What's good for college hockey?

[Shawn-O]

The money won't always be there. Guys like Parise, Vanek, Bochenski, Ryan Suter, etc... all would have lost big money had they stuck around in college. Same for the this years wave of departures.

Guys like Bayda, Lundbolm and countless others have the financial ability to go back and complete the college experience. I imagine they would be fairly popular around campus.

Agreed. Albert Einstein once said that "compound interest was the greatest wonder in the universe", or something along those lines. It's about time value of money, folks. Let's enjoy these guys while they're here.

[ScottM]

Agreed. Albert Einstein once said that "compound interest was the greatest wonder in the universe", or something along those lines. It's about time value of money, folks. Let's enjoy these guys while they're here.

Precisely. College will always be around, and I recall a few former Sioux who have returned to campus after their pro careers ended. If I was in this boat, I'd grab the money when you can, because you may not get that second chance, or your knee may decide to part company with you during a scrub game.

[Goon]

Precisely. College will always be around, and I recall a few former Sioux who have returned to campus after their pro careers ended. If I was in this boat, I'd grab the money when you can, because you may not get that second chance, or your knee may decide to part company with you during a scrub game.

Perry Berzin did that, after his pro career was over he called up the Calgary flames and said he you guys said you would pay for my college when my career was over in the NHL, so show me the money. I read that is how they got him to sign and leave college. I remember coming home to the 5th floor at Swanson Hall and Perry was studying with my R.A. and I was like thats _ _ _ _ _ studying on my floor. My RA introduced me. Yeah so they do come back to college. I can see Commie finishing his degree when he is done with the NHL, as well as Matt Green, both kids come from academic homes.

[SportsDoc]

What would you rather see? A player with great potential who plays up to that potential and leaves after two or three years? Or a player with great potential who stays all four years because he never lives up to his promise?

The fact that players with great potential are developing here and leaving early speaks volumes about the quality of UND's hockey program. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Well, your first comment must just smack in the face of players like Prpich. McMahon, Genoway, Massen, Fylling, Fuhur, Canady, Schneider and Matt Jones!

Second, who has left after two years lately that lived up to their potential? And remember when I started this thread it was about players leaving after one or two years, not three, so throw the three year players out.

Zajac's numbers are down this year. Murray was a total non-factor last year (granted, due to injury, but still a down year). Parise, the year before, had a great sophomore season so maybe he's legit to go. Though I thought he had a sub-par second half his freshman year. That makes one out of three at best.

What one other thing is glaringly missing as these guys leave early? An NCAA Championship. Isn't it what they all profess to come to UND for? Sometimes, when you're too busy looking out for yourself, that's when the Big Prize slips away.

[siouxtatoo42]

Well, your first comment must just smack in the face of players like Prpich. McMahon, Genoway, Massen, Fylling, Fuhur, Canady, Schneider and Matt Jones!

Second, who has left after two years lately that lived up to their potential? And remember when I started this thread it was about players leaving after one or two years, not three, so throw the three year players out.

Zajac's numbers are down this year. Murray was a total non-factor last year (granted, due to injury, but still a down year). Parise, the year before, had a great sophomore season so maybe he's legit to go. Though I thought he had a sub-par second half his freshman year. That makes one out of three at best.

What one other thing is glaringly missing as these guys leave early? An NCAA Championship. Isn't it what they all profess to come to UND for? Sometimes, when you're too busy looking out for yourself, that's when the Big Prize slips away.

i have a question...

why don't most fans realize that this whole experience for these gifted athletes is about as selfish as it gets? The one's with the most promise don't go to s&!t schools. 1st round picks (or potential 1st rounders) don't go to UAA, MTU, they go to the elite programs in their respective sports because they know there is a greater possibility for exposure. College is a stepping stone on the way to their dream. Most kids dream of being a pro athlete, but there are those few that know they are going to be. Granted nothing is guaranteed, but don't tell me that Zach and Travis and Kessel and Toews and the like don't know that they have the potential and the gift to be great. They say what the fans want to hear because that's what they are supposed to do. They are supposed to tell us that they are staying. If they are ready, and their families are ready, and their Pro team is ready for them, if the money is there they'd be stupid not to go. A National Championship might be what they strive for during the time they are here, but that's not their ultimate dream, and if the right people are telling them they can achieve their ultimate dream, who are we to bitch about them going after it.

[Goon]

why don't most fans realize that this whole experience for these gifted athletes is about as selfish as it gets? The one's with the most promise don't go to s&!t schools. 1st round picks (or potential 1st rounders) don't go to UAA, MTU, they go to the elite programs in their respective sports because they know there is a greater possibility for exposure. College is a stepping stone on the way to their dream. Most kids dream of being a pro athlete, but there are those few that know they are going to be. Granted nothing is guaranteed, but don't tell me that Zach and Travis and Kessel and Toews and the like don't know that they have the potential and the gift to be great. They say what the fans want to hear because that's what they are supposed to do. They are supposed to tell us that they are staying. If they are ready, and their families are ready, and their Pro team is ready for them, if the money is there they'd be stupid not to go. A National Championship might be what they strive for during the time they are here, but that's not their ultimate dream, and if the right people are telling them they can achieve their ultimate dream, who are we to bitch about them going after it.

That would be a compliment to our program.

[Southernmn]

[Sioux Hockey Fanatic]

Does anyone know the overall percent of college students that drop out, leave early, take a year off etc. I imagine that the percentage is fairly close to the number of hockey players that leave to play pro. Some come back, some won't. Getting a 4 year degree takes about 6 these days. Who can blame them for taking a once in a lifetime opportunity. UND will still be there when that is done. (and they will be able to pay for their own tuition.)

[7>4]

IMO, you don't win NCAA's with Freshman and Sophmores. You win them with Juniors and Seniors. That is why you need a good mix of solid 4 year guys like Panzer, Goehring, Fuhrer, Schneider, Jones, Porter, Fabian, Parise ect. ect. and the young superstars that will be gone after a year or two. UND has done a job job of this over the years.

I don't think anyone is arguing with the individual decisions that are made by these players in getting their payday and playing in the NHL. None of us would do any different.

The questions I have is this. Is UND a more successful program because the number of NC they have won or the number of players they send on to the NHL?? UND has sent a good number of players to the NHL over the last few years but the program has no trophies to show for it.

To me, this is the question raised by SportsDoc, not whether it is wrong for these talented players to leave early.

[Goon]

IMO, you don't win NCAA's with Freshman and Sophmores. You win them with Juniors and Seniors. That is why you need a good mix of solid 4 year guys like Panzer, Goehring, Fuhrer, Schneider, Jones, Porter, Fabian, Parise ect. ect. and the young superstars that will be gone after a year or two. UND has done a job job of this over the years.

Ok, I think one could have made that argument maybe 10 years ago, but that logic hasn't worked for a few years. If you look at the teams the last few years teams that have won the NCAA title with talented Freshman and Sophmore and role player Juniors and Seniors. I don't see number one draft choices staying all four years in the NCAA anymore especially with the CBA the way it is right now. The proof is Vanek, Parise, just to name a few. I think we will see the same thing with Stafford soon. Also the good players that are free agents are going to get signed and taken probably won't stay their 4 years of college hockey. Its kind of sad if you think about it. There are only two seniors with this years team.

Edited April 14, 2006 by Goon

[jimdahl]

Don't know where else to put this but, WOW!!!

Ovechkin reached 100 points yesterday!!!!

You can put that in any thread you like 102 after last night.

[Goon]

You can put that in any thread you like 102 after last night.

I thought I heard that Sid the Kid had 97 so he isn't too far behind Ovechkin, and Sid the Kid could be the first 100 point 18 year old.

Edited April 14, 2006 by Goon

[Smoggy]

I thought I heard that Sid the Kid had 97 so he isn't too far behind Ovechkin, and Sid the Kid could be the first 100 point 18 year old.

Sid got 4 last night (1g, 3a), has 3 games left I believe. Seems like the New NHL is working.

NBC carrying games again this weekend. Sounds like OLN will have a lot of the playoffs.

To stay on topic. The Sioux winning national championships is what's good for college hockey.

[Goon]

Sid got 4 last night (1g, 3a), has 3 games left I believe. Seems like the New NHL is working.

NBC carrying games again this weekend. Sounds like OLN will have a lot of the playoffs.

To stay on topic. The Sioux winning national championships is what's good for college hockey.

According to Gary Betman (sp) OLN is suppose to carry the Stanley Cup playoffs all the way tot he end.

I am hoping ESPN and ESPN2 get the rights to this again next season. All the anouncers on OLN are the former ESPN ones anyways. I don't know, it just don't think hockey fits on a hunting channel.

[Smoggy]

According to Gary Betman (sp) OLN is suppose to carry the Stanley Cup playoffs all the way tot he end.

I am hoping ESPN and ESPN2 get the rights to this again next season. All the anouncers on OLN are the former ESPN ones anyways. I don't know, it just don't think hockey fits on a hunting channel.

Don't forget that they have a 'partnership' with NBC. I think NBC gets the finals if they want. They don't pay the NHL anything, but I think profits are shared.

I'm not sure how long the deal with OLN is, but I doubt ESPN will ever pick the NHL back up. They love poker and streetball too much.

[xxx24jml]

Well, your first comment must just smack in the face of players like Prpich. McMahon, Genoway, Massen, Fylling, Fuhur, Canady, Schneider and Matt Jones!

Second, who has left after two years lately that lived up to their potential? And remember when I started this thread it was about players leaving after one or two years, not three, so throw the three year players out.

Zajac's numbers are down this year. Murray was a total non-factor last year (granted, due to injury, but still a down year). Parise, the year before, had a great sophomore season so maybe he's legit to go. Though I thought he had a sub-par second half his freshman year. That makes one out of three at best.

What one other thing is glaringly missing as these guys leave early? An NCAA Championship. Isn't it what they all profess to come to UND for? Sometimes, when you're too busy looking out for yourself, that's when the Big Prize slips away.

SportsDoc, I see so many flaws with this post that it almost leads me to believe that you don't what you are talking about, which flys in the face of other posts I have read from you.

First off, the "potential" which, I believe, PCM is referring to is the potential of a player to play at the next level. This "potential" is what the NHL teams base their draft on. Of the players you listed in your first paragraph, most were not even drafted. The highest draft choice you have listed is Matt Jones (3rd round), not 1st round, like the majority of players who leave after 1 or 2 years. And keep in mind that the position of defense does normally take longer to become proficient at because it is not as creative by it's very nature, more experience based.

Secondly, not all kids who play in college are brought in to their prospective college programs because they are going to be good professional players, in fact none of them are brought in to college for this reason. The kids are brought in because the college coaches are confident they will be able to fill a role within the college program. Sometimes these players are even asked to play different role in college than they were playing when they were recruited. A good example of this would be a Rory McMahon or Andrew Kozek. These kids were prolific scorers when recruited, but were asked to play a more defensiv/checking style early on in college.

Another role college coaches need to fill is scorers. When you have the opportunity to fill these roles with kids who are, or become, high NHL draft picks, the coaches are getting the best possible players to fill the scorer role. There is nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. After these kids do move on to the next level, the adjustment is much larger than most people can even imagine. The speed and size and strength of every player is dramatically increased over what they saw in college or before. That is why you see very few kids able to step from college to the NHL All Star game. The teams want the kids in their farm system so they can better control the kids development. Give many of these kids a couple NHL seasons before you judge them.

Let me move on to Travis Zajac, as you did. You claim his "numbers are down this year". I can only assume you are comparing to last year..... GP G A TP PIM

2004-05 U. of North Dakota NCAA 43 17 19 36 16

2005-06 U. of North Dakota NCAA 45 17 27 44 20

Maybe I just don't get it....

Finally, in regards to winning a National Championship. The one thing that many people seem to forget is that only one team can do it every year! It is not that easy, you need many thing to fall in your favor, many, such as puck luck and injuries, you can not control.

Sorry for the long-winded rant but I needed to get it off my chest.

[PCM]

Well, your first comment must just smack in the face of players like Prpich. McMahon, Genoway, Massen, Fylling, Fuhur, Canady, Schneider and Matt Jones!

Which one of them was a high NHL draft choice? Of that group, the only one I'm aware of who had the opportunity to leave early was Jones after his junior year. He set a great example by playing all four years at UND.

Would it be nice if more players followed Jones' example? Certainly. Is it realistic to expect it? No.

Second, who has left after two years lately that lived up to their potential?

Zach Parise and Travis Roche are two that come to mind.

Zajac's numbers are down this year.

They are? He had 39 points as a freshman and 47 points this season. A 50-point season is considered exceptional for a junior or a senior. Zajac was just three points away from that as a sophomore.

Also, I don't think you can simply look at a player's stats and decide whether he's ready to move on to the next level. Zajac was perhaps the best two-way player on the team. He played on the penalty kill and the power play, where he excelled.

Besides, it's not up to you or me or Dave Hakstol to decide if a player is ready to leave. It's up to the team that drafted the player or the team that wants a player to sign a free-agent contract. If the team wants the player badly enough and offers the player a deal he can't refuse, who are we to say he shouldn't go?

Murray was a total non-factor last year (granted, due to injury, but still a down year).

Murray was a special case.

What one other thing is glaringly missing as these guys leave early? An NCAA Championship. Isn't it what they all profess to come to UND for? Sometimes, when you're too busy looking out for yourself, that's when the Big Prize slips away.

Playing in the NHL is the goal that all hockey players strive to attain. Given the fact that their time as professional athletes is limited, why shouldn't any college player jump to the pros if the opportunity presents itself and the deal is right?

[Siouxman]

Since the word "greed" has come up, let's put it on the other foot. We as fans are "greedy." We want the good players to stick around for another year, because we know they will be even better. It increases the odds of winning the McNaughton Cup, the Broadmoor, and yes, even the Frozen Four. Why? Some just because they want to see better hockey. Most of us, well--let's admit it-- so we can say 8>5, 9>5, we are better than the Gophers, Badgers, Wolverines, Denver, etc. It makes us feel good when we think the Sioux are better than the others.

We get disappointed, sad, upset when players go pro early because we feel that we have lost something. We, the fans of the Sioux, have been entertained, spoiled rotten, and treated to the best of college hockey. And we want more. Sounds like greed to me.

[dagies]

Since the word "greed" has come up, let's put it on the other foot. We as fans are "greedy." We want the good players to stick around for another year, because we know they will be even better. It increases the odds of winning the McNaughton Cup, the Broadmoor, and yes, even the Frozen Four. Why? Some just because they want to see better hockey. Most of us, well--let's admit it-- so we can say 8>5, 9>5, we are better than the Gophers, Badgers, Wolverines, Denver, etc. It makes us feel good when we think the Sioux are better than the others.

We get disappointed, sad, upset when players go pro early because we feel that we have lost something. We, the fans of the Sioux, have been entertained, spoiled rotten, and treated to the best of college hockey. And we want more. Sounds like greed to me.

Good observation, Siouxman.