nicknames and imagery, schools such UND and William & Mary are expected to shoulder the responsibility for the racist behavior of opposing teams' fans -- as if they have the power or authority to control any school's fans but their own. It puts UND in the position of having to control the "hostile and abusive" behavior of all the teams they play, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Edited May 17, 2006 by PCM

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Wow! the ncaa has taken it this far. The William & Mary "Tribe" with two feathers for a logo is offensive and abusive. Boston College can't be to far from getting banned then with their "Eagles" nickname and logo. And I agree with PCM, how the heck are we responsible for the other school's fans?

Just wait until the animal rites crowd gets the ncaa to ban all of the schools with animal nicknames and logos. After all, how many Gophers, Badgers, and who knows what have been killed and thrown on the playing area. Not to mention the "(fill in the animal) suck" chants.

[redwing77]

[Sioux-cia]

[The Sicatoka]

... two feathers "transforms that use from one associated with 'togetherness,' 'shared idealism,' and 'commitment' to stereotypical reference to Native Americans."

Two feathers can do all that?

[ScottM]

What color is the sky in Myles' world? To extrapolate from the two feathers that Indians are being treated or portrayed in a "hostile or abusive" manner defies all manner of logic, and common sense. Then again, he fits in with the rest of the PC crowd in academia.

[PCM]

More on the NCAA's William & Mary ruling from the Hampton Roads (VA) Daily Press:

Decision gives W&M half of what it wanted on mascot and logo

The NCAA rules William and Mary may keep its "Tribe" nickname but can't use American Indian feathers on its icon.

William T. Walker, associate vice president for public affairs, praised the National Collegiate Athletic Association for allowing the school to keep the Tribe name. But he disagreed with its ruling on the green-and-gold feathers.

"The good news is that we are forever going to be the Tribe," he said. "We won the most important point. What we object to is they won't allow us to use the feathers, but they let Florida State use violent imagery like braves throwing flaming spears, the war paint and that sort of thing."

Regional tribal leaders with whom the college consulted indicated that they didn't consider "Tribe" to be hostile and abusive.

[yekcoh]

Just wait until the animal rites crowd gets the ncaa to ban all of the schools with animal nicknames and logos. After all, how many Gophers, Badgers, and who knows what have been killed and thrown on the playing area. Not to mention the "(fill in the animal) suck" chants.

Maybe not the animal rites crowd, but people who practice Hinduism...

Reincarnation. Also known as

[dagies]

I would like to thank everyone who keeps their eyes open for these stories from around the country that pertain to this situation. I will name PCM, but there are others who have contributed as well.

If this goes to court, I think the lawyers fighting for UND should read through the threads on this website. Not for all the insightful opinions we throw up, but for the large collection of and value of the literature, and the highlighting of specific and important points within the literature that point out what a ridiculous position the NCAA has taken.

It's not the whole case, but it would seem to be valuable supporting information.

[airmail]

I would like to thank everyone who keeps their eyes open for these stories from around the country that pertain to this situation. I will name PCM, but there are others who have contributed as well.

My thanks as well. Many of you have invested an incredible amount of time on this subject for our benefit. It is certainly appreciated!

[Sioux-cia]

Here's the NC$$ press release re. W& M

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/k...mascot_rls.html

Scoll all the way to the bottom of the page to View All Press Releases.

The committee also recognizes the support from the Virginia tribal leaders but notes that while not all Native Americans are of the same mind with regard to the effect of such nicknames, mascots and imagery, a significant majority of the two million individuals who designate themselves as solely Native American concur that stereotyping of their culture and customs has contributed to a continuation of the hostile or abusive environment in which they have been placed for generations.

Again, the inconsistencies just boggle the mind! There are many Seminole Indians who opposed FSU's use of the name and logo, there are many non-Seminole Indians who oppose FSU's use of the name and logo. Given the above NC$$ statement, why were they exempt? Tribal leader approval doesn't matter for W & M but it does for FSU. I know this is beating a dead horse but I feel like someone at an awful accident, you don't want to look and see the horrific remains but you just can't not look!!

[airmail]

There are many Seminole Indians who opposed FSU's use of the name and logo, there are many non-Seminole Indians who oppose FSU's use of the name and logo. Given the above NC$$ statement, why were they exempt?

Because the Governor of Florida is the President's brother. Because FSU is a big time school bringing the NCAA big time dollars. Because FSU has the funding to make an endless nightmare for the NCAA. And on and on and on.

It's quite frustrating to see it happening, but the NCAA's wishy-washiness is going to payoff in the end. Every time they go off on an enforcement tangent, they're digging their hole deeper. More inconsistency from the NCAA, at least at this point, is a good thing.

[PCM]

William & Mary is planning to appeal the NCAA's decision, according to this Washington Post story.

Bill Walker , associate vice president for public affairs, said William & Mary felt compelled to fight for the right to display its logo. "It's hard for us to understand how the NCAA could approve Florida State's wild representation of an Indian on horseback with the flaming spear and be perturbed about feathers," Walker said.

[PCM]

The committee also recognizes the support from the Virginia tribal leaders but notes that while not all Native Americans are of the same mind with regard to the effect of such nicknames, mascots and imagery, a significant majority of the two million individuals who designate themselves as solely Native American concur that stereotyping of their culture and customs has contributed to a continuation of the hostile or abusive environment in which they have been placed for generations.

How it the world can the NCAA possibly pretend know what the majority of Native Americans in the U.S. thinks on this issue? Every national, statisticially valid poll conducted says the exact opposite. Even the Forum's poll of American Indians in North Dakota showed that 61 percent weren't offended by UND's nickname and logo. And then there's the fact that the NCAA's own policy has caused tribes from around the country to throw their support behind colleges using American Indian monikers and imagery.

It's yet another example of the NCAA making a grandiose, high-minded statement supporting what it wants to do with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

[ScottM]

a significant majority of the two million individuals who designate themselves as solely Native American concur that stereotyping of their culture and customs has contributed to a continuation of the hostile or abusive environment in which they have been placed for generations.

Where did this come from? The Myles Brand Institute of Anally Derived Statistics?

[hockeyfan]

I just had to add a word: The Myles Brand Institute of Anally Derived "Fabricated" Statistics. Wow, I didn't realize that the name and logo have been in existence for generations.

[JESUS,family,rutgers]

If the PC thought police continue, I am sure someone will go after my Scarlet Knights. I hope North Dakota doesn't cave in. It is about a lot more than sports--everday we are losing more of our freedom of speech.